Joystick hat trimming movement tone down

[Hotdognz]

Hi any chance the joystick hat trimming could be toned down a little, each move L, R U & D moves the trimming wheels quite a lot, even with a quick flick of the hat switch.

 

To test this I mapped the axis from my mixture control to a axis for rudder trim and was able to trim the P47 with more precise movements which made trimming so much easier.

 

Cheers

[Super Wabbit]

Totally agree, the trim is way too coarse when bound to a HOTAS, or even to a keyboard. Using the mouse wheel on the trim controls in the cockpit works well, would be nice to have that kind of fine tune adjustments on the HOTAS.

[Nealius]

I haven't found it to be coarse on my HOTAS.

[-0303-]

Don't have P-47 but ... they should just copy the P-51 mechanism. Small steps, hold down, goes faster. Copy this to Spitfire as well and all ED Warbirds. Simple and works well.

[Fri13]

Don't have P-47 but ... they should just copy the P-51 mechanism. Small steps, hold down, goes faster. Copy this to Spitfire as well and all ED Warbirds. Simple and works well.

 

That is how it is in Su-27 etc. You can actually use trim to do maneuvers and trim to the attitude.

With many others it is just too sensitive and shortest possible trim button press trims over etc. So you are either never in good attitude or getting by luck.

[rayrayblues]

It's not just warbirds. Trimming the F-86 will make you pull your hair out.

You have to do numerous adjustments of both the trim and stick and can

take a long time to get it right.

[BuzzU]

I agree it's too course. At least on the Warthog. One click moves it from rolling left to rolling right. We need something in the middle. The same with elevator.

 

Before you say it. The ball is centered.

[XAiracobraX]

I agree, using buttons for trim works well on P51D but moves too quickly on P47

[Badders46]

Agree with the above, all trim seems overly sensitive using TM hat switches to control

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[LeCuvier]

I also found the 3 trim wheels are too "fast" when controlled from the POV hat. I helped myself by reducing the "gain" parameter in "clickabledat.lua" from 0.025 to 0.0125.

Most people won't want to edit these files, but if anybody is interested I can share the detail.

[scoobie]

It's not only an issue with trimmers. There's a multitude of examples, various planes, various controls. For instance, try and bind ADF (ARK-5?) tuning crank in MiG-15 and you'll have a lot of fun trying to tune to a specific NDB It's next to impossible. If, however, you use the mouse scroll wheel on the crank, it works in nice small increments and tuning is easy. I did work around it by digging up in clickabledata.lua and/or default.lua (IIRC the file names correctly), but with a limited success - the crank does move slower, but I'd like it even slower and further tuning down didn't seem to work.

 

@LeCuvier - please do! Your controller related posts have helped many people even if some of them didn't reply on the forum. Myself included, so here's my "Thank you, Sir!"

I've learned from you and can't imagine flying a plane without tweaking those files to suit my HOTAS, my button box etc. If one puts Joystick Gremlin or similar software on top of that - it works wonders

 

[LeCuvier]

The file "clickabledata.lua" in the game folder " ...\Mods\aircraft\P-47D-30\Cockpit\Scripts" has these lines beginning with line 816:

            -- Aileron Trim Wheel
            elements["pnt_91"] = cabin_axis_limited(0, _('Aileron Trim'),  devices.CONTROLS, device_commands.Button_1, 91, 0.0, 0.025, false, false, {-1.0, 1.0})
            elements["pnt_91"].sound = {{SOUND_SW5}}
            -- Elevator Trim Wheel
            elements["pnt_92"] = cabin_axis_limited(0, _('Elevator Trim'), devices.CONTROLS, device_commands.Button_4, 92, 0.0, 0.025, false, false, {-1.0, 1.0})
            elements["pnt_92"].sound = {{SOUND_SW5}}
            -- Rudder Trim Wheel
            elements["pnt_93"] = cabin_axis_limited(0, _('Rudder Trim'),   devices.CONTROLS, device_commands.Button_7, 93, 0.0, 0.025, false, false, {-1.0, 1.0})
            elements["pnt_93"].sound = {{SOUND_SW5}}

The value 0.025 in the longer lines is the "gain" parameter. It determines how fast the respective wheel will rotate when the button bound to "Increase" or "Decrease" is depressed. I changed the gain values to 0.0125 to slow them down:

            -- Aileron Trim Wheel
            elements["pnt_91"] = cabin_axis_limited(0, _('Aileron Trim'),  devices.CONTROLS, device_commands.Button_1, 91, 0.0, 0.0125, false, false, {-1.0, 1.0})-- HWF changed Gain from 0.025 to 0.0125
            elements["pnt_91"].sound = {{SOUND_SW5}}
            -- Elevator Trim Wheel
            elements["pnt_92"] = cabin_axis_limited(0, _('Elevator Trim'), devices.CONTROLS, device_commands.Button_4, 92, 0.0, 0.0125, false, false, {-1.0, 1.0})-- HWF changed Gain from 0.025 to 0.0125
            elements["pnt_92"].sound = {{SOUND_SW5}}
            -- Rudder Trim Wheel
            elements["pnt_93"] = cabin_axis_limited(0, _('Rudder Trim'),   devices.CONTROLS, device_commands.Button_7, 93, 0.0, 0.0125, false, false, {-1.0, 1.0})-- HWF changed Gain from 0.025 to 0.0125
            elements["pnt_93"].sound = {{SOUND_SW5}}

I added this comment "-- HWF changed Gain from 0.025 to 0.0125" to each of the changed lines. It contains my initials, which helps me to find lines I modified.

You can make the gain values smaller if you want to slow the motion more, and of course you can use different gain values per axis.

As always: Use Notepad++ to edit the file, and don't forget to back your changed file up as any Repair or Update will restore the stock file.

PS: I don't have the Mig-15, so I can't help you there.

Edited January 20, 2021 by LeCuvier

[scoobie]

Hear, hear! That's how it's done, though it must be a "default_axis" or anything of this sort (above it's "cabin_axis_limited") - then you may tune gain.

 

Do you, by any chance, know what to do when the design is somewhat different - like this one:

 

In joystick file, there's this:

{pressed = iCommandPlaneIncreaseBase_Distance, up = iCommandPlaneStopBase_Distance, name = _('A-4 Sight Wing Span Adjustment Knob - Wing Span Increase'), category = _('A-4 Sight')},

 

Looks hard-coded, so I looked at clickabledata.lua and saw this:

 

elements["Wing_span_adjustment_knob"] =    {    
    class         = {class_type.LEV},
    hint          = _("A-4 Sight Wing Span Adjustment Knob"),
    device         = devices.A4_GUNSIGHT,
    action         = {device_commands.Button_1},
    arg           = {716},
    arg_value     = {0.0215},
    arg_lim       = {{0,1}},
    updatable     = true,
    use_OBB     = true,
    gain        = {0.1},
    cycle        = false
}

That's all there is to wing span adjustment, no "default_axis", no nothing, just this.
I tried to tweak arg_value and/or gain, but they seemed to do nothing (of course I was restarting DCS upon each change).
Maybe it's because the lever is driven by those iCommandPlane... things and they are something separate, independent from that structure above?
Or perhaps I just made some stupid mistake, I really don't know.

Then I made a silly forced attempt like this:

{pressed =  device_commands.Button_1, cockpit_device_id  = devices.A4_GUNSIGHT, value_pressed = 0.5, name = _('A-4 Sight Wing Span Adjustment Knob - Wing Span Increase EXPERIMENTAL'), category = _('A-4 Sight')},

but of course... it SETS the lever to a prescribed value (0.5 = the very middle of travel), instead of "moving" it by a specific increment/decrement from where it was an instant earlier
I have no idea how to approach this kind of design.

 

[LeCuvier]

@scoobie: It's not the same on every module, there is no common design standard. When I tackle a new one, I have to use trial & error and I'm not always successful. You mentioned MiG-15 earlier, so I guess this example is related to the MiG-15. I don't have that module and therefore I don't have any of the files. I can therefore not do much to help you.
From what I see, "Wing_span_adjustment_knob" is a pure axis and does not lend itself to Incremental commands.

Edited January 21, 2021 by LeCuvier

[scoobie]

Thank you, that's a piece of valuable information, too!
As for the MiG-15... (sigh) I mixed it all up. I bought the MiG and F-86 at the same time and I'm working on the files in both modules at the same time
In MiG-15 ADF tuning crank actually IS a default_axis(), so no problem - you simply adjust gain to your liking, as you showed above.
I was thinking about F-86 and not ADF tuning, but - as in example above - wing span adjustment on the gun sight (it's a bit too fast for me in numerous aircraft).
I can see that in different modules the "fashion" in which these files are written varies. "File styles", let's call it. Especially old modules seem to be more "stiff", whereas newer ones - more flexible. On average, at least. I'm trying to make a kind of "solution catalogue" for these different "file styles". I don't want fish, I want a fishing rod.

 

Anyway - back to the P-47 Spit (sorry) - for those of you who don't like trimming in P-47 (or any other controls, for that matter), all I can do is encourage you, people, to dive into it, modify those files, because quite often you'll be able to fine tune e.g. the axis response etc. and live happily ever after. LeCuvier showed how. You don't need to be a programming high priest, not at all!
That's, I think, a more sober approach to the problem than waiting until ED come and tune every nook and cranny in all the modules... which is especially discouraging for them, I think, because the "tastes" may vary between different users, who - to make things even worse - use different controllers! At the end of the day it may turn out that it's impossible for ED to please everyone.
So... it's easier and faster to do it yourself.

Just make sure you backup EVERY file you are to modify, for if you sc**w it up too much, the module won't even run. Then it's not overly funny  And you also need a tool to keep track of your changes, because each DCS update will RESTORE original files and thus you'll lose all your precious modifications. I'm using Git, but if you don't know what it is, I can't recommend it, instead try one of those easy to use mod managers etc., I hear they're really cool.

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by scoobie

[Hunter Joker]

On 1/20/2021 at 5:23 PM, LeCuvier said:

The file "clickabledata.lua" in the game folder " ...\Mods\aircraft\P-47D-30\Cockpit\Scripts" has these lines beginning with line 816:

            -- Aileron Trim Wheel
            elements["pnt_91"] = cabin_axis_limited(0, _('Aileron Trim'),  devices.CONTROLS, device_commands.Button_1, 91, 0.0, 0.025, false, false, {-1.0, 1.0})
            elements["pnt_91"].sound = {{SOUND_SW5}}
            -- Elevator Trim Wheel
            elements["pnt_92"] = cabin_axis_limited(0, _('Elevator Trim'), devices.CONTROLS, device_commands.Button_4, 92, 0.0, 0.025, false, false, {-1.0, 1.0})
            elements["pnt_92"].sound = {{SOUND_SW5}}
            -- Rudder Trim Wheel
            elements["pnt_93"] = cabin_axis_limited(0, _('Rudder Trim'),   devices.CONTROLS, device_commands.Button_7, 93, 0.0, 0.025, false, false, {-1.0, 1.0})
            elements["pnt_93"].sound = {{SOUND_SW5}}

The value 0.025 in the longer lines is the "gain" parameter. It determines how fast the respective wheel will rotate when the button bound to "Increase" or "Decrease" is depressed. I changed the gain values to 0.0125 to slow them down:

            -- Aileron Trim Wheel
            elements["pnt_91"] = cabin_axis_limited(0, _('Aileron Trim'),  devices.CONTROLS, device_commands.Button_1, 91, 0.0, 0.0125, false, false, {-1.0, 1.0})-- HWF changed Gain from 0.025 to 0.0125
            elements["pnt_91"].sound = {{SOUND_SW5}}
            -- Elevator Trim Wheel
            elements["pnt_92"] = cabin_axis_limited(0, _('Elevator Trim'), devices.CONTROLS, device_commands.Button_4, 92, 0.0, 0.0125, false, false, {-1.0, 1.0})-- HWF changed Gain from 0.025 to 0.0125
            elements["pnt_92"].sound = {{SOUND_SW5}}
            -- Rudder Trim Wheel
            elements["pnt_93"] = cabin_axis_limited(0, _('Rudder Trim'),   devices.CONTROLS, device_commands.Button_7, 93, 0.0, 0.0125, false, false, {-1.0, 1.0})-- HWF changed Gain from 0.025 to 0.0125
            elements["pnt_93"].sound = {{SOUND_SW5}}

I added this comment "-- HWF changed Gain from 0.025 to 0.0125" to each of the changed lines. It contains my initials, which helps me to find lines I modified.

You can make the gain values smaller if you want to slow the motion more, and of course you can use different gain values per axis.

As always: Use Notepad++ to edit the file, and don't forget to back your changed file up as any Repair or Update will restore the stock file.

PS: I don't have the Mig-15, so I can't help you there.

 

It pass IC?

Thx.

 

[LeCuvier]

2 hours ago, Hunter Joker said:

It pass IC?

Thx.

 

Yes, no problem with integrity check in MP.

[Drill]

Well .. I was not ; able to save any changes. says I do not have have permis to change files .. or i have no idea what im doing lol.

  But this was fix i was seeking . or hoped  to . 

 

 

[LeCuvier]

You need to start Notepad++ as admin.