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Serbian MiG-29 in air


Kusch

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Hmm according to AFM the Iraqis want their migs back from "former Yugoslavia".

 

http://www.airforcesmonthly.com/view_issue.asp?ID=740

 

Are those Mig's ex-IrAF? :huh:

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Hmm according to AFM the Iraqis want their migs back from "former Yugoslavia"Are those Mig's ex-IrAF? :huh:

 

it's about iraq's MIG23ML (8 pieces) , not serbian mig's (21,29)!

These are planes that never flew in serbian colours, sky or anything..., they came to service, and ended up in the museum and warehouse. there are also 4 mig21 (just laying on runway ,no engines)

 

from the http://www.airserbia.com

there is more piscures there:

http://forum.airserbia.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3951&start=15

 

clip2x.jpg

mig231.jpg

10036010433724.jpg


Edited by concrete
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That's correct, the iraki planes are MiG-23ML's which Serbia has never had. Just to clarify my post above.

"See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89.

=RvE=

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it's about iraq's MIG23ML (8 pieces) , not serbian mig's (21,29)!

These are planes that never flew in serbian colours, sky or anything..., they came to service, and ended up in the museum and warehouse. there are also 4 mig21 (just laying on runway ,no engines)

 

from the www.airserbia.com

there is more piscures there:

http://forum.airserbia.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3951&start=15

 

 

Yes, these MiG-23ML came to Yugoslavia (IIRC in '89) for an overhaul at ZMAJ (today ZTZ) near Zagreb, capital of Croatia (Ex Yugoslav republic) and MOMA institute at Batajnica near Belgrade (capital of Serbia and ex Yu). ZMAJ was probably the cheapest and stated by some Theee Best major facility that could perform such maintenance outside USSR and Iraq had great relations with Yugoslavia as lots of weapons from AKs to M-84 tanks (improved T-72) were exported to Iraq during '80s. So these Floggers were overhauled whn Desert Storm broke out and their return was postponed.

 

However Yugoslav Airforce did fly those Iraqi Floggers and SMT Fishbeds with Yugoslav markings (roundel and a fin flash) during testing and finally during their final ferry flight from Zagreb to Belgrade, week or two before 1991-1995 war in Croatia broke out.

 

There was a video of some of these Flogger testflights (recorded at ZMAJ airstrip in '90) where one can clearly see Yu markings so don't be surprised to run into some "Yugoslav" Flogger photos but these planes never operated with JNA and PVO!

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Hmm according to AFM the Iraqis want their migs back from "former Yugoslavia".

When they pay for them they will get them back.

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welll, they should if the planes still fly. Are they in condition? ;)

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I seriously doubt these Floggers can fly again...

 

ZMAJ was the only facility in former Yu that was capable of overhauling MiG-21 and MiG-23 with Moma Stanojlovic near Batajnica mainly focused on keeping domestic production aircraft (Jastreb, Galeb, Orao and Super Galeb) in airworthy condition. However, when first MiG-29s came to Yu in 1987 they were just a temporary solution for next decade ('90s) to enhance MiG-21bis squadrons or/and replace some of the aging MiG-21PFM aircraft. 16 of Fulcrums arrived in a form of a Soviet debt compensation but there was also a M2000 option and there was a strong Rafale propaganda coming from Dassault Mirage!

 

I guess M2K and probably Rafale was a safest bet cause JRV & PVO idea was to create a so called "Novi Avion", 4 gen supersonic delta winged figher plane (pretty Gripen-like in shape and functionality) of fully domestic production with an exception of SNECMA M88 engine provided by French or simply reverse engineered from M2000 with French permission, of course ;). This approach was also used during Vultur/Orao development in '70s by IAR and Soko Mostar. British Rolls Royce engines were used but the engine version provided by Brits wasn't the one initially intended and agreed. It was very underpowered version incapable of supersonic flight. Lots of airfoil and leading edge modifications to reduce the drag were necessary to get something from it.

 

Research and development of Novi Avion was done in MOMA institute. It was supposed to have digital quad control system similar to that of a F-16 of that period, full glass pit and full compatibility with both Russian and US made weapons. The only thing Yugoslavia had to import for it's defense were fighter aircraft and with introduction on NA this would be history. First flight was supposed to happen in 1992 but never occured due to the war. However, there are two Novi Avion airframes used in wind tunnels and as an airfoil demonstrator. Each proto had different wing shape as their main difference.

 

So ZMAJ wasn't given any rights and tools for Fulcrum maintenance 'cause:

 

A) Soviets liked to keep things in control, sort of an air superiority created by non-delivered spares

 

B) these were just a quick solution 'til Novi becomes operational.

 

C) flight hours were seriously deducted in late '80s and early '90s so these MiGs needed no overhauls 'til mid '90s if they maintain this rate of use

 

D) Yugoslav Airforce personnel wasn't actually happy with MiG-29, I remember a Yu pilot saying that Fulcrum only lacks some cockpit space to fit his blow dryer '70s hairstyle in and a gramophone player to crank some Boney M during flight. Much of the onboard systems were expected to be more modern than they are/were in '87.

 

 

If ZMAJ was given tools required for MiG-29 I guess beside these Fishbeds and Floggers we'd have a chance to see a Iraqi Fulcrums too...

 

Edit:

Here are some Youtube links to Yugoslav aircraft worth watching,

 

- Soko J-22 Orao:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmpylm1MKkI

- Soko g-2 Galeb:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja191Fe0oEM&feature=related

- Super Galeb G-4 flown by Flying Stars:

- Novi Avion:

- Novi Avion cockpit testing:

- Development of NA aircraft:


Edited by Vekkinho

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French jets are very good quality hardware, and maintenace friendly but the jets and their parts cost a premium. French planes lost out the the F-16 back in early 90's for my countries airforce.

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Th french will sell anything, it was not so much political for sales (their industry heavily depend on that).

 

And if my country couldnt afford them, then yours probably chose not to buy it for the same reasons despite rumours of politics.

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LOL, yes, you can live like that but its not the same thing :D

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welll, they should if the planes still fly. Are they in condition? ;)
What you said is that Iraqis "want" their MiG's back. If they want them, they can pay for the services performed and they will get them back.

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What you said is that Iraqis "want" their MiG's back. If they want them, they can pay for the services performed and they will get them back.

 

Exactly, 'cause by the time of Desert Storm these Floggers were finished, waiting for deposit before flying back to Iraq!

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