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SD-10 deliberately veers away from target just before impact


njoyyoursalad
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Just as the title says, ever since this last patch (47404) there's been some very strange behavior with the SD-10 during the terminal phase. I figured that this problem was so obvious that I wouldn't need to follow it up on here, but to my surprise I haven't seen anything about this yet although many other players in MP have said they've noticed it as well.

 

Summary:

 

Fire an SD-10 in TWS in any type of BVR scenario, support the lock until impact or at least until TOA timer reaches zero, spectate the missile with the F6 view and watch how many of your SD-10's track the target perfectly until it's at the last 50-100 ft before impact—then watch your missile crank as hard as it can away from the target and trash itself.

 

The turn to dodge the target is very extreme, cranking anywhere from 45-120° away from the target and instantly obliterating most of the missile's remaining energy in the process. It's like pointing 2 magnets with identical poles at each other and watching them repel the other magnet as they get close. That's probably the best way to visualize what appears to be happening here.

 

 

It should be noted that this does not happen every time, but it's safe to say it happens to at least a quarter to a third of all the missiles I fire, and from a variety of different engagements—i.e. low alt, high alt, lofting, no loft, nose hot, flanking, pursuit, short and long ranges, maneuvering and non-maneuvering, etc. Most of these missiles were shot in TWS and most were lofted, but there are at least a few times I've seen this happen with STT/SAM and DTT.

 

My only area of play is PvP MP so that's the only mode where I can say I've seen this happening. I'm not sure if SP or engagements against AI in PvE are also affected. Unfortunately, I end up with a CTD after most of my sessions in the 47404 patch so I rarely have a clean track to provide, and if I do it's usually ≥750 MB. Tacviews are available though. But judging by the responses I've had in MP from other players I suspect this should be pretty easily to reproduce. I think the fastest way to reproduce it would be to hop onto a PvP server and fire a few lofted SD-10s at medium to long range in TWS while supporting the lock at least until it's active, then watch what happens with the F6 view.

Later today (or tomorrow) I can start going through my tracks & Tacviews for specific examples if it's necessary. Sorry for the hasty post, I just didn't want to let this go any longer without this being investigated.

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Missiles avoid terrain? I never heard of that. Just doesn't make sense for AA missiles, and they're already computationally constrained. They either track and hit, or they don't. They don't care about terrain.

 

 

I'd say this is a definite bug (in DCS).

Motorola 68000 | 1 Mb | Debug port

"When performing a forced landing, fly the aircraft as far into the crash as possible." - Bob Hoover.

The JF-17 is not better than the F-16; it's different. It's how you fly that counts.

"An average aircraft with a skilled pilot, will out-perform the superior aircraft with an average pilot."

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Its not SD-10 exclusive. AIM-120C also performs more or less the same with the Hornet. I've seen alot of weirdness missile related lately in MP tacview. There's something going on in this current build beside desync issue. Probably has something to do with the WIP of guidance missile by ED?

Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power. - Lao Tze

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The only guidance issue I ran into was launching TWS'd SD-10 at AI bandits.

 

The missile won't actually fly to the target and will instead fly to the point where the target was when I fired the missile. It would then do a sudden turn towards the target as it goes active, effectively killing all of its energy.

 

 

This only happens against AI in both MP and SP. TWS guides the missile just fine against human players.

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The only guidance issue I ran into was launching TWS'd SD-10 at AI bandits.

 

The missile won't actually fly to the target and will instead fly to the point where the target was when I fired the missile. It would then do a sudden turn towards the target as it goes active, effectively killing all of its energy.

 

 

This only happens against AI in both MP and SP. TWS guides the missile just fine against human players.

 

 

RWS is unaffected? I reported exactly this yesterday.

Motorola 68000 | 1 Mb | Debug port

"When performing a forced landing, fly the aircraft as far into the crash as possible." - Bob Hoover.

The JF-17 is not better than the F-16; it's different. It's how you fly that counts.

"An average aircraft with a skilled pilot, will out-perform the superior aircraft with an average pilot."

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RWS is unaffected? I reported exactly this yesterday.

 

I think RWS/SAM or DTT launch still makes the missile fly to the initial bandit position.

 

STT guides just fine.

 

I think it's actually related to this bug reported for the R-27, where losing lock will just make the missile home in on chaff.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=253434

 

I'm assuming that due to how the game works, using "soft" locking modes like TWS/SAM/DTT, you're technically not "locked" to the bandit; a condition, 'istargetlocked = false'. The game only recognizes STT as "istargetlocked = true" state, while other modes are not.

 

And since the AI are cheaters and know that you fired at them even in soft-lock modes like TWS/DTT, they immediately drop chaff.

 

 

So when locked on state is true, the missile homes in properly. when false, even if you are in TWS/SAM/DTT, the missile will chase the chaff instead, like it does for the R-27.

 

Theoretically, if a human player were to drop chaff as soon as they were fired on in with TWS, the same would happen.

 

I think this also affects the current AIM-120, AIM-54, and R-77 too. Thankfully it's been fixed internally by ED and should be in the next patch


Edited by J20Stronk
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That might explain an oddity I saw last night in MP. I put it down to RWR strangeness, but I noticed the missiles fired at me were all heading towards where I dropped chaff, and not towards me.

 

 

At the time I thought it was odd they were all heading for where I had been (I don't believe my tactics to be anyhting special), but figured I had spoofed them successfully, but now you're making me think I was actually seeing this problem.

Motorola 68000 | 1 Mb | Debug port

"When performing a forced landing, fly the aircraft as far into the crash as possible." - Bob Hoover.

The JF-17 is not better than the F-16; it's different. It's how you fly that counts.

"An average aircraft with a skilled pilot, will out-perform the superior aircraft with an average pilot."

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