Dogfighting in the jeff

[Sublimearrepentido]

In the a2a cac mission (thanks rudel) you fight a m2k

I cant win. Please no obvious "git gud" posts.

First is there a g limiter switch?

Second i cant seem to get on the mirages 6 while the mirage pwns me.

Is this a practice thing?

Ive seen the jf17 kick ass online

[sora_061]

In the a2a cac mission (thanks rudel) you fight a m2k

 

I cant win. Please no obvious "git gud" posts.

 

First is there a g limiter switch?

 

Second i cant seem to get on the mirages 6 while the mirage pwns me.

 

Is this a practice thing?

 

Ive seen the jf17 kick ass online

I have seen your post where you ask how to feed the gun. So yeah seeing you are new, it'll be frustrating dogfighting a Mirage since it's a mirage. First mistake you'll probably do is pull stick and loss all your energy.

Don't ever lose energy Jeff, it takes ages to recover energy which will make you a food for M2k. Watch Growling sidewinder's video on BFMs and ACMs.

Mirage is THE best dogfighter in DCS, if you are seeing It is getting thrashed in MP, then the pilot is either inexperienced in Mirage or the Pilot in other plane are really good and exploiting the weakness of mirage.

[foxwxl]

AI does not use the same FM as the player, M2K could be tough.

 

Jeff has a G limiter for AA/AG switch, keep it at AA.

And when near the sonic, G limiter will auto kick in, regardless the mode you selected.

[foxwxl]

Jeff has a good turn rate @320-350kts, below that your energy restore could be a huge problem, above that you will hit the G limiter(8G max).

 

But how to fight your enemy still depend on his A/C type, you will need to know his disadvantage.

[sora_061]

AI does not use the same FM as the player, M2K could be tough.

 

Jeff has a G limiter for AA/AG switch, keep it at AA.

And when near the sonic, G limiter will auto kick in, regardless the mode you selected.

I maybe wrong but in airstart G-limiter is already in AA mode when you have AA loadout

[Chiron]

if u use autostart or even manual u will get a warning and u will force switch to A/G or u will keep hearing the warning unless u are not flying with your fuel tanks

[killkenny1]

Fight against M2K was a real pickle...

Many tries, many fails, but in the end I somehow managed to bet it...

 

 

Shot down Mirage...

[Harlikwin]

Honestly the Jeff tends to be outclassed by most of the other airframes in WVR combat for a variety of reasons. I mean its not terrible, but kinematically its gonna get owned by Vipers, Cats, and Mirages. And at low speeds the hornet will outpoint it. It doesn't build E very fast so sortof like the hornet there. The Gun is fairly terrible for AA, and the PL5's aren't great and no HMCS means no easy shots for you.

 

I mean I've certainly gotten A/A kill in WVR ranges on various aeroquake servers, but most of that is because the rather low quality of the opfor.

[Chiron]

Honestly the Jeff tends to be outclassed by most of the other airframes in WVR combat for a variety of reasons. I mean its not terrible, but kinematically its gonna get owned by Vipers, Cats, and Mirages. And at low speeds the hornet will outpoint it. It doesn't build E very fast so sortof like the hornet there. The Gun is fairly terrible for AA, and the PL5's aren't great and no HMCS means no easy shots for you.

 

I mean I've certainly gotten A/A kill in WVR ranges on various aeroquake servers, but most of that is because the rather low quality of the opfor.

 

i disagree in some point and agree with other point ... yes its but if u use combat mode it will gave u a good boost and another thing in turn rate u can do wonder if u understand JF-17 more also u can override fly by wire and try to fly without it i did it a couple if times its not that horrible . plus u can win turn rate fight by being smart ...

 

but we have the worst vertical scan ever in this game ... somehow i dont know why DEKA is not talking about that of fixing it .... PL-5 is a very good short range missile not the best ofc but u can kill even skillful people if u cornered them well .... and also be smart .... i managed many time to shoot PL-5 from 10nm and got my kill by shooting the missile head to head no one will think that u launch the missile from that range and he will fly directly to the missile ..... without HMD i agree 100% its a big disadvantage to JF-17 cuz if u are trying to force F-16 to merge he can easily launch at u before u can say cheese :megalol::megalol:

 

end of talking any fighter in this game can be dangerous if u know how to use it that is all but ....... but ....... but Mirage is the most lethal fighter in DCS if we are talking about dogfight ....... WVR there is more than one actually dont forget about SU-27 and R-37 i can keep continue with non stop in every module cuz they all have their advantages and disadvantages there is no such a thing called perfect module

Edited June 8, 2020 by Chiron

[shaHeen-1]

Inb4 eurofighter typhoon

[sublime]

Inb4 eurofighter typhoon

 

Huh

[Harlikwin]

i disagree in some point and agree with other point ... yes its but if u use combat mode it will gave u a good boost and another thing in turn rate u can do wonder if u understand JF-17 more also u can override fly by wire and try to fly without it i did it a couple if times its not that horrible . plus u can win turn rate fight by being smart ...

 

but we have the worst vertical scan ever in this game ... somehow i dont know why DEKA is not talking about that of fixing it .... PL-5 is a very good short range missile not the best ofc but u can kill even skillful people if u cornered them well .... and also be smart .... i managed many time to shoot PL-5 from 10nm and got my kill by shooting the missile head to head no one will think that u launch the missile from that range and he will fly directly to the missile ..... without HMD i agree 100% its a big disadvantage to JF-17 cuz if u are trying to force F-16 to merge he can easily launch at u before u can say cheese :megalol::megalol:

 

end of talking any fighter in this game can be dangerous if u know how to use it that is all but ....... but ....... but Mirage is the most lethal fighter in DCS if we are talking about dogfight ....... WVR there is more than one actually dont forget about SU-27 and R-37 i can keep continue with non stop in every module cuz they all have their advantages and disadvantages there is no such a thing called perfect module

 

I guess I don't have the EM graphs to figure out what speed I should rate fight at in the Jeff, but you're probably right. I also agree about the VS mode, its not great, but then again it may not be in the real jet. I haven't had too much luck with PL5's though, but that could be any of a million different variables.

 

And as you said, they all have advantages and disadvantages.

 

Honestly I think at this point in modern air combat, designers have thought that getting to the merge is not going be that common, and therefore other aspects of plane optimized for BVR are considered more important. I have no doubt that my favorite pet-peeve about the jeff, the chaff/flare switch, IRL is a total non issue, because no one really uses Chaff anymore as missiles have pretty good chaff rejection logic and they rely more on jammers and towed decoys instead. But in DCS, chaf chaf is all we have..

[Harlikwin]

Inb4 eurofighter typhoon

 

Speaking of Cheeze… Yup this will be the cheeziest uber plane in DCS... But I bet the F-teen guys won't mind, because its made elsewhere.

[Chiron]

Speaking of Cheeze… Yup this will be the cheeziest uber plane in DCS... But I bet the F-teen guys won't mind, because its made elsewhere.

 

i agree 100%

[LJQCN101]

Best sustained turn rate at sea level happens roughly at 432kts/M0.65 with 50% fuel & 2xPL5. As a rule of thumb don't get slower than 350kts or your turn rate will drop rapidly.

[sublime]

:helpsmilie:

Speaking of Cheeze… Yup this will be the cheeziest uber plane in DCS... But I bet the F-teen guys won't mind, because its made elsewhere.

 

Well dont be too mean. Im an fteen guy. I love my f14. And she isnt cheeze.

Regardless ill prolly by the eurofighter. I agree im concerned how theyre gttn accurste data. But i have very fobd memories of ef2000 in the 90s..

[sublime]

Best sustained turn rate at sea level happens roughly at 432kts/M0.65 with 50% fuel & 2xPL5. As a rule of thumb don't get slower than 350kts or your turn rate will drop rapidly.

 

Thanks

[Harlikwin]

Best sustained turn rate at sea level happens roughly at 432kts/M0.65 with 50% fuel & 2xPL5. As a rule of thumb don't get slower than 350kts or your turn rate will drop rapidly.

 

Thank you.

[Harlikwin]

:helpsmilie:

 

Well dont be too mean. Im an fteen guy. I love my f14. And she isnt cheeze.

Regardless ill prolly by the eurofighter. I agree im concerned how theyre gttn accurste data. But i have very fobd memories of ef2000 in the 90s..

 

Its just endemic of the "arms race" you see on MP servers. The new F15E will basically be flown like a F15C online, no one will drop bombs with it.

[Tiger-II]

What altitude were you at? Jeff is very good at high altitude. I'm impressed.

 

A/G-1 for altitude, then when you get low can you drop it into A/A for BFM.

 

A/G-1 acts as a nice high-altitude alpha limiter so you don't just dump all your speed (easy to do at altitude in the Jeff).

 

I am also going to say it...git gud.

 

The AI are stupidly over-powered. Now we are unable to edit the SFM files to prevent them having quasi-rocket motors (seriously...WTF) I've lost interest in BFM with AI.

 

 

There is hard, and then there is outrageously unrealistic.

 

 

I can't but help compare the JF-17 to the F-16 (similar wing, and I'm a long-time "other sim" pilot). She feels good around 350 kts. Don't get below 300 kts unless you want a bad time. She recovers well if you unload. I'm fairly sure she'll hold her own against an F-16 with a competent pilot.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Tiger-II

[J20Stronk]

Its a decently maneuverable aircraft, but the akward gun placement, lack of HMD and sluggish radar-assisted sights hamper it in gun fights.

 

(Seriously the F-14 with its boomer radar has a quicker, more precise radar gun sight. I hope Deka are prioritizing tracking speed improvements for them, like the Hornet's GS a while back.)

[AeriaGloria]

Depends if it’s gun sights are any better in real life, or if it really is Mirage level in reality

[Tiger-II]

I don't really find the gun placement an issue. Just remember to get the target lower in the HUD than you otherwise might.

 

 

You need to lead more than you think you should. If it feels like an overshoot position, you're about on target.

 

 

I have had good success against F-5's with it, as well as other AI Jeffs.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Tiger-II

[AeriaGloria]

I don't really find the gun placement an issue. Just remember to get the target lower in the HUD than you otherwise might.

 

 

You need to lead more than you think you should. If it feels like an overshoot position, you're about on target.

 

 

I have had good success against F-5's with it, as well as other AI Jeffs.

 

 

It makes sustained turn fights really hard, if youre both holding 6-8G it’s basically point blank range needed to get them close enough

 

Not to mention the pendulum affect when rolling, makes off plane shooting very hard, another reason I find SSLC useful, as it has a horizon line to show if target is in plane

[Fri13]

First is there a g limiter switch?

 

G-limiters are there for good reason in modern fighters, and it is to disallow pilot to ripping their aircraft to pieces.

 

It is not there to hold back the pilot from utilizing maximum performance of the airframe, but simply to not let pilot kill themselves.

 

A more modern aircraft with computerized flight controls has the features that so many dreams, you can just start pulling as hard you want and the computer can make you fly your corner speed and AoA so you perform your fastest turn or minimum radius without requiring to do it yourself.

 

You simply command the aircraft to do what you want it to do, and it does it. It is magical thing first, like comparing a AV-8B Harrier and F-35B. Where in Harrier you are in full control and you are there to balance it and compensate for your own inputs. Still somewhat easier than with helicopters as you don't have the gyroscopic etc effects.

But in F-35 you do nothing like that, you simply point the joystick to wanted direction and it does everything. Even a person without any training can land a F-35B perfectly on the deck, because all that is required is that person knows how to look outside and how much to move sideways and forward/backward for wanted spot. The system disallows too big inputs and doesn't allow pilot to kill themselves by any means.

 

In a 4th generation fighters the G-limiter exist just to give the maximum limits for pilot if so trying to do.

So of course pilot can override and go and kill themselves if so wanted, but when that is not modeled in DCS, people does it all the time.