Hornet Roadmap Discussion

[headbreaker_ger]

Greetings,

 

First of all, I got one major issue with the roadmap and to be honest my fist thinking was "What the **** is wrong with you?"

 

"DCS: F/A-18C Out of Early Access Features" I'm sorry but for me that's simple not right. Out of EA is in my understanding, the Time the model is nearly feature finished.

 

I don't understand, why ED always chose the way, where you can see the Shitstorm coming.

 

I mean there are announced features and improvements with are core-systems in my understanding, the only reason to say its out of EA is, so they can say it's no more EA.

 

And with that many players will fear they never complete the work, like in the German WW2 Warbirds with the still missing Radio-Navigation-Beacon ,.....

 

Let the F/A18 in EA for 21 and make the Module Feature-Complete, to the last System, don't put it half ready in the store like it's a finished module.

 

And Yes I know Out of Early is not the definition of "Finished" but that's how many players understand that.

 

In the Improvements-List are so many teased things we are waiting for,... for me also the ATFLIR is a thing,...

 

I think its important, to make one step at a time, but do it right,.. let the FA18 in EA and complete the work,... and after the Module is Complete, you can bring "Improvements" but Improvements ≠ Features.

 

One thing I really want much higher on the List and for me is a CORE-System = INS / GPS full simulation and alignment (carrier and ground) & Possibility to use Grid-Coords.

 

There are no hard feelings on my side but I'm true disappointed I have to say,

 

The most realistic model of the F/A-18C imaginable, down to each bolt and flake of paint, animated controls surfaces, lights, damage model, and landing gear.

Detailed simulation of the Hornet's many sub-systems like engines, fuel, electrical, hydraulic, radios, lighting, emergency, and many, many more. Although features like "auto start" are available, the sense of accomplishment cannot be overstated after learning to operate this state-of-the-art machine.

[Phantom453]

Thanks Wags for the draft roadmap and the opportunity to disgusts it.

 

I too, like many here, am confused (and a little disappointed) by your usage and changes to what is in/ out of Early Access/ Feature Complete etc. Although Nick's comments make it a little clearer.

 

However, I don't really care/ see the point any more in arguing what is EA, what is Feature Complete etc.. I just see your list for 2020 and 2021 as one list of what needs to be completed on the Hornet.

 

What I would expect/ hope for though, is that all these tasks will continue until completion with ED's full vigor and commitment, with no compromise to the accuracy and fidelity of these features.

 

That then brings us to priority. I too, like many here would like to see a focus first on aircraft systems, and flight model. In particular, with the the options/ mission card and ATFLIR included here. New weapons can go further down the list IMHO (acknowledging you still have to balance your staff resources, workload and specialties across these tasks).

 

Thanks for allowing us some input. Looking forward to your thoughts.

[robgraham]

I posted on reddit to nick my actual main thought, but hoenstly the items on the ORIGINAL pre-order sales page need to be completed for it to be termed 'Out of Early Access' .. you guys might have changed it's page (and the vipers etc) to no longer have those lists but we brought it with said list. To move the 'goal posts' after the point of sale is just wrong on soo many levels.

 

As I said in the response to Nick, I get it.. some of those features need core DCS World update to be finished, in that case say as much and explain it properly or don't remove it out of EA until those items are done.

 

But moving the 'goal posts' just plain wrong :(

[Kazius]

I posted on reddit to nick my actual main thought, but hoenstly the items on the ORIGINAL pre-order sales page need to be completed for it to be termed 'Out of Early Access' .. you guys might have changed it's page (and the vipers etc) to no longer have those lists but we brought it with said list. To move the 'goal posts' after the point of sale is just wrong on soo many levels.

 

As I said in the response to Nick, I get it.. some of those features need core DCS World update to be finished, in that case say as much and explain it properly or don't remove it out of EA until those items are done.

 

But moving the 'goal posts' just plain wrong :(

 

Partially agree about your comment on keeping it termed early access until all original listed functions are complete. But to be honest, the hornet will get hose features weather it is termed early access or not. Saying those features have to be done before EA term is removed doesn't mean the development will get completed any faster and rather means EA could run well into 2021 instead. I guess my point is we just have to be patient and enjoy the features that are already there. I do however wish a few features had been implemented earlier on, many are now there but were added so late.

 

Wags posted a video of the Walleye II back in October 2019 and I can't find it in game still. These are odd things that should also be addressed and they are not mentioned on his roadmap.

 

[BIGNEWY]

 

Wags posted a video of the Walleye II back in October 2019 and I can't find it in game still. These are odd things that should also be addressed and they are not mentioned on his roadmap.

 

 

Walleye is in already, you should see a already made mission for it in the list, and if you are looking for it in the rearm menu check stations 2 and 8 and bombs you should see AGM-62

 

Hope that helps

 

thanks

[Kazius]

Walleye is in already, you should see a already made mission for it in the list, and if you are looking for it in the rearm menu check stations 2 and 8 and bombs you should see AGM-62

 

Hope that helps

 

thanks

 

ok, found the mission but game crashes every time I try it. Will try running a repair. Just reinstalled DCS like 3 days ago though.

[kaoqumba]

Has TA mode in air to ground radar been deleted? I can't see it.

[hanab]

I think ED will be unable to deliver all of 17 items planned in 2020.

 

Why ?

 

Because it was still any update since december 2019 on hornet !!!

 

There is only to see the catastrophic state of beta ....

[ФрогФут]

If features for 21 are understandable (with a couple of exclusions), rhen 20 plans raise some questions :

1) If INS simulation is planed only for 21, then it will have unfair advantage in terms of startup time vs other aircraft (A-10 and F-16 take few minutes to align). Maybe at least extend the current alignment time without full modeling as a temporary measure?

2)F-18 uses radar ranging in almost every case for ag. Does it mean, that of release it will feature only placeholder CCIP, AUTO sight, that works fine in every situation?

3) p. 17 features fm issues, which, in my opinion, are not as important, as fuel consumption (it is up to 25% less, than it should be on full ab, because fuel flow does not depend on the speed in the sim or 20+g at carrier touch with vs of 1000 fpm due to gear model, or excessive turn rate capabilities with low fuel. Maybe they are in the others section, but it is not obvious from the text.

4) In my opinion fa-18 now has the arsenal for any mission and the goal for RELEASE should be making every page or function for current systems and weapons (planned for them, of course) , not adding complex (as it is mentiond in the list) slam-er. Pages like bit are made, but actually are placeholders, as they cannot be used by pilot. It is not obvious from the text, which pages and systems get their final look at release. All those features are great and should be made, but in my opinion as a support to keep interest for the great plane module!

5) I could not see, if backup and mechanical controls will be implemented at all. It is important feature of the c

Hornet and very different feel of the aircraft. Currently loss of 2 engines mean good by few and good bye plane.

Edited April 23, 2020 by ФрогФут

[QuiGon]

I'm a simple guy: I'm happy as long as there is progess :)

[antonkr]

If you can't make a deadline, just retroactively change what you promised by the deadline. Classic ED. There is zero reason an incomplete module should be considered "complete" or out of early access. It makes no sense.

[hanab]

And to answer to Mr Grey question : "for someone who has owned the F18 for I imagine quite some time as you intimate, would it be wrong for me to imagine that you derived no pleasure nor value therefrom? "

 

YES during one year after initial release because there was many features to try but now it is totaly NO because there has been no update for 4 months !! impossible to go further

[LastRifleRound]

I will echo what most people are saying here. That list of features to be added next year is far too comprehensive to be considered ok to be left out at release.

 

However, on the good side, I like the roadmap itself. More complex first is the way to go, especially with the remaining items you have. I like the list of things planned to come out in 2020 vs. 2021 (though I thought we already had AGR mode when we went CCIP?). I love that a lot of those things are sooner than I thought.

 

Definitely agree to get the AG Radar done first. A lot of other modules waiting on that and many people excited to finally see it.

 

Look, we knew this whole thing wasn't getting done in 2020. It's ok as long as steady progress is constantly being made. Admitting the Viper was holding things up and giving us an honest roadmap was a great move. Seeing that makes me actually believe you've made some of the key changes necessary to move forward at a more reasonable pace.

 

Just stop calling the stuff in 2021 "improvements". The Hornet will still be in early access without them, no matter what syntax you use, and that's ok.

[NineLine]

The planes INS is considered an improvement? Man talk about having a bad two weeks.

 

We currently have a functioning INS included with the Hornet, what the improvement is, is the simulation of INS alignment, making it more realistic and more of a simulation. So, yes in this case, its an improvement to an already existing system that we want to make better. Hope that makes sense, thanks!

[hanab]

We currently have a functioning INS included with the Hornet, what the improvement is, is the simulation of INS alignment, making it more realistic and more of a simulation. So, yes in this case, its an improvement to an already existing system that we want to make better. Hope that makes sense, thanks!

 

and why not put it back as before? When hornet came out the stopwatch was taking longer than it is now. It would be more realistic to put 4 minutes rather than 30 seconds

[VirusAM]

Dear Community and Hornet Pilots,

 

Today I would like to discuss with you our DCS: F/A-18C Hornet roadmap. We look forward to working with you in a constructive and efficient manner to create an achievable and transparent roadmap that covers the features to be delivered by the end of 2020 that will bring the Hornet out of Early Access.

 

I have also included the features that we plan to work on in 2021 to sustain the Hornet after Early Access completion.

 

DCS: F/A-18C Out of Early Access Features:

 

1. Completion of the Litening Targeting Pod (to be delivered with next update)

2. Dynamic launch zone, AUTO mode for JDAM (to be delivered with next update)

3. AG radar. MAP + Fixed Target Track (FTT) (to be delivered with next update)

4. SLAM air-to-surface missile (to be delivered in next update)

5. [ complex ] AG radar. EXP modes (1-2-3), GMT and GMTT modes, and SEA search mode

6. [ difficult ] Azimuth / Elevation air-to-air radar mode with AUTO IFF modes

7. [ difficult ] Coupled autopilot modes

8. [ difficult ] ACLS mode

9. [ difficult ] Datalink symbols, EW symbols, and AG mode for JHMCS

10. [ normal ] Correct possible flare number loaded

11. [ normal ] ASPJ ECM jammer

12. [ normal ] Adjust countermeasure programs when on ground

13. [ normal ] Mark points

14. [ normal ] Offset waypoints

15. [ difficult ] SLAM-ER air-to-surface missile

16. [ difficult ] Harpoon, SEA radar directed mode (FTT)

17. [ iterations during 2020 until completed] Update flight model for ground effect, takeoff pitch effects, auto-pilot based on FPM, touch and go handling, and other remaining flight model issues

 

Complex - 12-20 weeks of development

Difficult - 4-8 weeks of development

Normal - 2-3 weeks of development

 

DCS: F/A-18C Hornet Improvements in 2021:

 

1. Jamming targets not displayed on radar, should be in dugout

2. Aircraft Setup Card in Options

3. Mission Card for 60 waypoints with properties (Sequence 1, 2, 3, PP, PB, Initial, etc.)

4. RWS RAID air-to-air radar sub-mode missing

5. Radar SPOT mode

6. AG radar interleaved mode (SEA and GMT)

7. AG radar. AGR (air to ground ranging) mode

8. HARM Pre-Briefed mode

9. GBU-32 JDAM

10. Select AA and AG on ground

11. TALD decoy

12. AIM-7P

13. Mk-77 firebomb

14. GBU-24 Paveway III LGB

15. IN LAR cue is missing

16. The missing function of WIDE radar auto acquisition mode, cannot slew it

17. UFC BU page

18. Flight member TGT ground target SA page symbol missing

19. Fuel BIT (FLBIT) Page

20. MUMI Page

21. Gun sparks at night

22. INS / GPS full simulation and alignment (carrier and ground)

23. LOFT modes, ARM, JPF, and other JDAM and JSOW remaining functions

24. BDU-45 Training Bomb

25. GEN-X decoy

26. S/A and AUTO countermeasure modes

27. ATFLIR

 

We decided to first focus on the most difficult features to develop and finish them this year. This, however, will slow down our F-16C Viper development efforts. However, F-16C will continue to be updated in 2020, and it will receive updates to the targeting pod, updates for HUD and HSD, steerpoint creation, and the addition of more weapons.

 

We are open and look forward to your comments and requests. Let’s discuss it and finalize the plan!

 

Sincerely,

The Eagle Dynamics Team

 

 

 

I refrained from posting here because i wanted to thing much to what to write..and now here i am here are my two cents.

 

 

About the things that will be released this year these are the one that matter most to me (i didn't include the things that Wags stated as coming in the next update because they are complete)

 

8. [ difficult ] ACLS mode

11. [ normal ] ASPJ ECM jammer

12. [ normal ] Adjust countermeasure programs when on ground

13. [ normal ] Mark points

14. [ normal ] Offset waypoints

 

 

Here the one most important for me in the 2021 list

 

2. Aircraft Setup Card in Options

3. Mission Card for 60 waypoints with properties (Sequence 1, 2, 3, PP, PB, Initial, etc.)

8. HARM Pre-Briefed mode

11. TALD decoy

22. INS / GPS full simulation and alignment (carrier and ground)

25. GEN-X decoy

26. S/A and AUTO countermeasure modes

 

One thing that many pointed out here is that many HOTAS functions are not in the simulation right now, so i hope these will be added with top priority, as some of them (fast selecting radar and SA page for example) are really important.

 

In my humble opinion many of the features in 2021 list should be given more importance

For example the DATA cartridge could be a game changer and i don't think its so difficult to do.

Also the INS/GPS alignment should be a top priority. I mean i don't think we can have a study level sim called this way without the proper working of one of the main aircraft systems. But we could also be ok if for now just the aligment time would be revised.

Another top priority feature for a mission ready Hornet are the S/A and auto modes for Contermeaseures.

 

About the ATFLIR, i know that for many its important to have, but having a fully completed LITENING, i thing we can wait for its completion.

 

 

I think that some of these features are really important, and we as mature customers and DCS lovers would need to help ED steer in the right direction for us and for them.

Of course everyone of us will have its own opinion so i am not pretending that my wishes should be taken as gold, but we need to find a way to summarize and make things easy for ED. Maybe we could use a polling site and each one of us could vote is own priority and then ED should study the data to summarize it

Edited April 23, 2020 by VirusAM

[VirusAM]

I'm a simple guy: I'm happy as long as there is progess :)

 

Now that's the right mood.

Im a with you....

of course i like all the whistle and bells i can have....but patience is a virtuee and today is a great time for flight sims

[VirusAM]

A10C was feature complete and 'released' within about 5 months. No new systems/weapons were added during that time, apart from tweaks. As far as I recall.

 

It was essentially complete, functionality wise, at release.

 

You are right, but honestly the Hornet is a very different beast, much more complex systems.

They also had to create from scratch a lot of underlying technologies.

[SkaldDKO]

If features for 21 are understandable (with a couple of exclusions), rhen 20 plans raise some questions :

1) If INS simulation is planed only for 21, then it will have unfair advantage in terms of startup

 

and why not put it back as before? When hornet came out the stopwatch was taking longer than it is now. It would be more realistic to put 4 minutes rather than 30 seconds

 

Agree with that. Alignment time should be reviewed before 2021

 

 

Also A10C has implemented semi and auto countermeasure mods, are Hornet ones such different so they can not be retrofitted?

Edited April 23, 2020 by SkaldDKO

[Speacy]

it is totaly NO because there has been no update for 4 months !! impossible to go further

Especially as it's not 1st time, was same past year, you divide your workforce on too many projects at same time. And there is no doubt money is the problem origin and purpose.

Yes there is covid, yes we understand it's a good reason for objectives delays, the problem is it's same on normal time, too many new products with beautiful pre release trailers and once released on early access its "full brake" and push another product with same process.

It's not correct for customers. No communication can erase that, its fact, if your business model is like that well, but please, be honest and admit it.

At least we know what we're buying and cannot complain. It this case off course i would not have bought F-18C as far was finished but that even clear and honest.

[Gierasimov]

Feedback on the roadmap

 

Hi all,

Wags, thank you for posting this roadmap, adds a lot to communication transparency and setting out expectations.

 

I am pleasantly surprised that many improvement are set to be delivered with the next update.

 

Early Access plan looks good and hopefully is achievable within reminder of this year given the crazy situation we are all in currently

 

Night sparks from the gun is a nice addition from SFX standpoint, while multitude of things to come in 2021 seem to add excellent quality to this module.

 

Well done ED.

[imacken]

I know it's relatively non-important, but I do find it strange that bugs like the AIM shoot cue not working consistently is never mentioned. In fact, considering it was marked as REPORTED over a year ago, I'm quite surprised it hasn't been fixed yet.

[blklobo]

And bug fixing in 2022. Bug is everywhere.

 

나의 SM-G930S 의 Tapatalk에서 보냄

[Flаnker]

Wags, thank you for posting this roadmap!

 

I would like to get first place SLAM-ER, AG mode for JHMCS and AG radar. EXP modes (1-2-3), GMT and GMTT modes, and SEA search mode

Edited April 23, 2020 by Flаnker

[hanab]

Any idea when we will be able to enter GRID coords like we get from JTAC all the time?

 

Now that the list of features to be delivered during Early Access has been cut like this I would like to refund my Hornet.

 

+1