How am I missing wires?

[kraze]

 

 

The hook doesn't hit the wires every time.

In the example on the screenshot I've missed only the very first wire but the hook simply clipped through the next three.

 

 

Am I missing something? Or do you need like superprecise approach and angle to grab onto them?

 

 

I know there's a tutorial mission but it's rather needlessly complicated and since I'm having trouble with the very final bit of it (landing) - restarting it and spending 10 minutes every time to just repeat the final approach is kinda time consuming

[dSAF Dancer]

If you are not landing with on speed AOA, so with the E-bracket centered over the velocity vector, the hook is bouncing over the cables. This is not simulated visually but it's effect is simulated.

 

Good carrier landings in a correctly flown case 1 pattern need hours of training around the boat, so don't give up, just continue flying patterns.

 

If your problem is in the final aproach phase, then just keep the hook up and after having boltered, go around without retracting gear or flaps, stay on speed and climb to 600 feet, then turn back into the downwind of the carrier and repeat multiple times.

[High_Flyer]

Silo is probably right in that your hook is bouncing over the cables due to lack of on speed AoA. However, without seeing you perform a Case I approach, there’s no real way for any of us to tell you where you’re going wrong.

 

Are you able to record yourself performing a Case I approach and landing? If you can and are willing to upload the video to the forums then the community can pinpoint exactly what needs to be corrected in your case.

[Raisuli]

Or a track file would be even better. Trust me, you're not the worst at this, and I still have my .trk files from my first attempts (I keep most of them, but not all). Even today I the LSO just threw up the phone and quit because kones like me were allowed into his pattern.

[Mikeck]

Yeah, you’re past the 3 wire and it LOOKS like your nose wheel is still up in the air. Hard to tell. But you can’t hit the carrier flared like you would on an air field. Need to watch your AoA and push that plane flat on the deck.

[Sandman1330]

Forgive my stupid question, but you have purchased and installed the supercarrier module, correct?

 

If you haven’t both purchased and installed via the module manager, you can’t catch any wires on the new SC. (I think that’s the one you are using in the photo?)

 

I’ve seen a few guys who have forgotten to install it and had this problem.

[Razor18]

Yeah, you’re past the 3 wire and it LOOKS like your nose wheel is still up in the air. Hard to tell. But you can’t hit the carrier flared like you would on an air field. Need to watch your AoA and push that plane flat on the deck.

 

 

"flat on the deck", meaning what? Not the 3point landing, right?

[High_Flyer]

"flat on the deck", meaning what? Not the 3point landing, right?

 

Absolutely not. I believe a 3 point landing is automatically graded a cut. The mains always take the brunt of the force. Plus, if you do a 3 point landing, your hook isn't in the ideal position to catch a wire.

[Brun]

Yeah, you’re past the 3 wire and it LOOKS like your nose wheel is still up in the air. Hard to tell. But you can’t hit the carrier flared like you would on an air field. Need to watch your AoA and push that plane flat on the deck.

Just no.

 

On-speed AoA of 8 degrees and a 3 degree glideslope means the aircraft's attitude should be ~5 degrees nose-up. You can see that clearly on the HUD of any landing done correctly.

[kraze]

Thanks for the advice guys. Here's one of the tracks, it's not perfect by far but I'm landing within the E bracket more or less and on top of the wires - still missing

landing2.trk

[Razor18]

Absolutely not. I believe a 3 point landing is automatically graded a cut. The mains always take the brunt of the force. Plus, if you do a 3 point landing, your hook isn't in the ideal position to catch a wire.

 

 

OK, just because it looks like using a words "flat on the deck" caught other one's eyes too... :smartass:

[Razor18]

Thanks for the advice guys. Here's one of the tracks, it's not perfect by far but I'm landing within the E bracket more or less and on top of the wires - still missing

 

 

Oh boy, "not perfect"???... sorry to say that, but you didn't seem to do anything right at all. I suggest you go back to basics and read how to fly a proper landing to a carrier (no matter if Case I or straight in for practice). What you showed is maybe OK for a runway landing (learned probably in other sim than DCS?), but a carrier landing is a totally different ballgame, not even close to it. If you do not have the patient for that, DCS might not be for you. At least watch some DCS carrier landing videos, there is a ton of them on Youtube, explaining everything to do it right.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Razor18

[currenthill]

Here's a good showcase of how it's done. The nose wheel touches just a tad after the rear wheels, just as it should with the correct AoA and glideslope.

 

[Razor18]

Good post in itself, but I think he needs to learn to walk first, then run. See his track for yourself. A whole lot more of basics needed there, than to watch your video... :thumbup:

[currenthill]

I totally agree! OP posted the track while I was still typing my post, haha. Need to get my posting speed up.

[High_Flyer]

If you do not have the patient for that, DCS might not be for you

 

Bit of a harsh statement to make based off of a track file. I haven’t got a chance to look at it myself yet but no matter how poor somebody’s flying is doesn’t mean they don’t have the eagerness or patience to get better. Everybody starts somewhere and the first times are never pretty. I didn’t start with DCS, rather I started in FSX flying a Cessna back in 2013, and my first landings were atrocious. But I still went on to read the manuals, watch videos, and put in the dozens of hours required to develop the skills necessary to land that Cessna like a champ. I had the patience and eagerness to get better and do things properly. Overtime I moved onto PMDG airliners (consisting of long nights reading FCOMs and FCTMs) and eventually DCS with the Hornet. But fast forward 7 years from when I first tried to land that Cessna in FSX and I’m currently enrolled in a part 141 flight school landing real Cessna 172s pursuing a career in aviation. Point is, my terrible landings 7 years ago was in no way reflective of my patience and attitude toward learning, and neither should anyone else’s be.

 

You have good intentions, and your advice is helpful and rock solid, I just felt that particular line was unnecessary.

[Razor18]

Maybe wrong sequence of sentences. What I wrote, in context, was:

 

"I suggest you go back to basics and read how to fly a proper landing to a carrier (no matter if Case I or straight in for practice)." then

 

"If you do not have the patient for that, DCS might not be for you." By that I meant patience to learn from the basics. Because DCS learning curve is very steep, if you want to ever fly it right. And also I didn't state he doesn't have patience, I said IF.

 

Apologies from all if misphrased.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Razor18

[CBStu]

The FA-18 has a quick action Case 1 mission. I use this for straight in practice. You start about 8 miles out at about 3000ft. Once you hit the deck, just do L Shift-R to restart the mission.

[kraze]

Eh I been playing the series since Flanker 2.5 and went through several A-10C campaigns till this point (not to mention more "casual" FC3), also was playing Falcon 4 / BMS for years so, eh, I got patience to learn. It's that in the case of a training mission having to start over and listening to the guy asking you to set comms, directions and hit spacebar again and again kinda takes time that I'd rather spend practicing that hardest bit.

 

 

I was just wondering if carrier landings have SOME shortcuts or do they indeed require THAT precise/by-the-book of approach - because with enough skill with airfields you can do whatever kind of twisted landing you want.

 

 

With carrier landings it seems that you need to touch the wire in a very specific way for the hook to get grabbed. And it's what always has been the toughest thing for me in any game, way since that Super Hornet sim from 1999.

Edited May 22, 2020 by kraze

[Mikeck]

Just no.

 

On-speed AoA of 8 degrees and a 3 degree glideslope means the aircraft's attitude should be ~5 degrees nose-up. You can see that clearly on the HUD of any landing done correctly.

 

When you hit, yes...not as you are rolling past the 3 wire. Looking at the vapor, it looks like he hit near one and it’s still up. Main gear takes the hit and then push it into the deck. You don’t fly flared like landing an f-16 on a runway. You don’t see many carrier landings where the Bolter is moving across the deck with the nose wheel up. So...just yes, if he is hitting with his nose too high and bouncing the bar. As soon as the main gear hits, push it into the deck

[Razor18]

 

I was just wondering if carrier landings have SOME shortcuts or do they indeed require THAT precise/by-the-book of approach - because with enough skill with airfields you can do whatever kind of twisted landing you want.

 

With carrier landings it seems that you need to touch the wire in a very specific way for the hook to get grabbed. And it's what always has been the toughest thing for me in any game, way since that Super Hornet sim from 1999.

 

The very basic to fly carrier landings is to fly at "on speed AoA", simply straight and level. Suggest try to learn this first, before trying to make turns, climbs and descents, then fly patterns after putting all this together.

 

On speed Aoa means 8.1 degrees of AoA (not to confuse with pitch!). After trimming the aircraft to the proper AoA, you do not touch the trimm, but do not use the stick for pitch either, only for bank. Climbs and descents will be controlled by thrust from then on.

For practice I suggest go out over open water on a comfortable attitude of 3-5000 feet. Straight and level, reduce your speed under 250 kts to lower gear and flaps to FULL (HALF is used to takeoff). Reduce speed further (there might be some ballooning or nose down when lowering flaps, you can correct it with stick just yet. Then as speed is coming down to closer to 150 kts, you will start to trimm nose up, while keeping the VV on the horizont with the throttle. Trimming nose up, you will see the E-bracket coming lower and lower with every trimm movement. You should keep trimming back slowly, step by step until the middle segment of the E-bracket comes down and remains level with your VV. Now you are at "on speed AoA". From then on no pull or push on stick, just throttle up or down to climb, descent and also for level flight. Try flying level first, this gives enough challange for anyone for a first try. The VV keeps lagging a bit, so you should glance a the speed value when you fly level, and try to keep that with the throttle, not just try to stop the tendency. The E-bracket will stay with the VV, but E-bracket has nothing more to do with touchdown position placement. You will fly the aircraft so that the orange Ball (left side of deck) stays level with the green datum lights row. If it is above, you are high. If it is below, you are low. For that you will need to place the VV somewhere between the wires and the deck's right hind edge or the "crotch", because only then will the hook (being lower than your eyes) catch any wire. This is what "fly the Ball" means.

 

It is a bit tricky and sensitive, but you will learn it. If you will have the patience, as a mentioned earlier, that is... :smilewink:

Edited May 22, 2020 by Razor18

[David OC]

Did this long ago (external view is loud!!). Its had a few hits tho. Other case 1 to watch there too, video in video and controls showing.

 

 

Link here

Edited May 22, 2020 by David OC

[Brun]

When you hit, yes...not as you are rolling past the 3 wire. Looking at the vapor, it looks like he hit near one and it’s still up. Main gear takes the hit and then push it into the deck. You don’t fly flared like landing an f-16 on a runway. You don’t see many carrier landings where the Bolter is moving across the deck with the nose wheel up. So...just yes, if he is hitting with his nose too high and bouncing the bar. As soon as the main gear hits, push it into the deck

I don't think you understand the difference between a flare and simply being nose-up with constant AoA. The Hornet isn't flared but certainly doesn't land 'flat' as you have suggested it should...

 

 

I'm pretty confident the nose wheel isn't deliberately pushed onto the deck either. That's just physics happening.

[kraze]

As recommended - launched the Instant Action landing and only noticed that I'm coming at an incorrect angle like only a mile away from the carrier (those 10 degrees), so had to quickly readjust the direction and went on a straight approach only a few seconds away from the deck. Aimed the FPM in between the furthest wire and the end of the deck (as was recommended above), while staying barely within E and...

 

 

[Diesel_Thunder]

I was just wondering if carrier landings have SOME shortcuts or do they indeed require THAT precise/by-the-book of approach - because with enough skill with airfields you can do whatever kind of twisted landing you want.

 

 

With carrier landings it seems that you need to touch the wire in a very specific way for the hook to get grabbed. And it's what always has been the toughest thing for me in any game, way since that Super Hornet sim from 1999.

 

Nope, it is very specific and everything must be done correctly in sequence to insure success. I am new at this as well, and have been practicing this for about 3 weeks and still stink at it. The new Super Carrier is tougher than the old Stennis as well.

 

Two videos that helped me out a lot and break it down are from Lex, and Jabbers:

 

 

 

Bankler's excellent training mission for Case 1 landings is very helpful as well. It grades and gives feedback on all phases of the landing (initial, the break, downwind, the turn, and the groove). That mission uses the old Stennis, and is available here:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=221412

 

Three thing that also helped me out was breaking down individual stages of the sequence:

 

1 - Ignore the boat. Pick an airfield, and practice touch and gos. Use the TACAN to help gauge your distance from the field. When I did this, I would climb to 5,000 feet and do a long final. A 3º glideslope translates to about 300 feet descent per mile, 5,000/300=16.67 mile final. Once I got comfortable doing that at 5k feet, I dropped down to 4k and continued to practice, only reducing altitude as I got more confident. Refuel as needed, I ended up burning several tanks of fuel doing this. This helped learn the aircraft behavior.

 

2 - Ignore the boat. Set your bingo fuel to 2k. Take off from an airfield near water, and then go fly over the water at 800 feet. Get into landing configuration (hook, gear, full flaps, and on AoA) and work to maintain that 800 feet. This teaches you to work the throttle in order to maintain altitude. Your going to constantly work the throttle. Then do level turns at 30º bank. Turn 180º while maintaining 800 feet. Using cardinal directions (N, S, E, W) simplifies the math for your turns. Once you get the hang of that, do descents down to 600 feet, and then climb back up to 800 feet. Keep practicing the climbs and descents. Once you get that down, then do descending 180º turns, again 800 down to 600 feet. Keep practicing, and head back to your airfield for fuel once you get the bingo warning. Repeat as needed.

 

3 - Ignore the boat. Set your bingo fuel to 2k. Take off from an airfield near water, and then go fly over the water at 800 feet. Except this time, you are going to practice nothing except the break turn. Pick two opposing cardinal directions (N and S, or E and W) and fly that heading at 350 kts. When ready, throttle to idle, speed brake out, left bank to ~70º, and pull ~3G. Watch your attitude to maintain 800 feet. Gear out at 250, shallow your bank angle to 30º, half flaps at 220. Your speed brake should retract automatically when your flaps deploy, Full flaps around 190-180 kts. Stop your turn at 180º and get on trim. Fly like that a bit, then throttle up and clean up the aircraft (flaps up, gear up). Get back to 350 kts and do it again and again until you get the bingo warning. Land for more fuel and repeat as needed.

 

Once you get comfortable with that, then try to do Case 1 landings on the boat. It's going to take a lot of practice. My three practice techniques above can be boring, but necessary to develop the skills needed. It helped me out. One other thing I learned the hard way, is that the bank angle scale at the the bottom of your HUD is not marked in 10º increments. It's marked off in 15º increments, with two little ones marking 5º. Not knowing this at first caused my turns to be too steep.

 

Also, stop practicing if you are getting frustrated, take a break from it. Go blow stuff up for a while and come back to landings another time.

 

I can't recommend Bankler's mission enough for this practice. Here's a screenshot of what his mission gives you for feedback after each approach:

 

 

Good luck fellow rookie!