Power seems down as of 2.5.6.49314

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Power seems down as of 2.5.6.49314

 

I have been away from Fishbed for a while.

Gave it a test with latest build.

My test Instant Action/Caucasus/Cold Start.

Aircraft clean with 100% internal fuel (3K), no stores except shells.

From cold start to at Nalchik to unrestricted climb on normal full afterburner. 35-45 pitch.

Seems weak.

I could not climb higher then 30K feet. A 32K it looses speed to 140 knots and looses lift with stall, with power at 100+full AB.

I recall being able to get to 42K then claw up to 49 or 51K feet, in older versions.

[HWasp]

You might be doing something wrong.

 

 

Just tested right now: 2 minutes and 20 seconds after brake release I reached 10000 m (33k feet) holding TAS between 1000 and 1200

 

 

5 minutes and 35 seconds after brake release it reached Mach 2 at 12500m

 

 

35-45 degrees might be ok for the initial climb but then you need to reduce pitch to maintain proper speed. This is not a MiG-29...

 

 

For reference: Mirage 2000 clean : 2 minutes from brake release to 33k feet (Mach 0.9+) and 4 minutes 50 seconds to Mach 2 at 45k feet, so it's like 20 seconds and 45 seconds difference flying similiar profiles.

Edited May 26, 2020 by HWasp

[HWasp]

20000m Mach 2 and climbing. (65k feet)

Edited May 26, 2020 by HWasp

[rossmum]

I haven't felt a difference. I'm usually pretty close to the deck and have only done a few higher alt intercept runs since the patch, but I haven't noticed any difference in my ability to hold around M0.95 with a full air to air load at low level or hold tight turns. I threw the thing up to about 55 or 60k ft the other day and it seemed happy up there too, and for the intercepts I was holding a climbing left hand turn for about 300 degrees and at 500-600km/h IAS and then flattening it out, burner the whole time, and was closing on my target at M1.9 by the time I reached its altitude at 35,000ish.

 

Climb profiles are a thing, that's probably why you were having issues. I start flattening my climb out once I pass about 15-20,000 when I do go upstairs.

Edited May 26, 2020 by rossmum

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Mig21 unrestricted climb 2.5.6.49718

 

Mig21 unrestricted climb 2.5.6.49718

 

Track attached.

Had trouble breaking 41K feet. This with empty aircraft with 60 % fuel. No emergency AB. Only mil power+ AB (normal).

 

I also had a bit of trouble taxing aircraft slowly. The front gear caster kept turning. I had to a lot of rudder+wheel brake correction. Much more then before. But I have not flown Mig-21 in a while. Still I notice that cast front gear wants to turn either to left or right by itself. A behavior that , in earlier times, was due to hard landing and damaged gear. However all gear indicator lights were ON after landing. Gear looked OK, but it still wanted to turn by itself.

Mig_21_unrestricted_climb.trk

[Art-J]

The front wheel issues (came with latest OB patch as a side-effect of new suspension model tweaks) have been highlighted to the devs, they're aware.

[HWasp]

Mig21 unrestricted climb 2.5.6.49718

 

Track attached.

Had trouble breaking 41K feet. This with empty aircraft with 60 % fuel. No emergency AB. Only mil power+ AB (normal).

 

.

 

 

Can't play your track because new version came out today, but let me guess: You simply pitched up to like 30 degrees nose up and kept it there all the way to 41k?

 

What makes you think, that the plane should behave differently? Where did you read that? Because what you expect here is F-16/MiG-29 level of performance. If you want to fly the 21 up there, you must follow a reasonable climb profile and keep the speed under control. I wouldn't fly it above 40k if speed is less than Mach 1.4.

 

Look, if you think, that there is problem with the performance here, you need to download the RL MiG-21 flight manual, that is available on this forum https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3457419&postcount=2, find some relevant information and then test it against DCS.

 

Please don't waste the developer's time with posts like that with zero research.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Thats actually a pretty good guess. I kept pitch at 20-30 25 avg. Maximum performance unrestricted climb. If I use emergency AB for more 10 seconds, engine flames out once I take it out of AB. If I use emergency AB a second time within 20 seconds after first emergency AB, the engine flames out for good, and will not do air-restart. Of course this was back 2.5 and 2.5.5.

So OK, how do you claw your way to 60K in DCS Fishbed? I cant do it in ANY DCS aircraft. Highest ever for me, was FC3 F-15C, empty with 30 % fuel, taking off Nellis with standard day met. Clawed my way up to 51K , had to stay in AB almost all time.

[HWasp]

Thats actually a pretty good guess. I kept pitch at 20-30 25 avg. Maximum performance unrestricted climb. If I use emergency AB for more 10 seconds, engine flames out once I take it out of AB. If I use emergency AB a second time within 20 seconds after first emergency AB, the engine flames out for good, and will not do air-restart. Of course this was back 2.5 and 2.5.5.

So OK, how do you claw your way to 60K in DCS Fishbed? I cant do it in ANY DCS aircraft. Highest ever for me, was FC3 F-15C, empty with 30 % fuel, taking off Nellis with standard day met. Clawed my way up to 51K , had to stay in AB almost all time.

 

With the MiG-21: Start climbing around Mach 0.9 and keep that speed by reducing pitch until you reach around 10000m (33k feet).

 

2. You have to stop climbing and start to accelerate in level flight. Between Mach 1 and 1.4 it accelerates very slowly, you need some patience. If you go into a shallow descent, that might speed things up.

 

Between Mach 1.4 and 1.6 you'll start to get more power

 

3. Above Mach 1.6 acceleration will really kick in you get lots of power, so you can start climbing again as you accelerate towards Mach 2

 

4. Once you are at that speed you can climb to space. Engine will die somwhere above 70k feet, but until then it's a rocket.

 

It's basically the same with every plane in DCS: you need to go supersonic if you want to climb really high.

[TLTeo]

Yep, that was also a standard climb profile for interceptions. Climb to about 30kish at subsonic speeds, shallow dive down to ~20k ft or so while accelerating to Mach 1.4 or so, supersonic climb to your target.

[rossmum]

Screenshots taken from just before I hit peak of climb -

 

 

Full combat load (2 R-3R, 4 R-60M, 800l tank, 3000l internal fuel, full gun). Departed Nalchik 0702, reached peak of climb at slightly above 70,000ft around 0715, landed at Sochi at 0720 with about 300l of fuel remaining after some mild aerobatics on the way down. No emergency burner use at any point and I actually screwed up and bled some airspeed that I could've used to try shooting for 75 or 80, and my belly tank jettison was delayed. With a clean aircraft I have no doubts I could attain those numbers.

 

Regardless what you're flying, you're never going to be able to reach anywhere near your aircraft's ceiling if you just try maintain a constant pitch angle. Air density and engine performance are kind of important.

Edited May 28, 2020 by rossmum