reported Timing Issue

[Sharpe_95]

@ MoDs - please could you move this to the bug thread?

 

Guys I dont know if this is a bug or as planned so I have put it here first to test what people think.

 

But I cant help but think it may have knock on effects for the Data Link and particularly for (when we get it) the ToT/Carret.

 

I noticed today when I flew with a sqn buddy (from a pause start mission that I was hosting), we got into the pit, un-paused, then about 1-2 minutes of mission time elapsed. When the engine started and applied power to the DED (and other aircraft functions), the clock set itself to 0800 local time.

 

HOWEVER: The mission starts at exactly 08.00 local time, so after a minute or two getting the engine going, the time simply could not have been 08.00.

 

Further, when I cross checked the time with my Sqn buddy (also flying an F16 and joined the mission at the exact same time as me), we had different times (separated by about 15-25 seconds or so, I cant remember the exact error margin).

 

Is this correct? I cant help but think it really cant be right? If two aircraft have different times on thier clock, how are we going to fly to ToTs correctly. If I start my jet and it thinks its 08:02:30 and another guys starts up a bit slower or comes in a little later and his jet thinks its 08:04:15 then or ToT will never sync or work correctly if we are flying the same flight path to the 'same' ToT.

 

I also wonder if this has a knock on impact with the Data Link as this is synced by time. If jets are showing the wrong times, will it/can it be working correctly?

 

Just pondering guys, I might be wrong. Does anyone else see this behaviour? Is it a bug/error?

 

-S

Edited April 21, 2020 by Sharpe_95

[Dispatch]

Also noticed time difference between sqd members last flight.

 

 

WIP for the ToT/Carret and Time HACK page I would think

Edited April 21, 2020 by Dispatch

[Sharpe_95]

Also noticed time difference between sqd members last flight.

 

 

WIP for the ToT/Carret and Time HACK page I would think

 

Might this have something to do with the Data Link inconsistency?

 

-S

Edited April 22, 2020 by Sharpe_95

[Dispatch]

That too

[Frederf]

Is this correct?

Yup that's how the real airplane works. It starts counting the clock from the last saved time when the airplane was previously shut down.

 

Every time the airplane is started you have to go to the DED TIME page and adjust the clock or hack time as needed. The mechanical clock on the right auxiliary panel should be accurate and runs when the airplane is parked so use that as reference.

 

Normal practice is to use zulu time reference in the F-16.

[BIGNEWY]

This is my understanding also, time is set manually after a cold start.

 

With a hot / air start DCS will us mission time.

[Sharpe_95]

Yup that's how the real airplane works. It starts counting the clock from the last saved time when the airplane was previously shut down.

 

Every time the airplane is started you have to go to the DED TIME page and adjust the clock or hack time as needed. The mechanical clock on the right auxiliary panel should be accurate and runs when the airplane is parked so use that as reference.

 

Normal practice is to use zulu time reference in the F-16.

 

Hi Fredef,

Thanks for the info. Can I ask 3 questions and direct one point at the Devs/Newy.

 

Fredef: Any thoughts on why this is so in the F16 but not the A10c or the FA18c - they are broadly of the same era? How does the F16 reconcile its time (manually, and likely with some degree of inaccuracy) with the time that I assume the GPS equipment needs to use? How comes the aircraft does not take its system time data (ie, the one displayed in the DED) from the on board GPS equipment once it is turned on? Surely that seems like something of a limitation?

 

Newy/Dev team: Please be aware, I have made a track and the analogue clock is also not correct to the sim time. I think it only comes alive at the point the battery in the jet is turned on? This does not stack up with Frederfs point about using the analogue clock to set the time but it is definitely not reading the same as the in game time

 

-S

F16 System Time Test.trk

Edited April 22, 2020 by Sharpe_95

[BIGNEWY]

Thanks for the track, I have checked with the team.

 

As far as we know this is correct, System time in DED needs to be done manually from cold start.

 

And analogue clock isn't wind up, it has a power source through electrical system.

 

If we can find data to suggest otherwise we will take a look again.

[Sharpe_95]

Thanks for the track, I have checked with the team.

 

As far as we know this is correct, System time in DED needs to be done manually from cold start.

 

And analogue clock isn't wind up, it has a power source through electrical system.

 

If we can find data to suggest otherwise we will take a look again.

 

Thanks Newy

[=Panther=]

Thanks for the track, I have checked with the team.

 

As far as we know this is correct, System time in DED needs to be done manually from cold start.

 

And analogue clock isn't wind up, it has a power source through electrical system.

 

If we can find data to suggest otherwise we will take a look again.

 

Analogue clock as in the one on the right auxiliary console?

 

The clock, located on the right auxiliary console, is an 8-day, manually wound clock with provisions for an elapsed time indication up to 60 minutes.

[MadCat1381]

From the DCS F-16 EA guide about the clock:

 

"Clock

The clock is an 8-day, manually wound clock with a provision for an elapsed time of up to 60 minutes."

 

And by the way. The clock looks like an A13A clock. Wich was developed on a US military request for proposal and flew in alot of aircrafts since the 1960s. It's still build today.

 

Edit: Panther was faster.

[Frederf]

Hi Fredef,

Thanks for the info. Can I ask 3 questions and direct one point at the Devs/Newy.

 

Fredef: Any thoughts on why this is so in the F16 but not the A10c or the FA18c - they are broadly of the same era? How does the F16 reconcile its time (manually, and likely with some degree of inaccuracy) with the time that I assume the GPS equipment needs to use? How comes the aircraft does not take its system time data (ie, the one displayed in the DED) from the on board GPS equipment once it is turned on? Surely that seems like something of a limitation?

 

Newy/Dev team: Please be aware, I have made a track and the analogue clock is also not correct to the sim time. I think it only comes alive at the point the battery in the jet is turned on? This does not stack up with Frederfs point about using the analogue clock to set the time but it is definitely not reading the same as the in game time

 

-S

Ah, sorry. Yes F-16 can sync system time to GPS time if and when available. Earlier F-16 did not have GPS. GPS-system time varies based on specific F-16 model. If this model has GPS for system time source available specifically I don't know. On initialization GPS is time source unless deselected (invalid, manual deselection, override system time value).

 

I believe GPS time on bus was in the ~2000s when FCC changed to MMC and possibly on EGI. I would guess that DCS variant has this since it handles JDAM.

[Bouli306]

Ah, sorry. Yes F-16 can sync system time to GPS time if and when available. Earlier F-16 did not have GPS. GPS-system time varies based on specific F-16 model. If this model has GPS for system time source available specifically I don't know. On initialization GPS is time source unless deselected (invalid, manual deselection, override system time value).

 

I believe GPS time on bus was in the ~2000s when FCC changed to MMC and possibly on EGI. I would guess that DCS variant has this since it handles JDAM.

 

The Block 50 in DCS does not have an EGI installed. If it was installed the GPS switch would be removed. Also the Alignment would take 4 minutes in stead off 8. This Viper has an INU with separate GPS. But i still think time should be GPS time.

[BIGNEWY]

Thanks for the information.

 

I will see if I can find more proof and speak to the team about it.

[TEOMOOSE]

The first Block 50 F-16 was delivered in late 1991; the aircraft is equipped with improved GPS/INS, and can carry a further batch of advanced missiles: the AGM-88 HARM missile, JDAM, JSOW and WCMD.

To my understanding the current F-16 in Dcs Wolrd does not have GPS.

[Dee-Jay]

What Frederf and Bouli describes is standard for most (if not all) aircraf using and hybridised INS/IRS/EGI.

 

TIME system is provided (by default) by GPS, is always UTC and can be overridden in case of GPS loss/drift.

[TEOMOOSE]

I understand, but. Such weapons like JDAM etc. require gps to employ.

[MadCat1381]

To my understanding the current F-16 in Dcs Wolrd does not have GPS.

 

What leads you to think this?

[Frederf]

What Frederf and Bouli describes is standard for most (if not all) aircraf using and hybridised INS/IRS/EGI.

 

TIME system is provided (by default) by GPS, is always UTC and can be overridden in case of GPS loss/drift.

System time DED display in MLU M2 document, Figure 1-7 is accurate or semi-accurate to DCS variant?

[krapouk]

Well well well.

 

So https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/viper/ says that we will have GPS-guided bombs, so clearly JDAM (any other GPS typed bomb in view ??)

 

JDAM needs use of GPS, so this F-16C need to be GPS equiped.

 

Then having GPS, the system time must be synchonised automaticaly with it, unless set otherwise manually.

 

Unless the https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/viper/ page is inaccurate, wich would be another problem

Edited July 5, 2020 by krapouk

[Terzi]

The time shown on the DED page does not match the time of the mission by default. Manual setting is doable but one cannot ensure synchronization with multiple clients. The best way is to match the aircraft time with mission time during the startup.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Terzi
Change the title with respect to user testing/feedback

[BIGNEWY]

I will check with the team I believe it is meant to be zulu time

[Florence201]

I’ve seen disparity between mission and DED times. 

[Terzi]

7 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

I will check with the team I believe it is meant to be zulu time

Yes you are right. I was starting 15:00 in Syria and get 12:00 always.

[BIGNEWY]

1 minute ago, Terzi said:

Yes you are right. I was starting 15:00 in Syria and get 12:00 always.

Ok thank you, it is correct as is, the clocks should be set to zulu and can be adjusted manually if required.