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For ED -Increase payer base players by attracting buyers instead of keeping them away


zaelu
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1. Make all the themes available to anyone to see and use. - They are adverts not rewards.

 

2. Make multicrew planes have the second seat available for non owners of the plane (when the multicrew thing will be sorted) - You will not lose sales you will gain because nobody will be 100% satisfied with flying as RIO with a AI pilot or human pilot in multiplayer but it will increase the exposure to your modules and chances to convince a potential buyer. I think this would work even with Huey and Mi8 if you restrict access to the commander seat, still players will be tempted to own the module to have full access than be satisfied with the minuses.

 

3. Make an assessment if possible to see if the WW2 asset pack sold separately isn't actually hurting the sales of the other WW2 modules

 

4. Having a World Map in the planes for the future, make an assessment if giving the current maps for free would not actually increase the numbers of paying players.

 

Notes.

 

I have most of the modules and rarely use the music from them so is not a personal need. just a sales idea.

 

I have all the multicrew modules, again is not a personal wish to gain access to them as more a sales tip

 

I have the ww2 asset pack... I need to remove a lot of times the units from it in my missions so my friends can join the games... which is counterintuitive and counterproductive at least.

 

I have 3 of 4 current maps. I tested the forth and I don't need it just as I don't really like Normandie and Nevada one being unrealistic and FPS hungry the other down right useless for me personally. The Golf map I find it ugly. Personal opinion... But... the idea to allow all people use all the maps is inspired from IL-2 where all maps from different addons are available for all (just like the gunner seats) so players are exposed to the modules and community not splitted.

I think that is a clever approach.


Edited by zaelu

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1. I agree. Locking the themes is a bit silly, but imo not worth serious discussion.

 

2. Eh. I get it, but meh. Buy the damn thing. End of.

 

3. Tell your friends to stop being cheap and fork up for the WWII DLC. I don't get why this is an issue. DCS started as modern air combat. They developed a WWII themed DLC which is sold separately. If you want to play the WWII stuff, then buy it. Period.

 

4. A world map is way out of scope for anything regarding a relevant timescale. It's also not a magic cure all that is without drawbacks. As for giving the maps away free, no. Xplane charges for individual AIRPORTS. Asking a fee for a 400x400 map that is created by hand rather than sloppy seed generators is not unreasonable. People shouldn't be so damn cheap.

 

 

 

As for giving the maps away free... that would increase usage yes, but do nothing for sales. As opposed to having sold a map, they DON'T sell that map and then... what? You assume somebody will still spend that money or more?

 

-edit

We must have had a influx of new business college grads. Seems to be a lot of ''marketing experts'' around. At least this one didn't make a convoluted powerpoint presentation

Слава Україні, слава героям!

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One thing I can agree on, though, is that it would be a good idea to make a decent bundle pack with the WW2 asset pack. Perhaps that has been a thing when Normandy got released, I really don't know, but it would be a good idea for sure. 'P-47 + Normandy + WW2 Assets'. It's a little weird right now with the almost all-encompassing 50% off sale going on, but generally it would be a good thing, I believe.

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1. I agree on the themes being available to all online players.

2. I also agree in making multi player more accessible to non module owners like in a limited use multi player feature for demo and training purposes.

3.No comment

4. There is a new Mariana Islands map that will be free to everyone soon. If all maps were to be free then there would not be incentive for a 3rd party to develop a new map. The Map development is already slow as is with the few parties around that are able to do them.

 

I would also add that I had purposed not too long ago that it would be a good idea to add another free airplane to be included with the DCS download like a T-2 Buckeye.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=265902

The T-2 would be very instrumental in attracting new people to DCS as it could be used by everyone for flight training or just to take up a buddy for fun while giving him a DCS demo. Even flying the T-2 solo would be great for new and more experienced pilots as it is a great trainer that can also do carrier operations. Plus what better airplane is there to not only create more interest in the more advanced Naval modules like the F/A – 18 and F-14 but to also better prepare them to operate them,

And yes I know the T-45 is cooler but that is a newer aircraft that would be far more un realistic to be offered for free because it is more complex.

 

 

 

 

T-2C_lands_on_USS_Eisenhower_CVN-69_in_1987.jpg?fit=1740%2C1031&ssl=1

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The problem with WWII is that the entry fee is very high.

For your first module you have to buy:

Plane + WWII assets + Normandy.

In normal days at full price this is a very high bar for someone who wants to start with WWII - even more so if he is from another WWII game and completely new to DCS (the free trial helps a lot to make such transition and deciding to shell out the $$!)

 

There definitely should be a starter’s bundle of the map, assets and plane of choice. Later, it could also be map of choice when we have more of them.

“Mosquitoes fly, but flies don’t Mosquito” :pilotfly:

- Geoffrey de Havilland.

 

... well, he could have said it!

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Just a quick disclaimer, I'm still recovering from reading the "throwing $499 + 10% monthly will solve all our issues thread, so I might be even saltier than usual...

 

1. Make all the themes available to anyone to see and use. - They are adverts not rewards.
Meh, fair enough, but it's also a pretty valid incentive to buy the module (I'll admit, it did have some role to play in me purchasing the F-16)

 

2. Make multicrew planes have the second seat available for non owners of the plane (when the multicrew thing will be sorted)

 

Understand the idea, disagree with it, you want it, you should pay for it. There are plenty of videos giving you in-depth looks at what to expect + the free trials (there was a free weekend for the Tomcat even before this unprecedented period), plus the sales every quarter. If you don't want to spend the money, absolutely fine, no problem with that, they can be expensive. But usually a bit of patience and you've got yourself a sizeable sale + reward points.

 

You will not lose sales you will gain because nobody will be 100% satisfied with flying as RIO with a AI pilot or human pilot in multiplayer but it will increase the exposure to your modules and chances to convince a potential buyer. I think this would work even with Huey and Mi8 if you restrict access to the commander seat, still players will be tempted to own the module to have full access than be satisfied with the minuses.

 

Okay, sorry but you lost me here.

 

  1. Gaining sales by giving access to a permanent free trial just so long as it's multicrew? That's just silly, why would I purchase a module if I can have the same thing, but maybe a little limited. At that point it's cost comes as more of an upgrade, but as far as I can tell I get all the weapons, the systems modelling, the flight model etc... It would make more sense to do an FC3 level module... But isn't that basically the point of MAC?
  2. The 100% satisfied thing. A.) you're making serious assumptions on the part of the user base and B.) You're constraining the options, in fact they have full access to the module with this scheme - think about it; you find a buddy with a multicrew module, you can access the other seat for free, perpetually(?). But what happens if you're not satisfied using just that seat? Well, you just ask your multiplayer buddy to switch seats next time around? There you have it full (but maybe a little disjointed) access to the module for no money... I mean, am I missing something here?

 

3. Make an assessment if possible to see if the WW2 asset pack sold separately isn't actually hurting the sales of the other WW2 modules

 

I understand the sentiment, the thing is, the cost of development for the WWII assets pack isn't 0, nothing is. So I find it perfectly reasonable for ED to charge for it. The value for money right now isn't that great, in that it still is every bit as flawed as the rest of the ground vehicles, just with improved models and textures, but said new models have about the same parity as free additions like the Merkava IV and ZTZ-96B. They still have very crude sights, still have suspension completely backwards and I'm drifting off-topic....

 

4. Having a World Map in the planes for the future, make an assessment if giving the current maps for free would not actually increase the numbers of paying players.

 

A world map is planned-ish, but it's more a "hope to" in the future, it is a long way off and it almost certainly isn't in active development...

 

But yes, would love to see bigger maps, and eventually a world map, my only fear is hardware (if we were going to detail, it would probably have to be a cloud based thing that downloads maps in real time, like Outerra, or have the option to download what you want).

 

And again, paying for maps isn't unprecedented in the flight simulator world, nor is it unreasonable - these things take considerable effort and having them be paid (at least in theory) should provide a certain standard of quality to attain in order to justify the cost... I don't know, that's how I see it.

 

And wait, weren't you one of the subscription model proponents? Just curious now we're basically discussing add more stuff for free...


Edited by Northstar98

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV-2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas

System (RIP my old PC): Dell XPS 15 9570 w/ Intel i7-8750H, NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, 16GB DDR4, 500GB Samsung PM871 SSD (upgraded with 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD)

VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite

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If all maps were to be free then there would not be incentive for a 3rd party to develop a new map. The Map development is already slow as is with the few parties around that are able to do them.

 

Imho... judging on what others are preparing in the future... there is no future in building maps for DCS. You simply can't compete with AI, you should simply embrace what it offers, automation in rebuilding something to real life level with minimal costs. Building a business plan on this 3rd map building in DCS looks to me like a dangerous gamble. I need to find an example of somebody winning against automation on the long term.

 

@Lunatic98

 

Sorry man, all I can say to you is that the 4 points are based on real world practices and examples. Same goes to what I suggested in the other thread.


Edited by zaelu

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I5 4670k, 32GB, GTX 1070, Thrustmaster TFRP, G940 Throttle extremely modded with Bodnar 0836X and Bu0836A,

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Imho... judging on what others are preparing in the future... there is no future in building maps for DCS. You simply can't compete with AI, you should simply embrace what it offers, automation in rebuilding something to real life level with minimal costs. Building a business plan on this 3rd map building in DCS looks to me like a dangerous gamble. I need to find an example of somebody winning against automation on the long term.

 

But even so, it removes the incentive to develop the AI used for mapping anyway, and on a time base yeah, but if you look at MS FS2020, AI still has a way to go...

 

@Lunatic98

 

Sorry man, all I can say to you is that the 4 points are based on real world practices and examples. Same goes to what I suggested in the other thread[/b]

 

[citation needed]

 

And I soft agreed with the sentiment behind 3...


Edited by Northstar98

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV-2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas

System (RIP my old PC): Dell XPS 15 9570 w/ Intel i7-8750H, NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, 16GB DDR4, 500GB Samsung PM871 SSD (upgraded with 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD)

VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite

Dreams: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/bG9bBc

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I love it when peanut gallery experts try to tell a company how to be a company.

 

Isn't it ironic to tell people not to make wishes in the wish list section lol?

 

I don't think a couple things that the OP said are the best ideas I've ever heard but just because a user suggests something, doesn't mean ED has to or will do it. That's for them to decide.

 

That being said, I think if you paid for FC3 you should at least be able to choose the individual aircraft themes for each individual aircraft that come with it.

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To start with, i have WW2 pack, but...

 

I understand the sentiment, the thing is, the cost of development for the WWII assets pack isn't 0, nothing is. So I find it perfectly reasonable for ED to charge for it.

 

Absolutely, but it could be much profitable if players didn't have to buy both WW2 pack and a warbird. WW2 units are just models with a quality lower than of any of WT vehicles, i can't see any reason why i should've paid for it. Furthermore, free WW2 units would've spured the desire of new players to buy warbirds which would increase the overall income, but for the moment players are deterred by silly prices

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The problem with WWII is that the entry fee is very high.

For your first module you have to buy:

Plane + WWII assets + Normandy.

In normal days at full price this is a very high bar for someone who wants to start with WWII - even more so if he is from another WWII game and completely new to DCS (the free trial helps a lot to make such transition and deciding to shell out the $$!)

 

There definitely should be a starter’s bundle of the map, assets and plane of choice. Later, it could also be map of choice when we have more of them.

 

You don't have to own Normandy or WW2 Assets to experience dogfight with WW2 planes.. Entry fee is high if you want extra fun.

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You don't have to own Normandy or WW2 Assets to experience dogfight with WW2 planes.. Entry fee is high if you want extra fun.

 

Have you tried other WW2 airsims? In some you can jump even inside 2 tanks with inside 3d model for free. Not to mention you have all the maps and tanks for missions building and gunner positions to jump into when in multiplayer included with the first base game purchase that can run during sales to under 20$.

 

I am not saying that everything is mandatory to be cheap... but there is competition, when you try to sell same stuff at big price you basically take a hit in the sales.

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I5 4670k, 32GB, GTX 1070, Thrustmaster TFRP, G940 Throttle extremely modded with Bodnar 0836X and Bu0836A,

Warthog Joystick with F-18 grip, Oculus Rift S - Almost all is made from gifts from friends, the most expensive parts at least

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To start with, i have WW2 pack, but...

 

Absolutely, but it could be much profitable if players didn't have to buy both WW2 pack and a warbird. WW2 units are just models with a quality lower than of any of WT vehicles, i can't see any reason why i should've paid for it. Furthermore, free WW2 units would've spured the desire of new players to buy warbirds which would increase the overall income, but for the moment players are deterred by silly prices

 

Hmm, maybe if the assets pack was priced lower? Then again, we have gotten some new assets...

 

I will agree that it only adds models, but retains all of the flaws with other free ground vehicles (don't get me started on that one - very crude optics, no lights, no control over smoke discharges, crude sounds, completely backwards etc). It's not helped by the fact that new free ground vehicles (though we've only had a few in the last few years) are already reaching parity in terms of model quality with the WW2 assets pack.


Edited by Northstar98

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV-2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas

System (RIP my old PC): Dell XPS 15 9570 w/ Intel i7-8750H, NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, 16GB DDR4, 500GB Samsung PM871 SSD (upgraded with 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD)

VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite

Dreams: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/bG9bBc

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Just to add a little comment on the "ney" to 4.

 

I see a map takes a lot of time, money and effort. BUT!

It is not working and worth it imho. And in the future it will be worse (due to competition/corona)

 

And there is an alternative!

 

1. Haste the Whole Earth map production. It's not necessary to have ANY detail. ANY! It just need to have a sphere...oid... ovoid? the size of earth where position could be established within 10cm or so.

2. Port the current maps to this world.... yes... it will take some time. But make it so if you take off from Vegas westwords and you put enough tankers/carriers on the way you could fly to Mariana... then Dubai... then land at Novorossiysk for a quick stop before taking off to your destination... Caen.

 

This work... should be made using as much open source/community help as possible. basically this whole Earth should be made as a side project with as little as possible financing from ED.

 

But, to actually see the Vegas, Dubai, etc at full fidelity... you have to have the maps. If not... you have them in community made quality.

 

And

 

3. ED will just control what is used/accepted in libraries in online MP environment.

 

Sure here is a tough choice to make and is without return. If ED decides to go this route.... it may be no turning back and they can lose some control over the game... but having control and choking slowly it could be very well the other alternative.

 

There is no way they can build a Whole Earth map in time and cost effective to the quality of those made free by communities or those made by AIs in other sims. I don't give names here but they are known.

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I5 4670k, 32GB, GTX 1070, Thrustmaster TFRP, G940 Throttle extremely modded with Bodnar 0836X and Bu0836A,

Warthog Joystick with F-18 grip, Oculus Rift S - Almost all is made from gifts from friends, the most expensive parts at least

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Strong agree on WW2 asset pack, perhaps it made sense at the time but I think that's changed.

 

Imo, with the Channel map coming, new WW2 damage model, P-47 etc, WW2 in DCS is really shaping up. I believe it'd be a long term benefit of WW2 in DCS to use this opportunity to ditch the asset pack and include it in the base game, and for those who already shelled out, give them the relevant discount on the Channel map. Sorted.

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