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Roll axis. Realism?


DmitriKozlowsky

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I have been flying it a little these days, and along with roll behavior, lots of things feel odd, and quite different from how it was back when the module was released.

 

I do wonder the same too: if that is really how CEII flies. Feels like an "on rails" FBW jet right now.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I haven’t flown the real airplane, but I have flown enough different types to notice there must be some things missing from the flight model. The big standout to me is there seems to be little to no torque, p-factor, and spiraling slipstream effects. I could literally fly it under power to near a stall and the ball would stay centered with no rudder input.

 

It was just too easy to fly for a short tail wheel.

 

I just bought it, and the first thing I checked after flying it was to see if the rudder cheat was enabled, it it wasn’t...... I still think it’s fun and don’t regret buying it. Just a little surprised by how much easier it is to fly than any of the tail wheels I’ve flown.

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I haven’t flown the real airplane, but I have flown enough different types to notice there must be some things missing from the flight model. The big standout to me is there seems to be little to no torque, p-factor, and spiraling slipstream effects. I could literally fly it under power to near a stall and the ball would stay centered with no rudder input.

 

It was just too easy to fly for a short tail wheel.

 

I just bought it, and the first thing I checked after flying it was to see if the rudder cheat was enabled, it it wasn’t...... I still think it’s fun and don’t regret buying it. Just a little surprised by how much easier it is to fly than any of the tail wheels I’ve flown.

 

You have pretty much summed it up for me. Apart from I do regret buying it, it has had little to no updates and it is far from being like any aircraft I've flown. It is like fly by wire or something. I do wonder if they aren't able to code as well as Ed with the ww2 modules and yak, certainly feels like it's missing some.

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The Yak-52 is similar unrealistic. You don't need rudder during a loop, close to the stall etc... Tried the Fw190 and that one isn't convincing either, neither on ground nor in flight.

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While, the yak 52 has its flight model issues (reverse airflow but mostly inverted stall problem), it is in no way comparable to what the Christen Eagle offers.

The Yak 52 displays a mostly believable and coherent flight and ground model. It's engine dynamics are on point, and while being a relatively low perfomance airplane, it does what it's supposed to do nicely.

I also disagree with you BBRZ, to me, the yaw is quite well modeled. During loops, the yaw corrections for most propeller aircrafts are very minimal. I think the Yak 52 FM is adequately displaying it.

 

To me this is quite the opposite to the Christen Eagle. To me, the Christen eagle displays some significant errors in its engine modeling (the only prop airplane in dcs that is nonsense). The ground handling is Meh and to top it off, the flight model displays some big flaws. Like...The roll behaviour (any pitch correction during a continuous roll feels like a snap but it isn't. there is some weird acceleration/slow roll rate); at low airspeed the engine effects are overpowering the aircraft and the snapp roll/ tumble behaviour is odd at best. To me there aren't many things to enjoy with this christen eagle at the moment.

 

I am part of those who regret buying it. But clearly I don't regret buying the Yak 52!

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The Yak 52 requires lots of left rudder to remain in-plane in looping maneuvers, which is correct. Similarly, on downlines or at hi speeds it requires right rudder.

 

The Christen Eagle has very strange high AoA rolling behavior. If you get to stalling AoA you can rock the wings back and forth (with aileron) at snap roll speeds, spontaneously changing direction.

 

After the first 90 degrees the airplane falls out of the snap and reverts to the slow roll rate, which is unexpected.

 

Both of these suggest that there is no rolling inertia. The plane feels weightless in the roll axis.

 

Besides the left-turning tendencies, I was disappointed that there is no gyroscopic effects. The airplane can sort of sustain knife-edge flight, and there is no difference between turning left or right even though the gyroscopic forces should make left turns much easier.

 

The flight modelling choices make the vertical plane maneuvers (loops) very very fun, I wonder what kind of client would be okay with the huge oversights in the rolling maneuvers.

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The Yak 52 displays a mostly believable and coherent flight and ground model. It's engine dynamics are on point...

I also disagree with you BBRZ, to me, the yaw is quite well modeled.

If you compare the RPM/MP values with the real Yak-52 you would notice that the engine dynamics are definitely not on the point.

So in the real Yak you don't need any rudder at full power on the edge of a stall?

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If you compare the RPM/MP values with the real Yak-52 you would notice that the engine dynamics are definitely not on the point.

So in the real Yak you don't need any rudder at full power on the edge of a stall?

 

Are you sure the autorudder is disabled? On the yak 52 based on my limited testing, the rudder is to be used during all phases of flight.

 

As for the engine modelling and it's performance, I haven't checked the numbers. However, Performance asside (which to me is believable), The behaviour of the Yak 52 engine is correct. Instantaneous MP pressure increase with power, propeller overshoot at speed if the power is increased quickly... We are dealing with a good engine model.

 

The christen eagle well... is a constant speed prop being modelled like a fixed pitch but with some tweaks to mask some of these deficiencies...If you add a quite bad flight model to this what does the Christen eagle bring to the end user? A 3D model? Yeah...

 

I'm not saying the yak is perfect, it is not. But the christen eagle module is to me not even close to the quality offered by the yak52.

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Are you sure the autorudder is disabled? On the yak 52 based on my limited testing, the rudder is to be used during all phases of flight.

 

We are dealing with a good engine model.

Yes. Confirmed, required rudder input changes with airspeed, but that shouldn't be the only factor as it is right now.

 

'good' engine model sounds different than 'on point' ;)

 

After my experience with the MiG-21 and watching their Eagle promotion video it was obvious to me that downloading the Eagle would be a waste of time.

 

The Yak-52 is apparently a much better product, nevertheless I haven't come across a single convincing prop driven aircraft in DCS concerning the prop specific simulation.

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I haven’t flown the real airplane, but I have flown enough different types to notice there must be some things missing from the flight model. The big standout to me is there seems to be little to no torque, p-factor, and spiraling slipstream effects. I could literally fly it under power to near a stall and the ball would stay centered with no rudder input.

 

little to no torque : I agree

p-factor : I have a left yaw tendancy when AoA is raising. Strange thing is that the aircraft seems yaw trimmed for max AoA, low AoA result in actual right yawing without rudder input. I don't see the ball keep center

 

EDIT : as for those saying the ED warbirds are the same, no, definitely no. Torque, P factor, slipstream, etc.... many effects are definitely there

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Whisper of old OFP & C6 forums, now Kalbuth.

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... as for those saying the ED warbirds are the same, no, definitely no. Torque, P factor, slipstream, etc.... many effects are definitely there

The effects are there, but the simulation is, lets say, questionably.

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I'm in no position to judge the accuracy. If you have a beef, I'd suggest listing them precisely in their specific forum part. This is a big statement you're making, there, and honestly lacking substance.

I myself take them as more than acceptable enough


Edited by Whisper

Whisper of old OFP & C6 forums, now Kalbuth.

Specs : i7 6700K / MSI 1070 / 32G RAM / SSD / Rift S / Virpil MongooseT50 / Virpil T50 CM2 Throttle / MFG Crosswind.

All but Viggen, Yak52 & F16

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I'm in no position to judge the accuracy. If you have a beef, I'd suggest listing them precisely in their specific forum part. This is a big statement you're making, there, and honestly lacking substance.

I myself take them as more than acceptable enough

I am in a position to judge the accuracy and I'm not 'having a beef'. Prop aircraft simulation simply isn't a strong point of DCS. That's all.

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