Refueling the turkey

[Wavehopper]

I really wouldn't use autopilot at all, you're only making it harder in the long run.

 

 

To refuel the tomcat you need to learn how to fly it smoothly and maintain altitude.

 

 

It's all about preparation and trim. Ideally set up off the wing of the tanker, match speed and trim until the aircraft is happily maintaining altitude with little to no input from you in the vertical.

 

 

When the aircraft is properly trimmed it becomes a lot easier. The biggest mistake I see online is people being lazy with the trim and you can't do that in the Tomcat. You have to trim it constantly.

[sublime]

Has it happened with auto pilot engaged? As it's using trim to level your flight your maneuvering (while forgetting to turn off AP) can get trim thrown to the extremes and then you have no idea what is your stick doing when you have no force feeling like with FFB sticks. In situation like that only thing that saves you is the AOA meter - move the stick to let AOA go down, retrim, get into downward attitude and you'll regain speed and control.

 

Its a bit.. rare for me but thatd absolutely make sense. I use autopilot heavily.

I use a 40 dollar stick Im poor ha ha.

Wanna know a secret?? I have no idea what the AoA thing is for. I can fly combat missions sucessfully though. Whats bugging me now is I seem to drop GBU12s fine. I drop GBU10s and they dont seem to go boom. :/

[sublime]

Has it happened with auto pilot engaged? As it's using trim to level your flight your maneuvering (while forgetting to turn off AP) can get trim thrown to the extremes and then you have no idea what is your stick doing when you have no force feeling like with FFB sticks. In situation like that only thing that saves you is the AOA meter - move the stick to let AOA go down, retrim, get into downward attitude and you'll regain speed and control.

 

Also do you know anywhere that has a good list of what to do in various emergencies?

Flying all these missions I need to start figuring out how to deal with some stuff. I dont know what the spoiler overrides do or the hydraulic override how to do that.

I know how to set a failure to happen so I can make scenarios myself where I have a failure but I need checklilsts.

(Sadly have to admit havent practiced refuelilng at all. Got dce working flying tf68 against older sov stuff. The damage control has come up a lot ha ha.

As dar as AP it seems my other post didnt save. These spins are rare but I could see it being ap; I use it alot if im say doin a slow ascent over 100 miles. Often i forget to turn it off.

Finally whats with the take off nose up?

Jesus I get she noses up and thts good but recently aive had to start almost stepping on trim down after TO. And not immediately.

[Slant]

I don't know if someone has already said it or if it is a bad idea or not but I always use the altitude autopilot, just smooths out the controls in my opinion, probably not the way you are meant to do it though.

 

Trim it out. Using the autopilot for refueling in the Tomcat is not really a good idea. If you're having issues in the pitch axis, it's most likely because you're in auto sweep mode. You need to get your wings fixed to a position (bomb mode will do just fine) and that should make life easier for you.

[Sublimearrepentido]

Im the one who started the thread! Im the one with the probs guys! I havent used AP thats what some dude suggested!

Thanks but thats not the issue for me. I can gdt close even clear to pre contact. Ive mever actually made contact. Ive ahd the net all over the place and it woulda been smacking my canopy IRL and jester yelling Im teasing it..

But no I always seem to get close f up get frustrated and it goes quickly downhill.

[Sublimearrepentido]

.anither problem I has is my stick went from too twitchy to feeling almost like I need 5o push too much to make finite adjustments.

This is what deadzone messes with in tune axis right

[Devil_Lettuce]

Im the one who started the thread! Im the one with the probs guys! I havent used AP thats what some dude suggested!

Thanks but thats not the issue for me. I can gdt close even clear to pre contact. Ive mever actually made contact. Ive ahd the net all over the place and it woulda been smacking my canopy IRL and jester yelling Im teasing it..

But no I always seem to get close f up get frustrated and it goes quickly downhill.

 

You have to learn to fly formation on the tanker. If you cannot do that you cannot refuel. It may sound like a broken record, but it's the truth and it is that simple. Spend a week flying on the wing of a tanker or in MP with a buddy. If you can stay in a half asses parade formation you can plug and refuel.

[XtraChrisP]

Refueling speed range for KC-130 is 220-250 KIAS

[Sublimearrepentido]

You have to learn to fly formation on the tanker. If you cannot do that you cannot refuel. It may sound like a broken record, but it's the truth and it is that simple. Spend a week flying on the wing of a tanker or in MP with a buddy. If you can stay in a half asses parade formation you can plug and refuel.

 

Fact its true.

I just need to get away from combat.

I can stay reliably close to the tanker. Its the clearing to precontact and oveecorrections.

And yeah i dont aim for the basket i fix a point on windscrn etc.

Question - adjusting only one throttle makes it a lot easier it seems but isnt an option for me. I know about putting my wings in bomb mode.

Is there anything else?

[Slant]

Trim it out. Sounds like a platitude, but it really is the bread and butter of many things. Before you even attempt to plug in, you should pretty much be able to let go of the stick physically and still generally stay where you need to be.

[Chaogen]

Yesterday I jumped in the back of a squadmate's Cat, that was having issues with the radio. He has been slowly figuring out the Tomcat and decided to try AAR.

 

He was still a couple of miles away so I helped him find the tanker, get the radios set up, and then briefed him two things. 1. Fold the wings, 2. Trim it out once he got close.

 

He approached it slowly from low 7 o'clock. Formed up and just kept it in place while I got him the basket. He plugged it right in, managed to follow the tanker into a turn and top off with 9k lbs all without disconnecting.

 

Now obviously he's not a novice at flying or AAR. Just had never done it in the Tomcat. Most of his experience is from the Mirage which he said was considerably harder due to throttle response.

 

As almost everyone here has said. Its 100% formation flying. Once you can stay in a spot and then transition to the exact other spot of your choosing you will have no problem with AAR in any aircraft. And unfortunately while you can do formation flying in SP you really need to get into a MP server to practice. The Aerobatics server is one such place where you can hone your skills even if you dont know anyone or dont have Comms.

[Devil_Lettuce]

When you do plug you still need to watch that trim and your throttle positions. The Turkey is so well modeled that the center of balance (?) will change as fuel comes aboard, certainly if you're filling the drops.

 

I suppose you don't really need to get away from combat. If you can practice with a human wing man you can fly in a decent close formation before you need to spread or do whatever. What really helped me was watching a video RainWaters posted to his instagram. It was a shot from a gopro looking across the cockpit of an F-5 or T-38 flying close formation on a U-2. The pilot worked that throttle constantly and only made fingertip corrections with the stick or a small pop on the trim hat.

[jojo]

Most of his experience is from the Mirage which he said was considerably harder due to throttle response.

 

:lol:

Your buddy is certainly good, probably better than me, but I come from the M-2000C, and I think it’s easier with it, much easier flight control, better visibility. Same with the Hornet.

 

Each one his own :smilewink:

[Sublimearrepentido]

Ive beeen doing that a lot for everything.

Are mark 20s bugged

And why do all lgbs besides the 12 not seem to work?

Finally couple.other things. On landing mode tacan button. The course knob. What course do i set the carriers?

Aying the tf68 dce campaign.. the harms seem.tongitn1 out of 50 targets. Were they really THAT bad in 86??

[jojo]

Ive beeen doing that a lot for everything.

Are mark 20s bugged

And why do all lgbs besides the 12 not seem to work?

Finally couple.other things. On landing mode tacan button. The course knob. What course do i set the carriers?

Aying the tf68 dce campaign.. the harms seem.tongitn1 out of 50 targets. Were they really THAT bad in 86??

 

In DCE they have a script to simulate SAM turning off radar making HARM to miss.

Actually in game, SAM is turning off, and HARM self destruct.

 

IMHO, even if HARM is known to have miss a lot (2000 shot during Desert Storm, 700 over Bosnia), it worse in DCS since it's very difficult to have proper SEAD tactics, and no EA-6B Prowler stand off jamming.

 

But from memory, you should be able to turn off that HARM script in campaign settings.

 

For the TACAN you should set BRC given by aircraft carrier ATC on radio for CAT 1, and final bearing (BRC + 10) for CAT 3 (IFR).

Edited May 14, 2020 by jojo

[Bananabrai]

PK of HARM is around 17% I think. It's a weapon to make the enemy switch off their stuff.

Thats its main task. To hit the target comes second.

The AGM-88E AARGM is probably better, because it can remember the targets location.

Not the AGM-88C though...

[gofrm76]

I know it's already been mentioned a couple of days ago but I wanted to recommend the usage of VR again as it made a difference like day and night for me.

I literally emptied a completely fueled F18 trying to connect to the tanker. My pitch and roll axes set up with 25 curvature beforehand.

In a two hour session exclusively chasing the tanker I made two connections of about half a second, that was all I could accomplish.

After using my Rift I needed exactly one attempt. That's how big the difference was for me.

[jojo]

Yes, VR is great.

Refueling on S-3B Viking, lowering the seat made a great difference for me too. With normal position is barely se the tanker and struggle to maintain good visual reference.

 

A question about the S-3B: does it have a maximum amount of fuel to deliver ?

I know a F-14B could dry it down. But I can't go above 12 2000lbs, which must be less than 4 000lbs delivered.

 

(Rift S VR recording)

 

Or am I doing something wrong ?

 

I can't even contact the S-3B anymore after that. It disappear from Jester and coms menu.

[Sublimearrepentido]

I play DCS on a laptop man. Im terrified it will die and its a couple years old. Almost a year ago it looked like id get a couple grand. I waa going to get a VR amongst some IL2 stuff and real life stuff. Imagine my disappointment that buying some 50 dollar thing is not enough. I need a 3k dollar comp to run it.

I use a 40 dollar logitech pro. Im VERY poor. Its not a possibility. Id literally give a testicle or shoot someome below the waist if someone "gifted" me a 3k comp and VR VR I heard its so amazing.

Sadly Ill probably never get to play it in VR

[Sublimearrepentido]

In DCE they have a script to simulate SAM turning off radar making HARM to miss.

Actually in game, SAM is turning off, and HARM self destruct.

 

IMHO, even if HARM is known to have miss a lot (2000 shot during Desert Storm, 700 over Bosnia), it worse in DCS since it's very difficult to have proper SEAD tactics, and no EA-6B Prowler stand off jamming.

 

But from memory, you should be able to turn off that HARM script in campaign settings.

 

For the TACAN you should set BRC given by aircraft carrier ATC on radio for CAT 1, and final bearing (BRC + 10) for CAT 3 (IFR).

Thanks yes I know about switching radars off but i thought the harms advantage over the agm45 shrike was it "remembered" where the emitter was.

So when I call the carrier put in the runway heading they give? Or the bearing theg give to the carrier?

Why add ten in case 3???

Do you guys recommend flying heads down in case 3 only or trying to use the NVGs?

The F14s projecting light "hud" seems to f with nvgs

[jojo]

Thanks yes I know about switching radars off but i thought the harms advantage over the agm45 shrike was it "remembered" where the emitter was.

So when I call the carrier put in the runway heading they give? Or the bearing theg give to the carrier?

Why add ten in case 3???

Do you guys recommend flying heads down in case 3 only or trying to use the NVGs?

The F14s projecting light "hud" seems to f with nvgs

 

When you contact carrier’s ATC, it will answer you with BRC (Base Reference Course) which is carrier course.

So just set that as course on HSI TACAN, and you will be able to reference it for downwind heading and stuff like that.

 

On case 3, +10 because you will align directly on angled deck.

 

For HARM, DCE script destroys HARM in flight to simulate the effect of loosing track, so memory doesn’t have any effect...

[Sublimearrepentido]

When you contact carrier’s ATC, it will answer you with BRC (Base Reference Course) which is carrier course.

So just set that as course on HSI TACAN, and you will be able to reference it for downwind heading and stuff like that.

 

On case 3, +10 because you will align directly on angled deck.

 

For HARM, DCE script destroys HARM in flight to simulate the effect of loosing track, so memory doesn’t have any effect...

 

Thanks.

Also I cant find explanatiom for the carrier landing codes.

Holding hands with and the numbers are the tail #s your flying with?

Single is charlie? Whats that? Marking moms? I get the angels and state, but I dont get marking moms, and the BRC something, single/signal is charlie?

Why does DCE do this to HARMs? It seems odd, because the attacks against sov air defenses are useless. Then I go fly my "f14a" against iran and suddenly the F18As attaxking air defenses kick ass and are using walleyes to smash any targets. I really liked Tf 68 but I think some stuff needs to be looked at (80s version) especially also my last mission it claimed the nimitz was sank. End of campaign. Fine. But it wasnt. What is that just a way to end the campaign? Because I scrutizized the hell out if the debrief all of it...

[jojo]

Yes for carrier ATC, your call sign in the lading pattern will be your side number.

During the mission you will use tactical call sign.

 

Case 1 pattern

 

Case 3 pattern

[draconus]

...final bearing (BRC + 10) for CAT 3 (IFR).

 

You probably know it but here's the mistake. In Case 3 you get Final Bearing which is BRC -10 so you set course FB+10.

 

Comms explained:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=244496

Edited May 14, 2020 by draconus

[jojo]

You probably know it but here's the mistake. In Case 3 you get Final Bearing which is BRC -10 so you set course FB+10.

 

Comms explained:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=244496

 

:doh:

 

You're right off course :D

 

Otherwise, does anybody knows about refueling limit with S-3B ?