Jump to content

Best SEAD aircraft?


Spirit X

Recommended Posts

I'm thinking of buying a new module or two and I really enjoy SEAD/ Wild Weasel missions.

 

I have the F16 (and eagerly awaiting Maverick and HARM implementation), F14 and A10C but wondered if there are any other aircraft that can use HARMs and what people would recommend in terms of flying fun SEAD missions?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For SEAD - I'd prefer the F-18/ JF-17. The F-18 is planned to get a lot of love this year. It's fast, versatile and got a good SA. Moreover, it gives your more playtime and the ability to do naval ops - a super fun feature on it's own


Edited by nickos86
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When finished, the F-16 will be the best SEAD aircraft, because it will have HARM and HTS.

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When finished.

this is the most important point :D

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

FC3 | UH-1 | Mi-8 | A-10C II | F/A-18 | Ka-50 III | F-14 | F-16 | AH-64 Mi-24 | F-5 | F-15E| F-4| Tornado

Persian Gulf | Nevada | Syria | NS-430 | Supercarrier // Wishlist: CH-53 | UH-60

 

Youtube

MS FFB2 - TM Warthog - CH Pro Pedals - Trackir 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FW 190 F-8.

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

F/A-18C, F-16C (when implemented) and the JF-17.

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like QuiGon already mentioned. The F-16 will eventually become extremely potent in SEAD/DEAD because it will get the AN/ASQ-213 HARM Targeting System pod.

 

 

 

The F/A-18 has the AGM-88C right now, and an advantage it has is that it can carry 4 of them (our F-16 will most likely only carry 2).

 

 

 

A plane I haven't seen mentioned yet is the AV-8B. This planes carries the AGM-122. This weapon is very easy to use but nowhere near as capable as the other anti-radiation missiles we have right now. Combined with the V/STOL and BAI/CAS nature of the Harrier, I find it a fun and useful weapon to have, though.

Check my F-15C guide

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(our F-16 will most likely only carry 2)

What makes you think that? :huh:

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And hopefully they fix the ARM way to head unit Orion, instead of radar emission source so to radar antenna.

 

There is as well other limitations that ARM guides just nearby as the radar emission is strongly reflected from surroundings as well so target area is larger in worse case scenario. It is same effect as someone pointing a flashlight on your face at night, you will have trouble to see the light source accurate position at close range, but not from long range.

 

So hopefully we see ARM missiles missing more often the target by good amount, as well going inaccurate if radar shutsoff at early phase.

 

That is reason why ARM missiles has warhead, as they ain't perfectly hitting the radar but can be dozens of meters off. To destroy a radar you would need only a ballistic weight if perfectly hitting at them, and even then such missile would just slip trough radar antenna like a bullet through paper.

 

So it would cause situations where radar unit survives but antenna destroyed, or antenna survives but equipment destroyed. Or perfect hits, that whole unit gets destroyed.

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What makes you think that? :huh:

Because of real life: HARMs are only carried on stations 3 and 7 (I have never seen evidence that says otherwise).

Spoiler

Ryzen 9 5900X | 64GB G.Skill TridentZ 3600 | Gigabyte RX6900XT | ASUS ROG Strix X570-E GAMING | Samsung 990Pro 2TB + 960Pro 1TB NMVe | HP Reverb G2
Pro Flight Trainer Puma | VIRPIL MT-50CM2+3 base / CM2 x2 grip with 200 mm S-curve extension + CM3 throttle + CP2/3 + FSSB R3L + VPC Rotor TCS Plus base with SharKa-50 grip mounted on Monstertech MFC-1 | TPR rudder pedals

OpenXR | PD 1.0 | 100% render resolution | DCS "HIGH" preset

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When finished, the F-16 will be the best SEAD aircraft, because it will have HARM and HTS.

 

What exactly is the F-16 gaining with the HTS pod over the FA-18? With my limited understanding the HTS is providing range(?) information to improve effectiveness?

 

Just asking because with the SPJ-Pod for the JF-17 we have that function already, but it looks like the Harm provides some more functionality to be more effective in doing SEAD(choosing emitter).

 

Just curious :beer:

Modules: KA-50, A-10C, FC3, UH-1H, MI-8MTV2, CA, MIG-21bis, FW-190D9, Bf-109K4, F-86F, MIG-15bis, M-2000C, SA342 Gazelle, AJS-37 Viggen, F/A-18C, F-14, C-101, FW-190A8, F-16C, F-5E, JF-17, SC, Mi-24P Hind, AH-64D Apache, Mirage F1

System: Win 11 Pro 64bit, Ryzen 3800X, 32gb RAM DDR4-3200, PowerColor Radeon RX 6900XT Red Devil ,1 x Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe, 2 x Samsung SSD 2TB + 1TB SATA, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals - VIRPIL T-50CM and VIRPIL MongoosT-50 Throttle - HP Reverg G2, using only the latest Open Beta, DCS settings

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because of real life: HARMs are only carried on stations 3 and 7 (I have never seen evidence that says otherwise).

Oh, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks! :thumbup:

 

What exactly is the F-16 gaining with the HTS pod over the FA-18? With my limited understanding the HTS is providing range(?) information to improve effectiveness?

 

Just asking because with the SPJ-Pod for the JF-17 we have that function already, but it looks like the Harm provides some more functionality to be more effective in doing SEAD(choosing emitter).

 

Just curious :beer:

It basically provides two things:

 

1) A general SA overview of the entire surrounding Electronic Order of Battle (EOOB) on the ground, as it displays all kind of emitters on a top down display, similar to the HSI and SA page.

 

2) Access to more advanced HARM targeting modes that benefit from known range and position of the emitter. It's described pretty well here: https://www.ausairpower.net/API-AGM-88-HARM.html

The HARM has four basic operating modes. The Pre-Brief, Pre-Emptive or Position-Known (PB/PE/POS) mode is a Lock On After Launch (LOAL) mode, and is used for standoff maximum range attacks on emitters of a known type and location, within several degrees of the missile boresight. This is the basic mode used by dedicated defence suppression (SEAD) aircraft such as the F-4G and Tornado ECR, or F-16CJ/HTS. In PB/PE/POS mode, as used by the Tornado ECR or F-4G, the aircraft's Emitter Locating System (ELS) determines the identity and position of the target, which are downloaded to the missile. The launch aircraft will then toss the missile to impart the best possible range. The missile flies on inertial guidance until it acquires the target, and then homes to impact. The PB/PE/POS mode is essentially offensive and most commonly used when taking down an IADS.

 

A sub-mode of the PB/PE/POS mode is Equations-Of-Motion (EOM) mode which allows more precise selection of emitters at maximum range, in a high density environment. The EOM mode is more specific than PB mode in terms of target selection, and can engage off axis if required, but requires more precise target position information than the baseline PB mode. The target position data can be provided by an onboard receiver or datalinked from an external source (eg Rivet Joint to F-16CJ).

 

[...]

 

The range advantage of the PB/EOM mode stems from the missile's ability to fly a more energy efficient trajectory toward the target to the point where the seeker is activated and homing begins. Once the HARM initiates homing, the previous launch mode is irrelevant as the missile's trajectory is from that point determined by the homing algorithm (typically a variant of proportional navigation in such missiles). The homing performance of the missile is needless to say identical regardless of the initial launch mode.

 

While the USAF could exploit the PB/EOM mode using the existing rangefinding capability of the F-4G ELS, and later the F-16CJ HTS, the USN has only ever operated the missile in range unknown modes. Most USN launches have been in TOO or PB mode, with occasional launches in SP mode.

 

The full performance capability of the HARM can thus be exploited only by aircraft fitted with a rangefinding receiver as this allows the missile to be launched in range known PB/EOM modes and acquire the target enroute. Examples of such receivers are the APR-38/47 ELS on the F-4G, the Tornado ECR ELS, the HARM Targeting System (HTS - fitted more recently to F-16CJs) or the LM Target Acquisition System (TAS - recently tested on the F/A-18C).

And before anyone asks: No, the TAS has not been introduced into active service. The program got cancelled to the best of my knowledge.


Edited by QuiGon

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In JF-17, SPJ doesn’t even talk to ARM. Ranging is there just for you, not the missile. (AVIC WHYYYYY).

Thats true but i have the range information on the HSD to work with instead of the thread rings, thats fine for me. But granted that doesn't help the missile much.

 

Oh, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks! :thumbup:

 

 

It basically provides two things:

 

1) A general SA overview of the entire surrounding Electronic Order of Battle (EOOB) on the ground, as it displays all kind of emitters on a top down display, similar to the HSI and SA page.

 

2) Access to more advanced HARM targeting modes that benefit from known range and position of the emitter. It's described pretty well here: https://www.ausairpower.net/API-AGM-88-HARM.html

 

And before anyone asks: No, the TAS has not been introduced into active service. The program got cancelled to the best of my knowledge.

So for the EDIT: "F-16 compared to the" FA-18 the advantage is your point 1 and 2 and for the JF-17 it's "only" point 2.

 

Thank you both :beer:


Edited by unknown

Modules: KA-50, A-10C, FC3, UH-1H, MI-8MTV2, CA, MIG-21bis, FW-190D9, Bf-109K4, F-86F, MIG-15bis, M-2000C, SA342 Gazelle, AJS-37 Viggen, F/A-18C, F-14, C-101, FW-190A8, F-16C, F-5E, JF-17, SC, Mi-24P Hind, AH-64D Apache, Mirage F1

System: Win 11 Pro 64bit, Ryzen 3800X, 32gb RAM DDR4-3200, PowerColor Radeon RX 6900XT Red Devil ,1 x Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe, 2 x Samsung SSD 2TB + 1TB SATA, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals - VIRPIL T-50CM and VIRPIL MongoosT-50 Throttle - HP Reverg G2, using only the latest Open Beta, DCS settings

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So for the FA-18 the advantage is your point 1 and 2 and for the JF-17 it's "only" point 2.

No, not for the F/A-18. I was talking about the F-16 and its HTS-Pod. The F/A-18 doesn't have such capabilities.

 

I can't say anything about the JF-17 as I'm not very familiar with that aircraft and its capabilities.

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, not for the F/A-18. I was talking about the F-16 and its HTS-Pod. The F/A-18 doesn't have such capabilities.

 

I can't say anything about the JF-17 as I'm not very familiar with that aircraft and its capabilities.

 

We both mean the same but i wasn't clear enough in my text, i meant the F16 compared to the FA-18/JF-17.

Modules: KA-50, A-10C, FC3, UH-1H, MI-8MTV2, CA, MIG-21bis, FW-190D9, Bf-109K4, F-86F, MIG-15bis, M-2000C, SA342 Gazelle, AJS-37 Viggen, F/A-18C, F-14, C-101, FW-190A8, F-16C, F-5E, JF-17, SC, Mi-24P Hind, AH-64D Apache, Mirage F1

System: Win 11 Pro 64bit, Ryzen 3800X, 32gb RAM DDR4-3200, PowerColor Radeon RX 6900XT Red Devil ,1 x Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe, 2 x Samsung SSD 2TB + 1TB SATA, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals - VIRPIL T-50CM and VIRPIL MongoosT-50 Throttle - HP Reverg G2, using only the latest Open Beta, DCS settings

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

F-16 with harms and HTS is just so overkill with AI SAM's. You can loft HARM's from about ~60nm, they will go to space and dive from there 1000kn+. Even SA-15 and SA-10 have a hard time with HARMs. Kinematicly F-16 is propably the best for SEAD and combined with HTS+HARM i think there's just no comparison.

Edit: We really need skynet etc or real IADS system so AI SAM's wont make suicides 😄 Then it's more about tactics etc than just aircraft and it's capabilities.


Edited by divinee

http://dcsfinland.fi/

Dcs: F/A-18C, F-16C, F-14, A-10C, A-10C II, AV-8B, MiG-21bis, M2000C, C-101, AJS-37, F-5, MF1, Bf-109K4, AH-64, UH-1, Ka-50, Mi-24, FC3, SC

System: i5-13600k@P58,58,57,57,56,56/E45 Asus TUF 3080Ti OC 12gb, 64gb DDR5 5600cl32, HP Reverb G2, Virpil WarBrD, Warthog throttle with deltasim slew, MFG Crosswind, DIY ”UFC”, 3x TM MFD’s

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, divinee said:

Edit: We really need skynet etc or real IADS system so AI SAM's wont make suicides 😄 Then it's more about tactics etc than just aircraft and it's capabilities.

This so much!!!

I hope this will work out:

 


Edited by QuiGon
  • Like 2

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that best SEAD aircraft for such network in DCS would be Viper, but the network like IADS wont be an easy task.

Viper still has to get ALQ-131 / ALQ-184 ECM pods then it will be true menace for those SAM sites, but alone it wont be able to do much vs that kind of network, it need lots of cooperation to bring that defense network down. Electronic warfare is a big part of SEAD, so it will need to be modeled in DCS so we can use its full poetntial vs those networks.

That's how I see it currently, who knows what the future brings in DCS, hope for more goodies and more gen4 aircraft, and if possible, improvements in electronic warfare!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...