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Mirage 2000-5


Thinder

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Hey!

 

We have the Mirage 2000, thanks for that, it is a great plane but the C version is just a little short in ECM, radar, A2A missiles.

 

The upgrade to the 2000-5 would bring capabilities that would make it competitive vs F-16/18s, not to mention the cockpit and functionalities lacking on the 2000 C, all of that without having to change its flight envelope. All gain.

 

 

mirage2000-5.jpg


Edited by Thinder
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M-2000C. Mirage F1. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. F-5E Tiger II. MiG-29 "Fulcrum".  Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes. Fly like a Maineyak.

 

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I actually prefer a Mirage III for its feed back feel. Here is a good video about the Yom Kapor war in which The Mirage III was used. An interesting part of this video is what one of Israels top Ace said about the difference between the Mirage III and the F-16 @42.09 min towards the end. The Mirage III was one of the last pure fighter jet experiences there were. Just by my experience with the F-14 and the F-16 I can already tell that the F-16 is a very easy to fly computer dampened experience but with the F-14 you can actually feel like you are in full control of it. And I love all the feed back that the aircraft gives off. You don't need all the top tech to be a Top Ace.

 

 

IMG_20191114_092729.jpg


Edited by Evoman
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I actually prefer a Mirage III for its feed back feel. Here is a good video about the Yom Kapor war in which The Mirage III was used. An interesting part of this video is what one of Israels top Ace said about the difference between the Mirage III and the F-16 @42.09 min towards the end. The Mirage III was one of the last pure fighter jet experiences there were. Just by my experience with the F-14 and the F-16 I can already tell that the F-16 is a very easy to fly computer dampened experience but with the F-14 you can actually feel like you are in full control of it. And I love all the feed back that the aircraft gives off. You don't need all the top tech to be a Top Ace.

 

 

 

IMG_20191114_092729.jpg

 

I agree that a Mirage III would be a valuable addition to DCS collection, but then again, which variant?

 

The reason why I posted this topic is that the 2000 C is gonna be my first module in this game, and I intend to take on fighters equipped with more modern systems with it.

 

The airframe and flight envelop remains the same, which would limit the amount of work needed for it, we're probably will see a Rafale in this game too, how about a Mirage F1 C?

 

 

Thanks for the pic and infos though, I have read nearly all there is to read in English or French about the use of the Mirage III by the Israelis pilots, including a meeting with French pilots where they demonstrated how they didn't hesitate to go passed "amber".

 

Amber refers to the color of the AoA lights in the Mirage III, passed this, it is a region of the AoA where the AdlA pilots never though the aircraft would behave safely.

 

That's how many of their A2A kills were achieved and it's a capability FBW aircraft doesn't have, although you'll need to be seriously good and know what you're doing to get there...


Edited by Thinder

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M-2000C. Mirage F1. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. F-5E Tiger II. MiG-29 "Fulcrum".  Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes. Fly like a Maineyak.

 

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I have not seen any info about any developer planning to make the Rafale yet. Maybe in 10 years it may be a little more feasible for a developer to be granted a license.

But I do have some good news. I just looked at this website that features the current status and future confirmed modules that are planned from every developer and the Mirage 2000-5 is listed as in development.

 

These are the only other French jets that are planed so far by RAZBAM.

https://dr.squirrelboy12.com/DCSDevelopers/

 

 

RAZBAM

Mirage 2000-5 - In Development

Mirage III - Planned

Dassault Super Étendard - Planned

 

 

Aviodev

Mirage F-1 - In Development

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The upgrade to the 2000-5 would bring capabilities that would make it competitive vs F-16/18s, not to mention the cockpit and functionalities lacking on the 2000 C, all of that without having to change its flight envelope. All gain.

 

 

Raz has a pretty full plate and they seem to be continually adding projects. As they are still doing much to complete the m2000 as it is, I think it's unreasonable to believe that they should switch gears and upgrade an unfinished projects into a different variant. ED is doing that for a second time with BS3, but that's continued evolution of a very, very legacy product.

Additionally, balance as it exists in other games doesn't exist in DCS, and thankfully not. That leads to aircraft which are accurate, but "competitiveness" isn't a consideration, nor should it be. The m2000 is a fun plane. Enjoy it for what it is.

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If I am not mistaken the french asked Razbam to do a 2000-5 for training since they liked what they saw with the C.

 

On the other hand I would give a kidney for ANY Mirage III or V, Of course I would Add my left Eye for a Nesher...

 

I belive the CJ would be the most widely use or "stand in"... but since the Cirano isn't worth a dam, I would go the Israel way and DO Neshers... or the "Field Upgraded" Mirage V ;)

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Now that we have lots of post 2000s stuff, I agree that a more multirole and capable Mirage 2000 would be cool to have.

 

Though, I still would prefer a Mirage III before. Want some of that 60s-70s magic back in the sim personally :)

 

I'd also enjoy a Mirage 2000D.

 

I seem to recall that Razbam said they will eventually consider making 2000-5, especially now that they are in direct contact with AdA. But when and if, we don't know yet, Razbam has many irons in the fire.

Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V

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  • 3 weeks later...

Additionally, balance as it exists in other games doesn't exist in DCS, and thankfully not. That leads to aircraft which are accurate, but "competitiveness" isn't a consideration, nor should it be. The m2000 is a fun plane. Enjoy it for what it is.

 

Perhaps the C, being an "icon" is regarded as such, but the Mirage 2000 was upgraded to the 5 and 5 MkII for some good reasons, and it would certainly be a match for the F-16 and F-18 in this game, right now, it doesn't really have a niche, the C being outclassed in terms of radar, weapons, and avionics, by fighters which first flew and entered service before it, so there is a reason for the 5/5 MkII to exist in the game.

 

The 5 will have the advantage of putting the Mirage 2000 closer to the F-16 and F-18 in this game, it has a few tricks on its own, in particular the capability to fire MICAs in Track While Scan mode, completely discreet shots.

 

The RDY radar and its electronic suite are also way better than that of the C and it retains its close combat capabilities and maneuverability, max Mach, ceiling (Mach 2.2+/60.000ft), all gain on a BVR engagement, those characteristics should give it an edge in term of weapon energy, high/fast is also where the Mirage should feel at ease, it was designed for this.

 

r530-110.jpg

 

Then there is the MkII version (Qatar) equipped with with fourth generation avionics, and the possibility to see the MICA NG by 2026 (Extended range, double-pulse rocket motor, enhanced manoeuvrability, IR matrix seeker, AESA EM seeker).

 

https://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/defense/customer-support/operational-aircraft/mirage-2000/

 

://www.flightglobal.com/multi-role-mirage/25376.article

 

http://https://www.mbda-systems.com/air-dominance/eclair-m/

 

https://www.mbda-systems.com/press-releases/mbda-to-develop-the-next-generation-of-the-mica-missile/


Edited by Thinder

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M-2000C. Mirage F1. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. F-5E Tiger II. MiG-29 "Fulcrum".  Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes. Fly like a Maineyak.

 

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[…]right now, it doesn't really have a niche, the C being outclassed in terms of radar, weapons, and avionics, by fighters which first flew and entered service before it, so there is a reason for the 5/5 MkII to exist in the game. […]

Wait, what?

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Wait, what?

 

 

Don't tell me that you believe that the 2000 C is equal to the F-16 and F-18 as they are in this game right now, that's the primary reason for the 2000 5 to exist.

 

How about you try to fight a 2000 5 flying an early block 10 with AIM-9M and AIM-7?

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M-2000C. Mirage F1. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. F-5E Tiger II. MiG-29 "Fulcrum".  Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes. Fly like a Maineyak.

 

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No, but I'm saying that said F-16 and F-18 'as they are in this game right now' certainly did not fly or entered service before the Mirage did. They aren't to be expected to be equals. I don't deny that there are good reasons why Dassault further developed the Mirage and, obviously, builds more capable versions now. I'd also like that one in DCS for sure. Just that argument doesn't make much sense to me.

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No, but I'm saying that said F-16 and F-18 'as they are in this game right now' certainly did not fly or entered service before the Mirage did. They aren't to be expected to be equals. I don't deny that there are good reasons why Dassault further developed the Mirage and, obviously, builds more capable versions now. I'd also like that one in DCS for sure. Just that argument doesn't make much sense to me.

 

I was talking about their respective service entry date, not their block or version.

 

In the case of the F-16, Block 1 started to be delivered to diverse Air Forces from the end of 1981, nearly two years before the AdlA Mirage 2000 C, 1981 for the VFA -125 F-18 A.

 

So my argument makes perfect sense, since the F-16 in this game is at least an upgraded block 50 with a F110-GE-129 engine, AN/APG-68 V(5) radar, AIM-120 AMRAAM, AIM-9 X HMD etc according to the manual, very much the same in the case of the F-18.

 

So, in short, they out-class the 2000 C as much as a 2000 5 would outclass a block 1 or an early model of F-18 A, that's why a 2000 5 is needed in this game, to offer another alternative to those two US fighters, then again if you want to put the 2000 level with them you're talking Mirage 2000 MkII with HMD.

 

I'll be happy with a 2000 5, but as it is, the C variant is just not on par with the US fighters, especially because it was a cheap solution when the ACX fell out, it never was fully developed from stock.

 

As it is, it is only in the class of the Block 1 F-16 and pre-1992 F-18 A.

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M-2000C. Mirage F1. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. F-5E Tiger II. MiG-29 "Fulcrum".  Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes. Fly like a Maineyak.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
This site is so outdated.

 

 

It is out of date but it is still the best place where someone new can get a decent overview of what the current pipeline looks like among all the developers. If this site or another where kept up it would really cut down on the multiple new threads we see here for aircraft that are already in development or planned. There are a lot of people that don't do their research before posting. At least this out of date site still helps out guiding people to the developers site that would like to find out more the latest update on an aircraft. The site has a link to each of the developers websites.


Edited by Evoman
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I know Razbam has a lot on their plate, but.

 

The 2000C was my entry into DCS, and I am French, so getting to fly the Mirage again but be on par with modern US jets in the game would be really great. Life without Fox3's and datalink is just not the same in multiplayer (even PvE).

 

I know there is this collaboration with our Armee de l'Air, so maybe this would motivate them to make the -5 as well? One can only hope, and be patient.

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  • 7 months later...
On 6/10/2020 at 10:13 AM, Thinder said:

 

Perhaps the C, being an "icon" is regarded as such, but the Mirage 2000 was upgraded to the 5 and 5 MkII for some good reasons, and it would certainly be a match for the F-16 and F-18 in this game, right now, it doesn't really have a niche, the C being outclassed in terms of radar, weapons, and avionics, by fighters which first flew and entered service before it, so there is a reason for the 5/5 MkII to exist in the game.

 

The 5 will have the advantage of putting the Mirage 2000 closer to the F-16 and F-18 in this game, it has a few tricks on its own, in particular the capability to fire MICAs in Track While Scan mode, completely discreet shots.

 

The RDY radar and its electronic suite are also way better than that of the C and it retains its close combat capabilities and maneuverability, max Mach, ceiling (Mach 2.2+/60.000ft), all gain on a BVR engagement, those characteristics should give it an edge in term of weapon energy, high/fast is also where the Mirage should feel at ease, it was designed for this.

 

r530-110.jpg

 

Then there is the MkII version (Qatar) equipped with with fourth generation avionics, and the possibility to see the MICA NG by 2026 (Extended range, double-pulse rocket motor, enhanced manoeuvrability, IR matrix seeker, AESA EM seeker).

 

https://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/defense/customer-support/operational-aircraft/mirage-2000/

 

://www.flightglobal.com/multi-role-mirage/25376.article

 

http://https://www.mbda-systems.com/air-dominance/eclair-m/

 

https://www.mbda-systems.com/press-releases/mbda-to-develop-the-next-generation-of-the-mica-missile/

 

Even India has the Mirage 2000 I/TI which is the Mirage 2000-5 MkII just named Mirage 2000-5 I/TI I stands for India.

Also that the Mirage 2000-5 MkII would be a great as we now have the F-18, F-16, and the JF-17.

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On 3/1/2021 at 2:51 AM, tosmonaute said:

Razbam please do it and i will buy it,even i already bought the C version.

And for sure i won't be the only one!

 

Mirage 2000-5  is +1 for me

+1 same  here

please Razbam :worthy:

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Big +1

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Dcs: F/A-18C, F-16C, F-14, A-10C, A-10C II, AV-8B, MiG-21bis, M2000C, C-101, AJS-37, F-5, MF1, Bf-109K4, AH-64, UH-1, Ka-50, Mi-24, FC3, SC

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That is possible lot of ressource of RAZBAM work already on dlc module, but only for French Air force needs, first on M2000-5 and may be rafale later,  because M2000-C is getting to old (no fox3),  that can be explain why other module are just maintained and slow dev. I dont know if they will release one version donwgraded for an public add on.  i will surely buy when done, but must wait some years.

 

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Edited by jpbordi
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It all depends on RAZBAMS availability to dedicate time to developing another variant and if they even have the required clearance and license to be able to do it.

Also keep in mind that RAZBAM has a lot of other modules that are currently in development and planned.

 

These are a few of those other aircraft in development or planning stages.

F-15E
Mig 23
Super Tucano
IA-58 Pucara
AMX
EE Lightning
Sea Harrier FRS.1
Mirage III (or) IAI Dagger (either one, not both)
Dassault Super Etendard

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Surely Mirage III, not same story,  dagger is a copy of Mirage V, i prefer the original, Mirage III & V is alway in service in some countries like pakistan 92 Mirage III, 82 Mirage V, as bomber rule high speed and ground attack. Used in case of lot of conflict.

 

For the M2000-5,  if they started since 2019, may be we will see something after 3-5 years work. we saw already the big rework of M2000-C update in this case. the first version was already deliver in summer 2020, after will come lot of delivery for capabilities to french air force, long term A330 MRTT phoenix, rafale and other component, alphajet?pilatus?A400M?transall?   But no fantasm, the priority for razbam is the customer not us. 

my source, french only sorry,  Network Mass Simulation project (jump 3m0s)

 


Edited by jpbordi
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