I pulled the trigger and ordered the $950 option

[streakeagle]

There are more important things I should spend the money on, but I have been earning tons of overtime in the past month or two as well as getting an income tax refund and the covid 19 bonus check... So, I looked at the options and picked the 2nd most expensive one.

 

I couldn't see paying $80 more for a twist axis that I won't ever use. Though I did spend the extra $150 to get the desk mounts and joystick extension when I will probably never use the joystick or its desk mount, but if I do ever use the stick, it would be with an extension. If the throttle desk mount fits/works on my current desk, I will be using it until I can build a generic console that can easily swap between the Warthog and the Hornet throttles and in not so distant future, the VKB TECS. I have tons of ideas floating around in my head, I just need time and money to finalize and implement my cockpit ideas/designs.

[Svsmokey]

Congrats !

[Heratic]

"I will probably never use the joystick"

 

That's what i thought. Now I'm selling my VKB MCG

[WINWING]

"I will probably never use the joystick"

 

That's what i thought. Now I'm selling my VKB MCG

 

streakeagle : Thank you very much for your support! Better thing will be ever better , so try it please and you will know which is better

[AegisFX]

"I will probably never use the joystick"

 

That's what I thought. Now I'm selling my VKB MCG

 

it's that good? I'm actually glad to hear.

[streakeagle]

The winwing stick will not allow me to use the F-14 grip, MCG Pro grip, Warthog grip, or KG-12 grip. So, unless this thing gives me massages with a happy ending, it has about a zero chance of replacing the VKB stick. The mechanical feel of the Winwing stick might be better in some way, but I can't imagine how since the only way I would like the VKB stick more is if it had force feedback. But, I did reserve judgement with the word "probably". I am prepared for the possiblity that I may actually like the Winwing stick more, otherwise I would not have spent an extra $150 to get the the desk mounts and stick extension. All I can do is wait for the HOTAS to arrive and then see for myself.

[Heratic]

Yeah i have missed having a metal stick since going away from my warthog and that's the main reason i prefer it over my MCG.

 

Gimble to gimble i think they beat out the gunfighter pro in my opinion.

 

If i was going to go a different stick i would probably go for a virpil base and thrust-master sticks. But as is, i'm more then happy with this stick as im focusing on the FA18 atm. Hopefully they release some new grips. I miss the analog brake leaver on the MCG.

[streakeagle]

I don't care for the cold feeling of metal, but I do like the weight. My real B-8's have some sort of high grade industrial plastic or resin outer shape, but have a metal core. So I get the feeling of weight/sturdiness I like without the cold metal feeling I don't like. The MCG Pro is huge compared to my B-8s, but feels like it is about half the weight.

 

B-8s are by far my favorite grip in terms of feel and ergonomics. Of the VKB/TM grips I am currently using the TM F/A-18 grip is tied with the VKB F-14 grip for being my next most favorite. The F-14 grip has almost exactly the same ergonomics as the B-8 and the little rubber textures on the spine and side remind me of pistols with partial rubber grips for comfort and muscle memory. The Hornet grip has almost the same ergonomics as well, has far more buttons/switches, and feels heavy/sturdy. But the Hornet grip also has the cold metal feel.

 

So my grip usage usually follows what I am doing:

 

1) Lots of different aircraft, MCG Pro for all the different inputs I might need so I don't have to keep changing grips.

 

2) Older airplanes with B-8 or similar grips with limited buttons: F-14 grip for comfort and similarity.

 

3) F-15C and F/A-18C with ability to fly the same airplanes available in option 2: TM Hornet grip.

 

4) A-10C and F-16C: Warthog grip. Because DCS sees the Warthog grip and the Hornet grip as the same stick, I don't use the Hornet grip with the A-10C or the F-16C and don't use the Warthog grip with any other aircraft besides the A-10C and F-16C. It is my least favorite grip and I don't fly the A-10C or F-16C very often, so this grip doesn't get used nearly as much as the others listed above.

 

5) SCG Pro grip: this is my alternative option to the MCG Pro. It doesn't have the brake lever, so I tend to avoid aircraft that need that, but it otherwise can cover just about any DCS aircraft. The ergonomics aren't too different from the TM Hornet grip I like so much. But I still don't use it that much because I either want the brake lever, or I am using the F-14 or Hornet grips.

 

6) I don't fly the WW2 aircraft as often as the jets, but when I fly Luftwaffe, I use the KG-12. It doesn't have a whole lot of buttons, but neither did the real aircraft's KG series grips. The ergonomics are similar to the MCG Pro, but maybe a little skinnier? So, it is not my favorite, but I love matching the grip shape/type as much as possible to the aircraft I am flying, especially in VR where it feels more immersive to be holding the same shape and pressing the same trigger/buttons as you see on-screen.

 

I can already use the TM Hornet and Warthog grips on my VKB base. So, I am pretty sure I am staying with their stick.

[streakeagle]

Order has arrived! I opened the box, but I have to work until 3 PM, so I can't assemble and play with it yet.

 

Per previous reviews, the throttle is a lot lighter than it looks, especially compared to the Warthog. Being light is a good thing for the desk mount. I can't wait to set it up. With this installed and working, I will be able to move my F-4 throttle console to the side, remove the Warthog throttle, and begin installing the real F-4 throttle without any hurry since I will be solely using the WinWing throttle until I have the F-4 console/throttle changeout completed.

 

So, I am going to end up with three throttle choices for flying: WinWing F/A-18 throttle, Warthog throttle, and real F-4 throttle.

 

I will also have three stick choices for flying: WinWing F/A-18 sick, VKB GF stick, Warthog stick. But since I have adapted one of my TM Warthog grips and the TM Hornet grip to VKB as well as having a spare VKB GF base, there is no reason to use the Warthog stick.

 

I have two PCs, one with Rift S and one with the old Rift, and I still have my old Saitek pedals, so I can setup up two cockpits with stick, throttle, and rudder with VR and still have a pile of leftover hardware for a third cockpit minus the rudder pedals and VR.

[streakeagle]

I had to work all day then follow my normal routine: feed and walk the dog, go grocery shopping, ride my bicycle, cook/eat/clean up, and shower. So at this point, all I have done is get the throttle clamped to my desk.

 

First impressions:

 

Love the throttle. The available controls seem to be a better setup than the Warthog with center depress buttons on all the hat switches and the nice spring loaded radar elevation knob that could double as a DLC switch for F-14 pilots using the F-18 HOTAS.

 

Love the panel. It will do well for many aircraft with a nice variety of maintained and momentary switches, a selector switch, and two twist knobs.

 

The stick will collect dust. The installed cam has a center detent feel not unlike the Warthog or using the optional hard detent cam on the VKB. I can't stand that feeling and after paying $950, I don't see alternative cams in the supplied parts and I won't be buying extra ones because I can see that at best with the right cams and springs, the stick base will equal the VKB. So, I wish I had waited another week and saved the $300 just buying the throttle.

 

The grip itself is comparable and in some ways better than the Thrust Master Hornet grip. Like the throttle, it has slightly more buttons and all hats have center depress switches. The TM grip added a control that doesn't exist on the real grip to use up three spare button inputs leftover from the Warthog grip. But this grip gives you the correct appearance while providing a much better bonus control: a hat switch hidden under the little pushbutton: a much more useful control that allows this grip to be used in place of a Warthog grip because it has the necessary three hat switches. If I could use this grip with the VKB GF base, I would.

 

I like the adjustable extension so you don't have to buy exactly the length you need: set it where you need it and forget it. Other people providing stick extensions might want to take notes.

 

I don't care for the loose PS cable connectors on the stick grip, base, and extension. It is similar to the way I have to connect my Warthog extension, which I never liked and was a hassle when swapping grips. I much prefer the VKB solution with a simple, fixed connector that fits only one way and virtually no chance of bending a pin. VKB's only flaw is their little locknut device that has to be rotated to exactly the right position to allow you to slide the grip on and requires and allen wrench to install or remove the grip. The WinWing has simple threaded collars, which I love. But they require small locking screws. Of course, once you have the extension set to the right height and the grip canted to the angle you like, you won't ever have to touch it again because there are no other compatible grips at the moment. So, if you like the stock cams or can get cams you like, this stick would be roughly equal to the VKB. But it doesn't have an analog break lever, and I don't know of another grip with more/better control options than the MCG Pro. If I didn't already have the VKB setup and had bought this first, I wouldn't have known what I was missing and would never have bought the VKB. It is very good, just not as good as the VKB for my purposes/preferences.

 

In all honesty, I got exactly what I expected. I have been following this setup since it was announced and paid attention to all the comments, both negative and positive. I was pretty sure I didn't need the stick but wanted the throttle bad enough that I bought it anyway because the throttle wasn't sold separately. Maybe some day I will use it, but right now, I have two VKB GF MK2 bases upgraded to MK3 and six different grips that work with them. If I had just waited another week, I would have saved $300 instead of having another paper weight to collect dust with my two unused Warthog sticks.

Edited May 27, 2020 by streakeagle

[streakeagle]

One other comment: I haven't taken it apart yet to see what it is, but something is loose and rattling around in the stick base. It sounds like a screw.

 

I opened it up. The screw came out of one of the cam bearings. Fixed. Probably fell out during shipping, but that means it wasn't torqued to specification. No harm done, but I wasn't planning on opening up my brand new stick.

 

To be fair, my MCG Pro grip had a slight wiggle in it. I looked it up on the forums and found that some were shipped without the screws being tightened on the connector. I opened mine up: one screw was loose and one didn't even exist. I put in my own screws and it worked perfectly, but that was a bit of a QA miss.

Edited May 27, 2020 by streakeagle

[streakeagle]

On the throttle, there should have been switches to detect whether you have pushed past the afterburner detents. Some DCS modules (and some other sims), can use a button to permit afterburner, which helps overcome problems with the location of the detent versus the position of the analog axis versus how the DCS module and/or real aircraft toggles between military and afterburner.

 

I have a real F-101 throttle quadrant with F-4 throttle levers mounted on it. On the F-4, you go to outboard position before you can advance to afterburner, and there is a switch that knows when you are outboard. On the F-101 throttle quadrant, it is a little different. Max military power is at the same limit as max afterburner. But if you are past a certain position, you can shift outboard to engage the multi-staged afterburner anywhere between minimum (the first point you can go outboard) and maximum (you transition between max military and max afterburner when the throttle is all the way forward and you click inboard or outboard).

[Supmua]

Mine is supposed to be here tomorrow and I just ordered last Fri. Can’t wait to try it out.

[streakeagle]

The startup panel has what is really needed to support the chaotic mess that DCS modules have with control mapping: switches with on indications for every position.

 

The Warthog Throttle has maintained switches that only provide an on indication in one position. A lot of control mappings require a button press for each position, for example flap switches. So, to use the Warthog flap switch, I have to edit the throttle or default input lua file to get the middle position to be covered by the off status of the upper and lower positions.

 

There is a benefit when control mappings look for an on indication for every switch position: if you enable synchronization between in-game cockpit controls and game controllers, the switches in-game will move to match your real switches from the moment the mission starts. There is a price to pay though: you need to make sure you have your switches in the right positions before you start the mission, especially if the mission starts in the air or with the aircraft already started and ready for taxi/takeoff. Realistically, if you are performing a cold start, you need to get all the switches in the correct positions before initiating the startup procedure.

 

But no one if forcing me to map all the positions. I can still use this the way I used the Warthog, which allows me to put all the switches in the "safe" unmonitored "off" positions so that when the mission starts, nothing will be messed up by a switch being in the wrong position. Disabling synchronization also prevents this problem.

 

So, the startup panel maximizes your options to make your controls work the way you like and/or the way the module's developer intended rather than having to edit lua files or deal with poorly mapped controls.

 

If I were going to build my own panel, it would be a lot like this one.

[streakeagle]

Mine is supposed to be here tomorrow and I just ordered last Fri. Can’t wait to try it out.

 

I have the throttle and startup panel plugged in and working. I am very happy with the results. Have fun when you get yours up and running!

[streakeagle]

I put the Warthog stick with the Warthog grip and 15 cm extension, the VKB stick with the MCG Pro grip and the straight 10 cm extension, and the WinWing stick/grip with minimum extension side by side. The MCG Pro grip is tall, so it is almost as high as the other sticks despite the short extension. So they all have similar ranges of motion from fully forward to fully aft. The WinWing stick feels almost identical to the Warthog stick crossing the center. The only difference I really feel is that the WinWing has harder spring resistance out of the box (I haven't tried the different cam springs provided). Despite harder springs, the WinWing feels smother than the Warthog... i.e. no sticktion of any kind, just the cam detents as you cross the center and the spring forces. So, if you have a Warthog, the WinWing is an upgrade. But the VKB is by far lighter and smoother as you cross the center while still using heavy springs. I can still feel the cams moving across the center, but it is buttery smooth. I don't feel any kind of hard click or transition the way the Warthog and WinWing do.

 

I originally bought the VKB looking for a better feel near the center. I didn't want to deal with the clunky transition nor the sticktion that made precision flying difficult. I didn't know there was going to be an F-14 grip. I didn't plan on getting an adapter for my Warthog grip. I didn't know TM was going to release a Hornet grip and that I would be able to adapt it to the VKB, too. I haven't tried the Virpil stick yet, but among the HOTAS I have owned (Saitek X-36 USB, X-45, X-52 Pro, Warthog, VKB, and WinWing), the VKB still has the crown.

[streakeagle]

On the bright side, the desk mount for the WinWing stick appears to work just fine with the VKB Gunfighter base. The spacing between the mounting holes is almost identical. But the VKB mounting holes are just a tad too small for the provided bolts. So I could either make a custom bottom plate matching the WinWing plate or use slightly smaller bolts. The advantage of the deskmount over my current setup is being able to adjust the height of the stick. If I use a shorter grip with the 10 cm extension, I can raise it up. If I use a longer grip and the 20 cm curved extension, I can lower it down.

[streakeagle]

Installed the latest version of SimAppPro and installed the latest firmware with no problems. The software looks really nice. I am out of time. I have to get up early for work tomorrow. But this really cool!

[Kungfupanda1]

I put the Warthog stick with the Warthog grip and 15 cm extension, the VKB stick with the MCG Pro grip and the straight 10 cm extension, and the WinWing stick/grip with minimum extension side by side. The MCG Pro grip is tall, so it is almost as high as the other sticks despite the short extension. So they all have similar ranges of motion from fully forward to fully aft. The WinWing stick feels almost identical to the Warthog stick crossing the center. The only difference I really feel is that the WinWing has harder spring resistance out of the box (I haven't tried the different cam springs provided). Despite harder springs, the WinWing feels smother than the Warthog... i.e. no sticktion of any kind, just the cam detents as you cross the center and the spring forces. So, if you have a Warthog, the WinWing is an upgrade. But the VKB is by far lighter and smoother as you cross the center while still using heavy springs. I can still feel the cams moving across the center, but it is buttery smooth. I don't feel any kind of hard click or transition the way the Warthog and WinWing do.

 

I originally bought the VKB looking for a better feel near the center. I didn't want to deal with the clunky transition nor the sticktion that made precision flying difficult. I didn't know there was going to be an F-14 grip. I didn't plan on getting an adapter for my Warthog grip. I didn't know TM was going to release a Hornet grip and that I would be able to adapt it to the VKB, too. I haven't tried the Virpil stick yet, but among the HOTAS I have owned (Saitek X-36 USB, X-45, X-52 Pro, Warthog, VKB, and WinWing), the VKB still has the crown.

 

 

Thanks for your regular review!

 

 

 

I'm on the fence between a Winwing Joystick and throttle combo but have concerns when I saw the cam detent when transitioning past the centre.

 

 

 

The throttle looks really awesome but if I had to pair the VKB MCG MkIII to a Winwing throttle the cost would be significantly higher when purchased separately.

 

 

 

Besides the Winwing throttle I think the next in line would be Thrustmaster Warthog throttle but that was launched 10 yrs old. I don't consider Virpil an option because its like a lottery trying to get one.

 

 

 

Given that you have a VKB which is smoother is there a reason why you wouldn't consider keeping the VKB and pair it with the Winwing Throttle?

[streakeagle]

Given that you have a VKB which is smoother is there a reason why you wouldn't consider keeping the VKB and pair it with the Winwing Throttle?

 

I can assure you, I have pared the VKB GF stick with the WinWing throttle. I may as yet find a use for the WinWing stick, but it won't be for my main cockpit setup with the throttle and TPR rudder pedals.

Edited May 28, 2020 by streakeagle

[streakeagle]

It was incredibly easy to configure the throttle axes as sliders and create a custom profile that makes the push-through afterburner detents work perfectly with the F-14 Tomcat.

 

The push-through detent is probably not the best thing for helo collectives, but it shouldn't interfere too much.

[dburne]

Dayem this throttle is tempting...

Must hold out. Must hold out.

[Svsmokey]

Dayem this throttle is tempting...

Must hold out. Must hold out.

 

You know you won't :)

[VirusAM]

You know you won't :)

 

 

 

I tried to hold (throttle only option) but I couldn’t

[streakeagle]

One small problem with replacing my Warthog throttle with this one: In VR, I usually can find every switch by memory/feel with a little difficulty with the toggles that are covered by the throttle when it is forward. I wonder who long it will take me to learn to fly with this panel full of switches by braille. I also had memorized most of the control maps I was using with various aircraft. Now I have to create new control maps and there are a lot more controls to memorize.

 

I am missing my flaps switch the most. I have two switches that are filling that role depending on how the rest of the layout is mapped: Engine Anti Ice ON-OFF-TEST is in almost the exact same spot. If I just slipped a little knob over the top to make it stand out, maybe a flap shaped paddle like real flaps switches use. Alternatively, the three position pinky switch on the side of the outboard throttle grip is more accessible, just unrealistically easy to reach for most aircraft.

 

Once they release the new panel with a landing gear lever, tail hook lever, and a dedicated flap switch, I will be in heaven.