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Beautiful map, but VR?


imacken

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Well, you are on a 2080ti...and arguably one of the fastest processors... so you will account performance wise for a very small percentage of the user base... and at over 600 ft in my reverb I can tell you my performance is “spotty” at best...in my 1080ti and on what is functionally the same processor... and over a housing estate if it is forward view I get some quite unacceptable performance on exactly the same settings as I get acceptable performance on other maps.

 

So your pushing the envelope is functionally unusable for me...how can you argue for... keeping “us”from having a map that is enjoyable... I’m happy that it works for you. Of course you might say, well upgrade your card or some such, but that’s not the point, when I bought the map it the min specs were still above the need for vr on that map. And even if I load the map on default Vr settings the performance gets “spotty” in most scenarios.

 

In fact ED need to optimise the map, they know it, we know it, and you likely do to... because you will fly below 600 ft...and also those housing estates weren’t really there in wwII ...as well as a number of other things... etc...

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But I don't have that even now. I have no problem with frame rates above 600ft agl already, and using reverb. Why would you argue for lesser quality?

Sorry, I just do not understand your reasoning. Surely it is in everyone's interest to push the envelope....

 

The envelope is always being pushed and most current hi-spec games/sims cannot be run at all out max settings and very high frame rates. Like me you probably have one of the highest spec PCs in our community but that still doesn't deliver extreme fps in hi spec VR. I notice you have the reverb, whilst Talisman and I have the hi-res Pimax at around double the pixels of the reverb. That's not a denigrating of your system just an observation but you see we are also pushing the envelope. Adding pointless objects just makes it all the harder.

 

The old FSX and current P3D grahics settings allow the selection of object 'level', most people select Normal. If the DCS objects had a similar classification then perhaps some generally pointless terrain objects like old cars and piles of dust could be on a top-level and excluded by selecting a lower level. At the moment IIRC we only have distance as a selection. Of course ED are not going to change their graphics system but it's an example of how the player experience could be enhanced for those players (most?) who are not running the latest hi-spec machines but want to move forward in areas like hi res multi-screen or VR. Perhaps the mapmakers have some kind of methodolgy like that or perhaps it's not so complicated to simply exclude such objects from a version of the map.

 

For me and people like Talisman the off-line experience is sterile compared with flying with and against other real players. I might just as well buy a console game. You spend your time walking through the French countryside? Well, that''s really of no interest to me and I certanly wouldn't be inspired by old Renaults, hand carts and piles of dust. That is more for those world-building games. Ground war and tanks? OK that's a dimension we used to have in other sims but again those pointless objects are just a drain on the systems.


Edited by klem

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But I don't have that even now. I have no problem with frame rates above 600ft agl already, and using reverb. Why would you argue for lesser quality?

Sorry, I just do not understand your reasoning. Surely it is in everyone's interest to push the envelope....

 

in fact this mod https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=278726 gives me similar performance to what you are seeing above 600 feet... so i guess we are both fine ... unless we want to land, or take off, or bomb, or strafe a target ...:megalol:

 

seriously though the above mod made a difference to my perf over the channel map even in built up areas :pilotfly:

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The envelope is always being pushed and most current hi-spec games/sims cannot be run at all out max settings and very high frame rates. Like me you probably have one of the highest spec PCs in our community but that still doesn't deliver extreme fps in hi spec VR. I notice you have the reverb, whilst Talisman and I have the hi-res Pimax at around double the pixels of the reverb. That's not a denigrating of your system just an observation but you see we are also pushing the envelope. Adding pointless objects just makes it all the harder.

 

The old FSX and current P3D grahics settings allow the selection of object 'level', most people select Normal. If the DCS objects had a similar classification then perhaps some generally pointless terrain objects like old cars and piles of dust could be on a top-level and excluded by selecting a lower level. At the moment IIRC we only have distance as a selection. Of course ED are not going to change their graphics system but it's an example of how the player experience could be enhanced for those players (most?) who are not running the latest hi-spec machines but want to move forward in areas like hi res multi-screen or VR. Perhaps the mapmakers have some kind of methodolgy like that or perhaps it's not so complicated to simply exclude such objects from a version of the map.

 

For me and people like Talisman the off-line experience is sterile compared with flying with and against other real players. I might just as well buy a console game. You spend your time walking through the French countryside? Well, that''s really of no interest to me and I certanly wouldn't be inspired by old Renaults, hand carts and piles of dust. That is more for those world-building games. Ground war and tanks? OK that's a dimension we used to have in other sims but again those pointless objects are just a drain on the systems.

 

 

You are being deliberately obtuse. I never said I spent all my time walking through the french countryside and to try to alter the context in order to use it as a form of a passive aggressive slur is beyond the pale.....


Edited by Tinkickef

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in fact this mod https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=278726 gives me similar performance to what you are seeing above 600 feet... so i guess we are both fine ... unless we want to land, or take off, or bomb, or strafe a target ...:megalol:

 

seriously though the above mod made a difference to my perf over the channel map even in built up areas :pilotfly:

 

Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a try.

 

 

Yup its a bit bad close to the ground, I get a bit of blurring and a feeling like I'm going crosseyed when turning onto the runway or pulling up after releasing my bombs in the 47.

It's no slideshow, but I guess it is caused by reprojection making false assumptions and trying to adjust with every interleaved frame.

 

It is not just the channel map though, I have had the same with normandy and PG too, ever since 2.56 dropped.

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you see i don't have that problem on PG... go figure

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It`s going to be interesting the hear the gnashing of teeth from those that purchase the new 3090 etc. When they still find themselves struggling with their VR fps in DCS. I just cannot see next gen hardware being able to brute force a solution to ED`s failings in relation the the core development and proper optimization of their game engine. I suspect it`s half the reason there is no dynamic campaign yet. Put multiple sea. air and ground units on a map and the whole VR experience coughs and splutters before coming to a grinding halt. The Channel map is virtually unplayable, add a complex scenario and it will make your eyes bleed. ED have to drop everything else and modernise their game engine asap. Adding more bells and whistles is beginning to resemble putting lipstick on a pig.

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I enjoy my channel map in VR at 100% rendering, shadows off, medium distance on current hardware with fluid FPS.

 

Does not look like a pig to me.

 

Maybe you are confusing running like a pig with looking like a pig. As I said the map looks excellent, but runs very poorly in VR. That's with a 2080 and the Reverb on native resolution, flat shadows, etc. Add a complex scenario, forget about it. Some of the WW2 paid campaigns in DCS are unuseable in VR, and that's on the newly optimised Normandy map.

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If we read the comments over at the il-2 forums then, yes, we definitely need this level of detail!

Many posters there refer to the quality of the Maps of dcs.

If dcs world was only intended to be a fly over at 3000 feet World then maybe not... But there are helicopters and tanks. IL-2 GB now also has tank crew and that is why many people prefer more detailed maps (aside from bombing missions etc of course)!

 

I totally agree.

 

This is one of the reasons why I moved to DCS, the amount of realism not only with the aircraft but also the maps.

 

Developers are constantly moving the goalpost with what is possible to be done in CGI, imagine how it was like at the time where the best looked like Jane's Israeli Air Force, where the map pixels were the size of a building block in DCS.

 

CGI technology has made enormous progress, not only in terms of PC graphic power but also in terms of environment details and rendering, so we'd better accept the progress and embrace it, it's not gonna stop and it's all for our benefit.

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Then they need to up the minimum specs.

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Then they need to up the minimum specs.

 

Agreed. If people are buying the map based on the posting of overly optimistic minimum requirements and are disappointed to find a totally unplayable map, then yes the minimum specs need altering. That is the fault, not the map.

 

BTW I have implemented the 400000 mod you kindly posted and there is a definite improvement on the ground at Hawkinge. Normal taxying does not blur, but swinging onto the runway still does. It is not an earth shattering improvement, but it is noticeable. Unless I am seeing some sort of placebo effect.

It is an improvement well worth doing.

 

It always amazes me how people find these things..... and actually know what they are looking at when they do.


Edited by Tinkickef

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  • 4 weeks later...

Has anyone checked since yesterday's update? Haven't had time as yet, but intend to in the next couple of days.

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no different on the Channel map... maybe a little better over all

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  • 4 months later...

I don't normally complain about ED/DCS products, but honestly, this map is unusable in VR for me.

i though once I had upgraded to the 3090 that most of thses issues would have disappeared.  However, it is still horrible.  Doing a banked turn over any urban centre, e.g. Ramsgate (I think) in the Spitfire FF mission, is a stutter fest.  Just can't use this map.

It makes the Supercarrier performance look silky smooth!

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On 6/13/2020 at 6:54 PM, Kestrel Ironworks said:

Personally this video made me realize just why its so intensive, the commentator remarks at one point that "This looks like Post Scriptum"

 

 

 

Great video and looking forward to my new rig in the future that will run the damn thing!

 

I haven’t got DCS loaded up for now but that level of detail is great for later on I believe in another post in Forum I think Combined Arms thread the talk about controlled ground forces ..... albeit it would be great for ARMA type realism and sim emersions. Thx for video!

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just did a Spitfire flight around the Dover/Manston/Canterbury area, including low level through the cities in VR. I did not experience any performance issues except for 2~3 short stutters in an hour period, which is fairly average for all maps. 

 

i5-9600k OC'd 4.7Ghz, 32GB RAM, RTX2070, Odyssey Plus, VR shaders mods, graphics low (visibility medium, shadows low, MSAA off, terrain shadows off).

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10 minutes ago, Nealius said:

I just did a Spitfire flight around the Dover/Manston/Canterbury area, including low level through the cities in VR. I did not experience any performance issues except for 2~3 short stutters in an hour period, which is fairly average for all maps. 

 

i5-9600k OC'd 4.7Ghz, 32GB RAM, RTX2070, Odyssey Plus, VR shaders mods, graphics low (visibility medium, shadows low, MSAA off, terrain shadows off).

Of course, it's all down to settings, and yours are pretty low.  What I (and others) am saying is that with the same settings which work very nicely in all other maps, this one runs very poorly.  My CPU stats in fpsVR go through the roof circling round Ramsgate!

Needs optimising.

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2 hours ago, imacken said:

Of course, it's all down to settings, and yours are pretty low.  What I (and others) am saying is that with the same settings which work very nicely in all other maps, this one runs very poorly.  My CPU stats in fpsVR go through the roof circling round Ramsgate!

Needs optimising.

 

Low vs. High doesn't matter when comparing performance to other maps with the exact same settings. Channel performs better than Syria or even Caucasus for me. I confirmed this with some external filming with high settings, where I was able to zoom in on wooded areas and cities without any framerate loss. In Syria and Caucusus my frames get cut in half (or worse) when zoomed in on such regions. Channel performs better for me in both VR and non-VR.

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2 minutes ago, Nealius said:

 

Low vs. High doesn't matter when comparing performance to other maps with the exact same settings. Channel performs better than Syria or even Caucasus for me. I confirmed this with some external filming with high settings, where I was able to zoom in on wooded areas and cities without any framerate loss. In Syria and Caucusus my frames get cut in half (or worse) when zoomed in on such regions. Channel performs better for me in both VR and non-VR.

I’m glad it’s working well for you. 

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On 12/9/2020 at 10:31 AM, imacken said:

I don't normally complain about ED/DCS products, but honestly, this map is unusable in VR for me.

i though once I had upgraded to the 3090 that most of thses issues would have disappeared.  However, it is still horrible.  Doing a banked turn over any urban centre, e.g. Ramsgate (I think) in the Spitfire FF mission, is a stutter fest.  Just can't use this map.

It makes the Supercarrier performance look silky smooth!

Maybe I should've told people buying the biggest gpu won't necessarily give you the biggest performance. Oh wait, I did tell people but I was told I was wrong. More than once. 🙂

 

The stuttering in DCS, wether it's a map or a plane or a mission/campaign, it's on DCS' side, which Kate Perederko explained a few times. Legacy code and whatnot. 

Not to pee in your punch but still. Don't let marketing from NVidia-like companies fool you next time mate. 🙂

 

 

 

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58 minutes ago, dawgie79 said:

Maybe I should've told people buying the biggest gpu won't necessarily give you the biggest performance. Oh wait, I did tell people but I was told I was wrong. More than once. 🙂

 

The stuttering in DCS, wether it's a map or a plane or a mission/campaign, it's on DCS' side, which Kate Perederko explained a few times. Legacy code and whatnot. 

Not to pee in your punch but still. Don't let marketing from NVidia-like companies fool you next time mate. 🙂

 

 

 

Couldn't disagree more.  The 3090 has been an amazing upgrade from the 2080Ti in all respects, especially in DCS.  Unfortunately, this map and the SC are the only 2 exceptions, and that is because atm they are both heavily CPU bound.  Having said that the performance - although still being unacceptable - is a lot better than when I had the 2080Ti.

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On 12/9/2020 at 9:31 AM, imacken said:

I don't normally complain about ED/DCS products, but honestly, this map is unusable in VR for me.

i though once I had upgraded to the 3090 that most of thses issues would have disappeared.  However, it is still horrible.  Doing a banked turn over any urban centre, e.g. Ramsgate (I think) in the Spitfire FF mission, is a stutter fest.  Just can't use this map.

It makes the Supercarrier performance look silky smooth!

I don't think the way you put this is complaining, it reads more like objective feedback to me. OK, 'horrible' might be a bit subjective, but I think it's clear what you mean.

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