Results from a performance survey I posted...

[grammaton_feather]

Hypothetical question about supporting GPU hardware VR acceleration features that could dramatically boost VR performance.

 

I see so many DCS VR users going to extreme lengths to try and get base-level performance. People who want to rush to the next 3000 series Nvidia in a pointless quest to boost performance.

 

The problem isn't the lack of GPU power, it's under-utlilisation of VR specific features available on Nvidia GPUs since the 900 series.

 

Yes we know Vulkan is coming eventually but that is a very very long way off and people are struggling to get half decent FPS.

 

Supercarrier only added to that burden.

 

The only reason DCS is even playable in VR is due to motion-smoothing on VR drivers. ASW, Dynamic SS etc are the only reasons anyone is able to play it currently.

 

There's an idea floating around that ED won't support a brand specific feature... so I wondered - given how much people are spending to get even base-level VR performance... surely if ED added single pass stereo for Nvidia users then people who love DCS and use VR would make the brand switch if necessary?

 

Results of the survey here...

Edited June 9, 2020 by grammaton_feather

[A2597]

Hypothetical question about supporting GPU hardware VR acceleration features that could dramatically boost VR performance.

 

I see so many DCS VR users going to extreme lengths to try and get base-level performance. People who want to rush to the next 3000 series Nvidia in a pointless quest to boost performance.

 

The problem isn't the lack of GPU power, it's under-utlilisation of VR specific features available on Nvidia GPUs since the 900 series.

 

Yes we know Vulkan is coming eventually but that is a very very long way off and people are struggling to get half decent FPS.

 

Supercarrier only added to that burden.

 

The only reason DCS is even playable in VR is due to motion-smoothing on VR drivers. ASW, Dynamic SS etc are the only reasons anyone is able to play it currently.

 

There's an idea floating around that ED won't support a brand specific feature... so I wondered - given how much people are spending to get even base-level VR performance... surely if ED added single pass stereo for Nvidia users then people who love DCS and use VR would make the brand switch if necessary?

 

Results of the survey here...

 

 

I'd be interested in dev feedback on this.

 

I mean, there's man hour investment in activating these features (which hey, I'd love it, but I'm guessing this is more than a simple "paste this line of code in for 100% more FPS!), so what type of gain would be expected and how does it impact other engine features like Vulcan, etc.

[grammaton_feather]

I'd be interested in dev feedback on this.

 

I mean, there's man hour investment in activating these features (which hey, I'd love it, but I'm guessing this is more than a simple "paste this line of code in for 100% more FPS!), so what type of gain would be expected and how does it impact other engine features like Vulcan, etc.

 

You're right... it does involve some work but nowhere near the level of coding required to change from DX11 to Vulkan. And the good thing is that the VR specific acceleration features on Nvidia GPUs are transferrable to Vulkan as well.

 

It's quite sad to see so many VR users struggling to get performance in VR on DCS currently. People are resorting to the shader mod which of course is broken every time there's a new update.

 

I believe the idea of not incorporating VRworks acceleration because ED don't want to favour a particular GPU is redundant now. DCS has an increasing level of visual and simulation detail. It's really struggling when it comes to VR performance. As mentioned... none of us would be playing it in VR at all if it wasn't for VR driver-level motion-smoothing. Motion-smoothing doesn't work very well when it comes to a fast moving flightsim.

[OG84]

@grammaton

There are a lot of nice VR features in the nvidia sdk :)

 

But regarding single pass, i guess they are already working on a vendor agnostic implementation (https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=269320&page=2). At least sounds like it.

 

Also the predominance of the green team could possibly change with upcoming rdna2 from AMD.

[Worrazen]

Say your thanks to Facebook, as they acquired Oculus they made it only about social and low level stuff, they don't care about hardcore VR, the other two or three proved it's not that simple to make a proper VR so they took quite a bit more time to do all the research from scratch themselfs.

 

Anyhow, we have Varjo now anyway. The industry just isn't there yet, that's why I don't bother with VR at all. Early adopters are usually beta testers so there you go, I'm sorry.

 

Now all we need is a professional level segment of PC hardware :D , the upgraded DCS engine which is just a matter of time and actually for-purpose professional audio equipment (which does exist but it's all currently designed around about music and entertainment and so is the community, most audiophiles aren't gamers AFAIK and they take a minute to even figure out you're asking them about gaming audio (generated audio), these two worlds are too disconnected still it's it's such a pity, the HW audio in the mainstream PC segment is dead for years, it's dire situation and thankfully UE5 with PS5 is doing something about it that will hopefully bleed into the PC side and thus the enthusiast PC segement which will benefit DCS in some way, I'm not saying it may be big, but it's probably not small either, anyhow it's better than nothing !!!)

Edited June 9, 2020 by Worrazen

[ricktoberfest]

Results from a performance survey I posted...

 

A poll with only 170ish responses isn’t really worth anything when there’s thousands of users here. And assuming that DCS is unplayable without motion smoothing is rather wrong.

I play on an older computer with a Vega64 and turn off ASW. Even though I’m around 40 FPS I can’t stand the ghosting and quite frankly the sim seems smoother without it.

I don’t even know where your poll was posted but unless it’s on the main forums and has at least a small representation of active users then for ED to take action based on it would be wrong.

 

...waiting for Vulkan

[grammaton_feather]

@grammaton

There are a lot of nice VR features in the nvidia sdk :)

 

But regarding single pass, i guess they are already working on a vendor agnostic implementation (https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=269320&page=2). At least sounds like it.

 

Also the predominance of the green team could possibly change with upcoming rdna2 from AMD.

 

That looks promising. I tried to enable it to test it out but couldn't get it working.

[grammaton_feather]

A poll with only 170ish responses isn’t really worth anything when there’s thousands of users here. And assuming that DCS is unplayable without motion smoothing is rather wrong.

I play on an older computer with a Vega64 and turn off ASW. Even though I’m around 40 FPS I can’t stand the ghosting and quite frankly the sim seems smoother without it.

I don’t even know where your poll was posted but unless it’s on the main forums and has at least a small representation of active users then for ED to take action based on it would be wrong.

 

...waiting for Vulkan

 

DCS IS unplayable in many circumstances without motion smoothing. Examples being supercarrier with aircraft like the F18, F14 etc. Even without the supercarrier there are dramatic frame drops at airbases with other aircraft parked etc.

 

To start with ideally VR games or sims should be running at least the native headset refresh. 90 being typical for Oculus and Vive. DCS delivers half that unless you're pointing at the sky. So it really does rely on VR driver performance boosts. Even without motion-smoothing you'd still need the async to get rid of judder precisely because the FPS is far below the target 90.

[grammaton_feather]

Say your thanks to Facebook, as they acquired Oculus they made it only about social and low level stuff, they don't care about hardcore VR, the other two or three proved it's not that simple to make a proper VR so they took quite a bit more time to do all the research from scratch themselfs.

 

Anyhow, we have Varjo now anyway. The industry just isn't there yet, that's why I don't bother with VR at all. Early adopters are usually beta testers so there you go, I'm sorry.

 

Now all we need is a professional level segment of PC hardware :D , the upgraded DCS engine which is just a matter of time and actually for-purpose professional audio equipment (which does exist but it's all currently designed around about music and entertainment and so is the community, most audiophiles aren't gamers AFAIK and they take a minute to even figure out you're asking them about gaming audio (generated audio), these two worlds are too disconnected still it's it's such a pity, the HW audio in the mainstream PC segment is dead for years, it's dire situation and thankfully UE5 with PS5 is doing something about it that will hopefully bleed into the PC side and thus the enthusiast PC segement which will benefit DCS in some way, I'm not saying it may be big, but it's probably not small either, anyhow it's better than nothing !!!)

 

Yes, mobile-powered VR is the way it's currently going but there will be a new gen of much more capable VR powered by Qualcomm that hopefully will work in steamVR as well. I bother with VR because I got sick of flat imagery many years ago (as a gamer since the 80's).

 

That other flight sim that's set in WW2 europe is actually spectacular in VR. Considering it was added much later than DCS, in the first year the performance was bad. These days the performance is amazing even on a first gen ryzen (I'm on 3rd gen now).

 

To be honest everything else I run in VR performs without issue even when I was using the Ryzen 1700. I wouldn't give up VR and certaiinly not for DCS. Performance will improve down the line but I may just spend more time in that other sim until DCS catches up.

[Worrazen]

Now all we need is a professional level segment of ... for-purpose professional audio equipment (which does exist but it's all currently designed around about music and entertainment and so is the community, most audiophiles aren't gamers AFAIK and they take a minute to even figure out you're asking them about gaming audio (generated audio), these two worlds are too disconnected still it's it's such a pity ...

 

1 day later, my 6th sense in action baby: https://www.techpowerup.com/268329/bang-olufsen-and-xbox-partner-up-to-deliver-highend-audio-proposition-for-gaming

 

PRESS RELEASE

 

Bang & Olufsen and Xbox partner up to deliver highend audio proposition for gaming

The two companies join forces to establish a new high-end of audio proposition for Xbox

Struer, 8 June – The purpose of this new collaboration is to create a new audio proposition

to cater for the high-end segment within gaming by leveraging on Bang & Olufsen’s core

capabilities of sound, design and craft. This will include “Designed for Xbox”

functionalities, which will ensure seamless connectivity and an enhanced user experience.

Vice President and Head of Product Management at Bang & Olufsen, Christoffer Poulsen,

is excited about the new collaboration and the long-term commercial potential for Bang &

Olufsen.

 

Oh let it snow let it snow let it snow ... now DCS's turn!

 

However, in seriousness, as I said you can probably with the customizability and modularity and flexibility of the PC platform do this already, it's just not going to be cheap whatsoever, and less straightforward, but not saying it would become much cheaper, however due to more popularity it could, the bar would be raised in general, perhaps the PC platform just needs more infrastructural/connectivity/standard lable thing that kinda promotes this and maybe that may be just a honest promotion deal DCS could do with an audio HW manufacturer, because the problem may simply be the industry isn't really recognizing the market rather than a technical limitation. The technical limitation is certianly the creapo motherboard audio hardware, but it got quite a bit better on hardcore motherboards.

 

However seems like the experts seem to point that headphones and binaural audio is the way to go, and that 5.1-7.1 sorround speaker systems aren't where it should move forward ... but I'm unfortunately very anti-headphone user, I don't know how I would adjust to that, I don't want anything strapped to my head, it's like being underwater, it's just a weird feeling.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Worrazen

[Worrazen]

The main point I had in mind is the big thing about occlussion culling, because DCS doesn't seem to support it, this means you're rendering everything behind an object that you're looking at with your screen, perhaps even the underbelly of aircraft and the other sides of them (as each one has hundreds of draw calls) and you can't look at an airplane from all sides simultaneously so there's should be some benefit to this even in a top-down view looking at all of the aircraft on a carrier deck for example, it shouldn't suppose to render the underbellies.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Worrazen

[WinterH]

Especially with upcoming Navi 2 graphics cards from AMD, it is probably the worst time to tie down DCS to a brand specific API, at least without seeing how does new AMD cards turn out to be.

 

Moreover, it is generally a bad idea to use brand specific apis even without that consideration.

 

FWIW, I'm already an NVidia user, and regardless my opinion is as above.

[Worrazen]

Vulkan API came from Mantle API yes, but it's not brand specific. Maybe you're mixing those.

 

Occlussion Culling isn't something tied to a graphics API, or at least it's a possibility in most of them, but I guess it's probably not simple, you have to write/implement it from scratch yourself, and DCS uses an in-house engine and focuses on in-house solutions, so yeah, SoonTM.

 

It may have already been under construction prior so, it may be just around the corner, who knows.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Worrazen

[speed-of-heat]

You can definitely do occlusion culling in directx, it was even possible in dx9, but it does require you to have meshes in place for your graphics and it does place additional workload on the cpu... and I wonder because most of the processing takes place in a single thread, you just end up “robbing Peter to pay Paul”... we can’t asw/motion vector the cpu...

[grammaton_feather]

You can definitely do occlusion culling in directx, it was even possible in dx9, but it does require you to have meshes in place for your graphics and it does place additional workload on the cpu... and I wonder because most of the processing takes place in a single thread, you just end up “robbing Peter to pay Paul”... we can’t asw/motion vector the cpu...

 

Yes, the single thread reliance is a big problem!

[grammaton_feather]

Vulkan API came from Mantle API yes, but it's not brand specific. Maybe you're mixing those.

 

Occlussion Culling isn't something tied to a graphics API, or at least it's a possibility in most of them, but I guess it's probably not simple, you have to write/implement it from scratch yourself, and DCS uses an in-house engine and focuses on in-house solutions, so yeah, SoonTM.

 

It may have already been under construction prior so, it may be just around the corner, who knows.

 

stereo_mode_use_shared_parser

 

WIP... but how long?