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G-LOC too easy...


raptr12
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The point of the Viper having a G-limiter is so that you can pull 9 G sustained. Right now you pass out at 9G after like 5 seconds which is a severe disadvantage. With the simulated "black out" G effects you are actually limited to about 7G in the Viper... From a balancing aspect, the F-16 just gets annihilated by the F-18/Flanker/Mirage and other fighters that can pull high alpha and point at you. In order for the F-16 to have a chance, the G-LOC resistance needs to be increased, imo for every fighter, because it is far to easy to start seeing black at the first sign of 7G+, but especially for the viper since the 9G limiter is the main advantage it has in a dogfight.

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Well the model needs to also take into account some other factors such as G onset rate, time since g warmup, amount of time at high G, and amount of time at high negative G. You totally could blackout after 9G after only a few seconds if you add on that G really quickly and your piolt is already tired from doing 9G's already. Now our understanding of Gloc has come a long way and modern Gsuits give a trained piolt around 8.3G sustained for a many minutes at least and at best up to 9G's for a max of a few min (source below) assuming the full lower body G-suits and Positive pressure breathing became a thing. But just making it so you black out slower at 9G is not necessarily accurate there's a lot of factors at play. In short it will probably take a while to do right and ED has already said their working on it. Now not sure if that means we'll get to it in a few years or its actually being worked on but still give it time. https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a296761.pdf

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Not to mention that the Viper pilot should have a much greater tolerance to high G with a seat that is tilted 30 degrees back. Also, the pilot's feet are higher than the buttocks, so that the blood does not drain to such an extent from the upper body. When will we finally feel that the Viper pilot tolerates high G better?

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Well the model needs to also take into account some other factors such as G onset rate, time since g warmup, amount of time at high G, and amount of time at high negative G. You totally could blackout after 9G after only a few seconds if you add on that G really quickly and your piolt is already tired from doing 9G's already. Now our understanding of Gloc has come a long way and modern Gsuits give a trained piolt around 8.3G sustained for a many minutes at least and at best up to 9G's for a max of a few min (source below) assuming the full lower body G-suits and Positive pressure breathing became a thing. But just making it so you black out slower at 9G is not necessarily accurate there's a lot of factors at play. In short it will probably take a while to do right and ED has already said their working on it. Now not sure if that means we'll get to it in a few years or its actually being worked on but still give it time. https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a296761.pdf

 

We should also account for dehydration of the pilot, how much sleep he got, what his psychological state is, if he worked out legs yesterday... :megalol: joking aside:

 

They don't need to model this perfectly, it just needs to be way easier to pull g's so that the the viper isn't useless in a dogfight. Some of the modeling you are talking about is extremely detailed and I don't think it's really that necessary. Going in assumptions should just be 1. professional pilot, 2. modern g-suit, 3. warmed up. F-16 has arguably the highest G-onset of any aircraft since you can just pull immediately to the limiter without worrying about over-g, but even so, professional pilots don't have issues with it.

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We should also account for dehydration of the pilot, how much sleep he got, what his psychological state is, if he worked out legs yesterday... :megalol: joking aside:

 

They don't need to model this perfectly, it just needs to be way easier to pull g's so that the the viper isn't useless in a dogfight. Some of the modeling you are talking about is extremely detailed and I don't think it's really that necessary. Going in assumptions should just be 1. professional pilot, 2. modern g-suit, 3. warmed up. F-16 has arguably the highest G-onset of any aircraft since you can just pull immediately to the limiter without worrying about over-g, but even so, professional pilots don't have issues with it.

 

 

Agreed. Every IRL military pilot seems to comment on how poorly the DCS pilot handles G. CW Lemoine comes to mind.

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Agreed. Every IRL military pilot seems to comment on how poorly the DCS pilot handles G. CW Lemoine comes to mind.

 

Exactly. This guy does 10 seconds at 12G and I can't pull 8G for 3 seconds in DCS:

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Not only on F-16.

 

it's just especially problematic in the F-16 as you desire the area between 7.5 and 9g to get an advantage.

 

I wouldn't get my hopes up though.

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Does turning on Oxygen Pressure make a difference? I read it does in real life, but I didn't test scientifically in the sim. It's the green lever next to your right thigh, the rearmost on the oxygen panel.

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Does turning on Oxygen Pressure make a difference? I read it does in real life, but I didn't test scientifically in the sim. It's the green lever next to your right thigh, the rearmost on the oxygen panel.

 

Nope, no difference in DCS.

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I read it does in real life, but I didn't test scientifically in the sim.

 

 

No it does not really (at least not that I ever learned nor experienced)

 

O² supply helps in retarding hypoxia. Not G-LOC. Hypoxia is not enough O² in blood cells. G-LOC is rather "no blood at all".

 

 

Maybe it could retard a bit the color loss (?) ... but not the LOC.

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That switch that’s being talked about on the O2 panel has an option to force air under pressure into the mask as well as inflating the rear bladder in the back of the pilots helmet to aid in AGSM breathing, by default this is off. To enable move the switch from the on position all the way up unfortunately I don’t think this currently modelled.

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That switch that’s being talked about on the O2 panel has an option to force air under pressure into the mask as well as inflating the rear bladder in the back of the pilots helmet to aid in AGSM breathing, by default this is off. To enable move the switch from the on position all the way up unfortunately I don’t think this currently modelled.

 

Yep, the PBG setting does nothing.

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From my understanding and experience, the rapid onset of stagnant hypoxia from +Gz is too high to be prevented by a pressure demand system. It stands to reason it may have some effect, but marginally effective at best (read negligible). If you G-LOC, once you’re out, you’re out. However, 100% PPO2 will help with recovery from hypoxia (whether hypoxic or stagnant), so there’s that.

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That switch that’s being talked about on the O2 panel has an option to force air under pressure into the mask as well as inflating the rear bladder in the back of the pilots helmet to aid in AGSM breathing, by default this is off. To enable move the switch from the on position all the way up unfortunately I don’t think this currently modelled.

 

Oky I see. Is it indeed not a matter of O² but just to help "inflating the lungs".

That doesn't increase G tolerance.

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Maybe this is an option they add later… you can setup your personal fitness in the logbook and DCS calculates your tolerance level for the sim. Later combinate with fitness data from your smartwach. And actual DCS says that we all are 50 year old guys, BMI of 45 without any tolerance against g forces...

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It's a known issue. ED stated it was high priority and was supposed to be fixed by the beginning of this year. Nothing has been heard since.

 

Its just typical ED fashion

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+1 This is getting somewhat frustrating while trying to use the F16 for dogfighting pvp.

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No it does not really (at least not that I ever learned nor experienced)

 

O² supply helps in retarding hypoxia. Not G-LOC. Hypoxia is not enough O² in blood cells. G-LOC is rather "no blood at all".

 

 

Maybe it could retard a bit the color loss (?) ... but not the LOC.

 

It helps indirectly. It forces air down your throat making it easier to breathe. Since it's hard to breathe in general at 9G the mask helps a lot with allowing you to breathe easier during an "anti-G straining maneuver" and therefore sustain the G's for longer periods of time.

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Maybe this is an option they add later… you can setup your personal fitness in the logbook and DCS calculates your tolerance level for the sim. Later combinate with fitness data from your smartwach. And actual DCS says that we all are 50 year old guys, BMI of 45 without any tolerance against g forces...

 

To be fair, fatter dudes with slower blood flow actually have a higher tolerance to G in theory.. haha

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To be fair, fatter dudes with slower blood flow actually have a higher tolerance to G in theory.. haha

 

Yep that`s true. I`m kind a relieved when i first hear that before i went up to do spin/areobatic training couple years ago (civilian side)

 

but no i still didn`t make it on 5G pull the first time. :surrender:

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what i don't understand is why ED modeled our pilot with the older oxygen mask. I believe USAF viper pilots use the JHMCS paired with the MBU23 combat edge system. I'm no expert, but i thought the combat edge system helped with G's.

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