Beautiful map, but VR?

[Qiou87]

I am curious about which CPU people with the heavy stutter have? I tried this map in VR (Rift S, 140% SS) and was tempted by it, except for the low-level performance over cities which is indeed horrible. But my CPU is not the best (Ryzen 2600X) and it seemed (running Oculus Debug tools) that CPU frametime were responsible for the performance drop in these situations, GPU was stable. Unfortunately its replacement (5600X) hadn't arrived before the end of the free trial period.

 

So my question is, does this map still have poor performance with the strongest CPUs in VR (considering the 5600X I now have is amongst the best in single-thread so should be alright for DCS)? I will not buy it until I am sure that it will be playable... No issues for me over Syria, so I would like to reach a similar result on the Channel.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Qiou87

[Nealius]

I run an i5-9600k overclocked to 4.7 and have no problems over cities in VR.

[imacken]

2 hours ago, Nealius said:

I run an i5-9600k overclocked to 4.7 and have no problems over cities in VR.

All depends on your settings.

[Qiou87]

4 hours ago, imacken said:

All depends on your settings.

Would you care to elaborate? I run the same settings on all maps, as long as I get a stable mini 40 fps in the headset, it is fine for me. What settings are affecting The Channel so much and not the others? I can fly over any city in Syria, like Beirut or Damascus, without hyccups. I had a lot of hyccups flying over a small town in the Channel though, like Dover already. Didn't even try Dunkirk but it would probably have been worse. So I am just curious about what it takes to run The Channel smoothly, if a fast CPU is enough (now that I have one), or if other things are needed as well. Again, considering the fact that graphic settings would be alright for all other maps incl. Syria.

[imacken]

It's not 'what it takes' to run the map smoothly, it depends on how you have everything set up.

You can ramp up your settings to make more or less any scenario be either GPU or CPU bound in DCS.  So, everything is a compromise.

I tend to run pretty high settings with shadows, G2 on SS of 100% (3170x3170), MSAA x2, etc. and for everything in DCS I get acceptable performance except around towns in the Channel Map, and on deck of the Super Carrier.

I could of course reduce all these settings and have no issues, as a previous poster said, but it suggests to me that both these modules require optimising.

As a side note, the Channel Map is not CPU bound for me at all, the strain is on the GPU.

[Qiou87]

I generally agree, but most settings are GPU related. On the Super Carrier for example, whatever settings I was using, it was never smooth. Now with only a new CPU, same settings, I get 100% higher framerates (40 instead of 20) on the deck (even in a multiplayer server) which makes it much more enjoyable in VR.

 

And looking at my CPU and GPU frametimes whilst flying the Channel (alas, only with my old CPU, the new one hadn't arrived), there were some "spikes" of CPU usage, and overall CPU frametime increase around towns. That's why I was curious if people with the newest CPUs had any issues. Of course, optimization is probably needed but might not come until Vulkan (so late 2021, at best, acc. to the newsletter). In the meantime the question is, should I buy this map and can I enjoy it, or should I wait. 

[imacken]

I'm afraid I will have to disagree on that.  Supercarrier aside, almost all my scenarios are GPU intensive.  Sure I get some CPU spikes, but they are rare.  All borne out perfectly in fpsVR.

Yes, buy it. It's a beautiful map, just not as optimised as other parts of DCS, IMO.

[Nealius]

19 hours ago, imacken said:

All depends on your settings.

 

We've commented on this before, and it seems like I'm the only one who can run the map smoothly for whatever reason. With the exact same settings, I get lower framerates over Incirlik and Beiruit than I do over Canterbury. 

[Qiou87]

On 1/9/2021 at 5:58 PM, imacken said:

Yes, buy it. It's a beautiful map, just not as optimised as other parts of DCS, IMO.

Well, since my new CPU removed a great many bottlenecks I had with the previous one, I actually followed your advice and bought the map (and the Spit). I'll eagerly test it tonight and hope it is alright.

[Talisman_VR]

1 hour ago, Qiou87 said:

Well, since my new CPU removed a great many bottlenecks I had with the previous one, I actually followed your advice and bought the map (and the Spit). I'll eagerly test it tonight and hope it is alright.

 

Please get back with your thoughts on the map, as I am considering it and would value your feedback.

 

Thanks in anticipation.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

[Qiou87]

6 hours ago, Talisman_VR said:

 

Please get back with your thoughts on the map, as I am considering it and would value your feedback.

Well, the new CPU (Ryzen 5600X) didn't change much, it is still very bad over cities. I guess this is down to graphics settings, but I want to highlight that I am getting good performance over cities in all other maps. Here's hoping for some optimization in that regard, I don't understand how Syria can run perfectly over 60fps but the Channel is at 20fps over cities with the same settings.

[imacken]

4 minutes ago, Qiou87 said:

Well, the new CPU (Ryzen 5600X) didn't change much, it is still very bad over cities. I guess this is down to graphics settings, but I want to highlight that I am getting good performance over cities in all other maps. Here's hoping for some optimization in that regard, I don't understand how Syria can run perfectly over 60fps but the Channel is at 20fps over cities with the same settings.

That’s what I said several posts ago. There is no CPU issue on this map. It’s all GPU. 

[Qiou87]

10 hours ago, imacken said:

That’s what I said several posts ago. There is no CPU issue on this map. It’s all GPU. 

Any other game, I'd follow this blindly, but given how specific DCS sometimes proves to be when it comes to performance, I usually like to test it out for myself - nothing against you. Best example I can give is the Supercarrier, to me the deck is very detailed, you get shadows from the ground personnel, so it is easy to assume the GPU is the only factor for performance there. However I basically doubled my framerate on the SC deck just by getting a faster CPU.

My guess for this map's bad performance would be shadows, and maybe geometry/textures are too high on those houses. But i'm not about to play DCS without any terrain shadow, it's like those saying they remove trees to have smoother VR, sure but I fly low-level a lot (helo, WWII and Viggen), remove shadows and trees and it looks like a 2002 game.

 

Sadly I'll just have to wait for a better GPU (mine isn't slow though) and hope for some optimization. Maybe Vulkan can help with that, it was teased for a late-2021 arrival after all.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Qiou87

[Talisman_VR]

7 hours ago, Qiou87 said:

Any other game, I'd follow this blindly, but given how specific DCS sometimes proves to be when it comes to performance, I usually like to test it out for myself - nothing against you. Best example I can give is the Supercarrier, to me the deck is very detailed, you get shadows from the ground personnel, so it is easy to assume the GPU is the only factor for performance there. However I basically doubled my framerate on the SC deck just by getting a faster CPU.

My guess for this map's bad performance would be shadows, and maybe geometry/textures are too high on those houses. But i'm not about to play DCS without any terrain shadow, it's like those saying they remove trees to have smoother VR, sure but I fly low-level a lot (helo, WWII and Viggen), remove shadows and trees and it looks like a 2002 game.

 

Sadly I'll just have to wait for a better GPU (mine isn't slow though) and hope for some optimization. Maybe Vulkan can help with that, it was teased for a late-2021 arrival after all.

 

 

Many thanks for your feedback.  As I suspected, no Channel map for me then and that means I am unlikely to purchase the Mosquito either

I am really only here for WW2, but not diving in as my flight simulation of choice yet.  I will keep watching and waiting.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

[imacken]

7 hours ago, Qiou87 said:

Any other game, I'd follow this blindly, but given how specific DCS sometimes proves to be when it comes to performance, I usually like to test it out for myself - nothing against you. Best example I can give is the Supercarrier, to me the deck is very detailed, you get shadows from the ground personnel, so it is easy to assume the GPU is the only factor for performance there. However I basically doubled my framerate on the SC deck just by getting a faster CPU.

My guess for this map's bad performance would be shadows, and maybe geometry/textures are too high on those houses. But i'm not about to play DCS without any terrain shadow, it's like those saying they remove trees to have smoother VR, sure but I fly low-level a lot (helo, WWII and Viggen), remove shadows and trees and it looks like a 2002 game.

 

Sadly I'll just have to wait for a better GPU (mine isn't slow though) and hope for some optimization. Maybe Vulkan can help with that, it was teased for a late-2021 arrival after all.

 

The Supercarrier, as I said earlier, is one of the few examples of CPU bound situations in DCS, for me, at least.  (My CPU frame times are permanently in the red on fpsVR on the SC deck.)

Although I'm no expert, I don't believe Vulkan will make much difference either. AFAIK, it only spreads the CPU load.

I still find the Channel Map perfectly usable, but it is certainly not as smooth or well performing as the rest of DCS - SC aside - which is kind of frustrating as it is a very nice map. Oh well, I guess I'll just avoid the urban areas as much as possible for the moment.

[YoYo]

After last few patches (from 2020 OB) this map is ok for me in VR, stable 45 fps in HP Reverb, so nice. Now, Id like to see seasons :).

[Qiou87]

13 hours ago, YoYo said:

After last few patches (from 2020 OB) this map is ok for me in VR, stable 45 fps in HP Reverb, so nice. Now, Id like to see seasons :).

Would you care to share your settings and PC specs? I am interested to see how you achieve this smooth 45 fps, I would like to manage the same results.

[imacken]

34 minutes ago, Qiou87 said:

Would you care to share your settings and PC specs? I am interested to see how you achieve this smooth 45 fps, I would like to manage the same results.

His PC specs are on his sig. very similar to mine. 

[Qiou87]

3 minutes ago, imacken said:

His PC specs are on his sig. very similar to mine. 

I might be an idiot but with the new forum layout I don't see any signature (also checked his profile, same). And I am also interested in a screenshot of his ingame graphics settings, to understand if maybe one of them is OFF for him and ON for me, to explain the performance difference.  

Edited January 14, 2021 by Qiou87

[imacken]

His system specs show just under his graphic. Be useful if you put yours in your sig.  

[Qiou87]

1 hour ago, imacken said:

His system specs show just under his graphic. Be useful if you put yours in your sig.  

Alright so actually signatures were off by default, had to go into Settings to activate them. So all it takes to run this map is apparently an RTX 3090, good to know... 

[imacken]

Well, as you can see I have a 3090!!

[YoYo]

3 hours ago, Qiou87 said:

Would you care to share your settings and PC specs? I am interested to see how you achieve this smooth 45 fps, I would like to manage the same results.

 

You have in my signature, I have 3090 now, but with my 2080Ti in the last time was ok too. Here you have my settings in DCS http://yoyosims.pl/poradnik-vr-wmr-konfiguracja (scroll to down this page).

[Qiou87]

1 hour ago, YoYo said:

 

You have in my signature, I have 3090 now, but with my 2080Ti in the last time was ok too. Here you have my settings in DCS http://yoyosims.pl/poradnik-vr-wmr-konfiguracja (scroll to down this page).

Alright, thank you. Guess I'll have to wait for mythical optimization (and some stock so I can upgrade my GPU), because I run significantly lower settings than you (which is in line with my slower graphics card, although I also have a much lower resolution in my headset than your G2). But I am happy for those that run it smoothly, it is definitely a beautiful map!

Edited January 14, 2021 by Qiou87

[Talisman_VR]

OK, decided to give it a go and purchased this map.  FPS around the 50's, sometimes low 60's and sometimes 45 or a little less.  I used the instant action free flight sortie as a bench mark.  Of course, I have a lot of things turned off or on low settings on the graphics settings in-game.  Found the map enjoyable enough during the limited time I have spent flying it so far.  

 

My in-game Pixel Density is set to 1.0

Graphics settings below:

 

 

 

My rig specs below:

 

Processor: Intel Core i7-8700K Coffee Lake CPU, 6 Cores, 3.7 - 4.7GHz, overclocked 
Case: Fractal Design Define R6 Case - Black 
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Graphics Card 
CPU Cooler: Corsair Hydro H100x CPU Cooler  
Motherboard: Asus STRIX Z370-F GAMING
Memory: 32GB DDR4 3000MHz Memory (2 x 16GB Sticks) 
OS Drive: 1TB Samsung 970 EVO M.2 PCIe Solid State Drive 
Secondary Hard Drive: Seagate 2TB FireCuda SSHD Hybrid Drive  
Optical Drive: 24x DVD-RW Drive 
Power Supply: Corsair RM850x 80 PLUS Gold 850W PSU 
Sound Card: Onboard High Definition Audio 
Operating System: Windows 10 Home 64-bit 
Monitor Samsung 2433BW 24" TFT, 5ms response time, Res: 1920x1200

MS FF2 Joystick
Thrustmaster VG TWCS Throttle
Saitek Pro Flight Throttle Quadrant
MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals
VR Pimax 5k +
eDimensional AudioFX2 FF Vibration Headset 
JetPad powered by Gametrix (with SSA and SSW software)

Edited January 17, 2021 by Talisman_VR
new pic graphics