What's the maximum range for the Link 13 pod to receive proper image?

[sirrah]

I've been trying to get my AGM-84E's show up on the Link 13 pod. So far I only managed to get it working 2 or 3 times (mostly because of my incompetence). It seems every time I'm forgetting something.. setting the correct channel, actually linking the missile to the Link13 pod etc.. Safe to say I'm still learning :P

 

Anyways... To my question:

 

I just tried again on a distant target (can't exactly recall the distance to target, but probably somewhere around 30nm), missile only just gave me an in range message in the HUD. So I launched it and put my plane on autopilot in a 30 degree bank orbit. I had set the Link 13 distance to 20nm and when the timer got to 0 I actually did get a feed on my Link 13 screen (image change from the horizontal "snowy image" to a more steady image with the "crosshair" (sorry don't know the right term).

 

The image however, was extremely blurry. I wasn't really able to see anything. When the missile came close to its impact point I could barely see some white-ish spots (which were probably the vehicles I aimed at). Is it possible that I was simple to far away? And if so, how close would one need to be for a "good" image?

 

 

(sorry forgot to save the track file, but is was probably to big to attach anyway)

[jojo]

I've been trying to get my AGM-84E's show up on the Link 13 pod. So far I only managed to get it working 2 or 3 times (mostly because of my incompetence). It seems every time I'm forgetting something.. setting the correct channel, actually linking the missile to the Link13 pod etc.. Safe to say I'm still learning :P

 

Anyways... To my question:

 

I just tried again on a distant target (can't exactly recall the distance to target, but probably somewhere around 30nm), missile only just gave me an in range message in the HUD. So I launched it and put my plane on autopilot in a 30 degree bank orbit. I had set the Link 13 distance to 20nm and when the timer got to 0 I actually did get a feed on my Link 13 screen (image change from the horizontal "snowy image" to a more steady image with the "crosshair" (sorry don't know the right term).

 

The image however, was extremely blurry. I wasn't really able to see anything. When the missile came close to its impact point I could barely see some white-ish spots (which were probably the vehicles I aimed at). Is it possible that I was simple to far away? And if so, how close would one need to be for a "good" image?

 

 

(sorry forgot to save the track file, but is was probably to big to attach anyway)

 

From my test you can get the video feed out to nearly max range (50Nm), but the closer the better is the quality.

Also you have to point in the direction of the missile (toward the target) or 180° away from it and select "A ANT" to get the video feed from behind. Be careful to the range as you are heading away.

 

So watch your TTS timer and plan to stop your orbit when it gets to 0.

You may turn left/ right to lower closure speed to target, but if you keep turning you will progressively loose quality, and you should select "A ANT" if the missile is behind you :smilewink:

 

If you launch @M0.8/ FL300, you will be flying roughly 8Nm/mn, the missile will fly an average 9Nm/mn

 

Quite high work load at the beginning and lot of things to think about :joystick:

Edited June 8, 2020 by jojo

[sirrah]

From my test you can get the video feed out to nearly max range (50Nm), but the closer the better is the quality.

Also you have to point in the direction of the missile (to ward the target) or 180° away from it and select "A ANT" to get the video feed from behind. Be careful to the range as you are heading away.

 

So watch your TTS timer and plan to stop your orbit when it gets to 0.

You may turn left/ right to lower closure speed to target, but if you keep turning you will progressively loose quality, and you should select "A ANT" if the missile is behind you :smilewink:

 

If you launch @M0.8/ FL300, you will be flying roughly 8Nm/mn, the missile will fly an average 9Nm/mn

 

Quite high work load at the beginning and lot of things to think about :joystick:

Ok, that's very helpful thank you :thumbup:

[fjacobsen]

Using the TPOD for target confirmation, I can launch around 40 nM from the target.

Once the AGM-84E has been launched, I fly a full circle, for which I have plenty of time.

 

I might put the target 30-45° off my nose, or even turn tail (remember to use the aft antenna), befoe taking over targeting via the datalink.

 

The AG:84E seems only marginally faster than the F/A-18, so keep pointing towards the target might get You too close on it, if defended.

 

The AGM-84E is really a hybrid of many weapons.

Missile from the AGM-84 Harpoorn, warhead from the tomahawk cruise missile, datalink from the Walleye and IR-sensor from the Maverick.

[jojo]

After launch I orbit to stay away from the target. I monitor the TTS on store page, and I try to stabilise toward or away from the target but with wings level when TTS reach 0, so I can safely work head down.

[Theranthil]

I did some test on an airport with An26 on the tarmac (easy targets).

 

At 50 Nm it's really hard to spot anything and guide the missile.

At 30 Nm it's difficult but doable on big target (ships docked, A/C on apron).

 

If you don't perform the terminal guidance, I found the missile hits about 30 to 50 m from the target.

[toilet2000]

According to public sources (wiki) the AGM-62 Walleyes II datalink has a range of about 45 nm. Since the AGM-84E SLAM has the same datalink, the range should be pretty much the same, and it is pretty much that in DCS. You can get up to about 50 nm, but the image quality degrades really fast.

 

 

 

As for usable range, I found that at 40 nm, flying level (important as maneuvers tend to cause more interference/worse image quality) and selecting the right antenna (Aft if the missile is in the aft 180 degrees region of your aircraft), the image quality is decent enough to manage a good hit.

[Photon]

Getting the same results as most others here.

 

First time I tried to "stand-off" as much as possible, so I launched it at max range, which was around 65 miles at my alt/spd. Controlling it from that far away however, was impossible.

 

So yea. In Wags' video, he's like 20 miles from the target when taking over control, which makes the feed nice, but also puts you in harms way.

 

At 30 it's still good, at 40 it's ok, at 50 it's quite bad, and at 60-70+ it's a mess.

[lamboman43]

If you don't perform the terminal guidance, I found the missile hits about 30 to 50 m from the target.

 

This is an important note. The AGM-84E is not a fire-and-forget weapon. You are definitely intended to provide command guidance in the terminal phase (personally thats what makes it fun for me). The AGM-84H/K SLAM-ER is much more suited for fire-and-forget operations, especially if you're using it closer to it's max range of >130 miles, as our datalink pod, at least as it is simulated in game, just won't transmit video at those ranges. But a big part of that is the SLAM-ERs integration of Automatic Target Acquisition. And I doubt ED will be able to simulate that very well. An easy workaround would be to just hard code the missile to be more accurate against stationary targets.

[sirrah]

This is an important note. The AGM-84E is not a fire-and-forget weapon. You are definitely intended to provide command guidance in the terminal phase (personally thats what makes it fun for me). The AGM-84H/K SLAM-ER is much more suited for fire-and-forget operations, especially if you're using it closer to it's max range of >130 miles, as our datalink pod, at least as it is simulated in game, just won't transmit video at those ranges. But a big part of that is the SLAM-ERs integration of Automatic Target Acquisition. And I doubt ED will be able to simulate that very well. An easy workaround would be to just hard code the missile to be more accurate against stationary targets.

 

I don't want to argue with you, but when I enter exact coordinates (either manually or by using the tpod) won't that enable fire and forget?

 

(obviously won't work on moving targets though)

[lamboman43]

I don't want to argue with you, but when I enter exact coordinates (either manually or by using the tpod) won't that enable fire and forget?

 

(obviously won't work on moving targets though)

 

I don't think it was designed with the accuracy to do that. Everything I've read says that the reason you input the coordinates is to get the missile in roughly the right spot when it hits the terminal phase, after which it turns on the seeker and requires the operator to select the appropriate target.

If you scroll to the SLAM section at this link https://www.ausairpower.net/TE-Harpoon.html it explains how the SLAM works and could be employed by the Australian military.

 

But it's also important to realize that the SLAM was just implemented for us. There are more features that need to added for it, and it's very possible that the INS & GPS accuracy could be changed.

[toilet2000]

I don't want to argue with you, but when I enter exact coordinates (either manually or by using the tpod) won't that enable fire and forget?

 

(obviously won't work on moving targets though)

 

 

The SLAM is not a F&F weapon. The INS/GPS is not precise enough to guarantee a hit without manual terminal guidance. Basically, you can "hit coordinates", but your missile most probably won't hit those coordinates, but somewhere somwhat close to that point.

 

 

So yeah, real world tactic with the SLAM is to always manually guide it to the target. The SLAM-ER (AGM-84H/K) are the ones that are true F&F, both with a more accurate INS/GPS and an automatic target recognition seeker (such as what the AGM-154C JSOW Unitary should have too).

[sirrah]

The SLAM is not a F&F weapon. The INS/GPS is not precise enough to guarantee a hit without manual terminal guidance. Basically, you can "hit coordinates", but your missile most probably won't hit those coordinates, but somewhere somwhat close to that point.

 

 

So yeah, real world tactic with the SLAM is to always manually guide it to the target. The SLAM-ER (AGM-84H/K) are the ones that are true F&F, both with a more accurate INS/GPS and an automatic target recognition seeker (such as what the AGM-154C JSOW Unitary should have too).

Ok, thank you for explaining

 

The manual guidance is the most fun part of this weapon anyways :smilewink:

[fmedges]

Does anybody know if the degraded image quality vs range in DCS matches the real world values?

[jojo]

I don't want to argue with you, but when I enter exact coordinates (either manually or by using the tpod) won't that enable fire and forget?

 

(obviously won't work on moving targets though)

 

This is a 1990 missile.

There was no JDAM in 1990. There wasn't any GPS in car, and many planes didn't have GPS either.

 

F-16 didn't have targeting pod, there wasn't enough LANTIRN for F-15E Strike Eagle fleet in Desert Storm. Some crew went to Saudia Arabia with barely enough training, they were fortunate to have WSO who were trained for GBU on F-4E.

 

So by 1990 having a missile that can fly 50Nm, get close enough to put target in seeker FoV and send back video feed to adjust impact point was SciFi feature.

 

[Edit] Sorry, didn't saw previous answers.

Edited June 10, 2020 by jojo