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Didn’t buy anything during Summer Sale


Tempest

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Just do as I do: no more purchases from ED until the Yak is finished.

 

Yeah, for me it works exactly like this, no more purchases until the following are finished:

 

- F-5

- F-18

- F-16

- Yak

- Harrier

- Viggen

- F-14

 

it'll be a while, lol.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...

It´s funny how everyone here forgets how we are in the middle of a pandemic that sets back all the companies out there years behind in schedule, and some even go bankrupt... Maybe tone down the harsh comments, and try to understand that ED are people with passion that want to deliver, but struggle with the same problems as just about everyone out there in the world, esp. right now in the pandemic. We are given discounts regularly and can buy new modules often much cheaper than a fair pricing would be, yet there are people still complaining here... You all know that software development is shady business and one fix can cause 10 bugs. You also all know precisely what a module in alpha- or beta-state means. It may take years to finish due to the complexity of the systems and the sheer level of detail that goes into it. There really is no counterpart to DCS, simply because of the sheer level of precision and detailing. Try to be a bit more friendly and respectful. No one forces you to buy any new modules, but there are nicer ways of presenting your views. And trust me, there have been bugs with other modules, sometimes for a long time, but patience is a virtue, and if you look at how much we are getting (upgrades to the core, fixes that are priority, new elements like new DM for WWII being up and running now), then it´s really worth waiting for it. There are sometimes more pressing issues than with a single module, like for example some people having crashes with the new Syria map. That is more important than fixing subtle bugs with Yak52. Please try to understand.

 

I could agree on some of the points mentioned here IF ED was like EA or 99% other firms out there that run a greedy and shady business model that is a cash-grabber. But you obviously cannot say that for ED at all, considering all the stuff we have been getting free, just as updates and so on. To be quite honest, these people deserve respect, regardless of the paid modules. Go and see how much money you would have to pay for a 2nd grade module in FSX or some other sims (which are old and poor compared to DCS). Show some class fellow aviators, and think twice about what you post, the wording can always be improved ;) With that I wish you all a splendid time in the air, and if you have a bug with your favourite module, then don´t tease the bug, or get acquainted with another module that you have, in the mean time ;)

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If you believed the Yak would receive any attention this year, I'm sorry. "Planned" is an appeasement word.

Its a medium effort mil contract aircraft that was permitted to be sold for additional cash. They got the cash and it's been pushed aside. Just accept that.

 

 

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fixing subtle bugs with Yak52

 

We're not complaining about "subtle bugs". We're complaining about a grossly unfinished module we've paid good money for having been left twisting in the wind. So how about you trying to understand a bit?

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The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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We're not complaining about "subtle bugs". We're complaining about a grossly unfinished module we've paid good money for having been left twisting in the wind. So how about you trying to understand a bit?

 

I understand absolutely everything, and I suggest you start reading what you actually pay for. There are two things you need to acknowledge that are apparently a distant concept for you:

 

#1 https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.c...modules/yak52/

 

Read what´s written on top of the description; "Early access (What is DCS World Early Access?". Now I suggest you click on the hyperlink for what "Early access" means! It does not state anywhere when the Yak52 will be finished, only that bugs and and an incomplete module is to be expected. You better start reading what you pay for, because this was there from the start, so coming here now and complaining that the module is incomplete or not fixed does not give me the best impression of you!

 

#2 Who said anything was ever "left twisting in the wind"?! Do you have a statement from the devs mentioning that they abandoned the module? Your time schedule is not ED´s! It´s about time you grow up and understand that due to reasons mentioned before (Corona, demonstrations in Belarussia), some plans might extend. And even though some mods might have hinted at things getting fixed sooner, well welcome to real life! Things can happen which no one has control over! It surprises me greatly that grasping this concept for you is so hard. The whole world is in a state of suffer right now, and people have worse problems than Yak52 not being finished when YOU expected it to be. Makes sense Mundo?

 

Also, I have to admit, sure, 40 quids is quite a bit, but very little for what you are getting and the type of work that has gone into it. To be quite honest, if ED wanted to rip you off, they would be making the next Ace Combat... Complaints are good as long as they are on point and relevant. The fact that the module is labeled as "Early Access" neglects all of your points and complaints. By any means, don´t buy anything more until these modules are finished, but Early Access was perfectly labeled on Yak52 and other modules, thus it´s your responsibility and fault for not reading what to expect!

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Hey, by all means do blether away haughtily all you want, but I'm still not buying anything from ED unless and until the Yak is finished first. Because no EA module should be left twisting in the wind for years with no assurances whatsoever of it ever getting actually completed.

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The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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Honestly, @zerO_crash , even if what you write may be factually true to some extend, do you really stand behind this ridiculous statement?

Sure they told us, it's early access, but then there was NO further development after release, except from some small bugfixes. It's been released in early 2018 i believe.

 

Saying that development is "planned" for next year is basically Trumpism at this point. Of course it is planned to be developed. Technically they could finish it in 2029 and call it a successful EA with lots of user feedback. It's really sad.

Sure this was a difficult year, but they also let 2018 and 2019 pass without commiting to finishing this module.

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by the way, i'm still buying modules from ED, but i'm doubling down on only buying in a state of development that i feel is absolutely worth the money at the time of purchase.

 

i'm not doing this out of protest, but simply because i'm honestly afraid certain modules will simply never get to the state where i would be completely happy witht he state they are in (looking at you, f-18 ). nobody can gurantee that the 18 will receive the same amount of work in the comming year, now that she is near 90% finished but surely also already made most of her estaminated revenue.

this is all based on trust and a case like the yak does not help with that.

 

and stop that bullsh** of "a complex simulation can never be truly finished". other modules have arguably been "finished".

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First of all, what I wrote is not "partially true to some extent", it`s completely true given the link and explanation to where reality crosses your assumed perception of the world. There is obviously a mismatch there.

 

Yes, I believe what I said, and yes, I`ve been with the developers since LOMAC when we only had the so called Flaming Cliffs. The simulation has been stale for many many years with little progress (visible for us that is), and people started growing impatient and asking for more modules. This especially picked up when Ka50 and A10C were merged and could fly together online. What we see now is ED`s wish to please the community, and how badly this can potentially come out. If you go to the Mi24 forums for example, you will see people begging the Mi24 be released in whatever state it is now. The community has been divided here for a few years, and it seems that it´s the new-kids that join DCS that want things released yesterday. Us who have flown Ka50 and those who flew A10C for years without any new module are patient enough. Whatever way ED choses then, ends up with getting hate from one of the sides, regardless of how honestly they present it. Now, ED is doing something immense, something that no other third-party is doing, the amount of modules at the same time is staggering, and their complexity: Ka50 BS3, Mi24, F-18, F-16, WWII. There is a lot of work to be done, and many complex systems and integrations, many of which are lacking from before. This is no "bullshit", I suggest you open your eyes and really look at the F-16/F-18 not merely as single planes, but as actual platforms that need to integrate into a big network with all the software, systems and sensors. You apparently have no idea about coding, especially on this scale. Yes, it is absolutely impressive. Just for reference, MS2020 only focuses on civilian air traffic and they still cannot get the physics right, THE PHYSICS, in a flight sim! Their systems coding is mediocre at best. In DCS, physics is one of the components, on top of that come the hefty systems which are just endlessly advanced. No! If it´s so easy, why is only ED doing it to this standard?!

 

ED, to please all of us apparently, released multiple modules at the same time, allowing those that want to fly F-16/F-18 yesterday a chance to fly them in whatever state they are now. And to please us who are more patient and can wait, a piece of information stating "it will be finished when it will" was attached. Buy it at your own discretion. If you are one of those who can wait, then I do not understand what you are even doing here?! No one held a gun up to your head and forced you to buy it! It´s your choice, live with it! This has nothing to do with the trust towards ED and their authority, they provided you with open and honest info, thus take it for what it is. The rest of the people, who wanted the modules yesterday, they are writing threads on forums about how they "just" need a maverick and it´s all going to be great. Next up is "just" a AGM-88. And since you did this much, "just" SLAM-ER would be great too. If they are not pleased, it´s a cryout like here with the Yak52. Sad to say, the other modules are more popular than Yak52, and thus they will be prioritized. This is normal conduct. Comprende amigo?

 

If you have ever been in a leading position in a company, this is nothing new, and it´s an infinite problem that cannot be solved utterly, because if you don´t release the modules now in incomplete state, people will complain that no progress is made. If you release the modules now AND label them as incomplete (QED: we´ll see when they get finished, no promises or deadlines), you have people like you that come and complain even about that! You cannot please everyone! Neither in a country, nor in a company. There will always be someone complaining. If they don´t finish Yak52 (when you want them to), then we have a thread of 3 pages like right now. If they don´t finish the F-16 (when others want them to), there will be a 100 page thread within 1 hr. Do you understand this? Have I brought the administrative burden to you in a concise and understandable manner? If you were the leader of this company, with limited resources (pairs of hands), what would you prioritize? (It´s a rhethorical question, I don´t care about your answer. There is only one logical solution, and it has been presented above.)

 

Also, your speculation about F-18 not receiving the care that you want it to, it´s pure speculation. Nowhere have there been made statements about the progress being crippled in that area, neither today nor tomorrow (Ka50 BS3 was announced as on hold, why would they not admit something similar for other modules if they shared the fate of BS3?). For all we care, your concerns are groundless and could prove to be false. Tell you what, wait and see, or ask them.

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@zerO_crash Its more than the Yak-52 being unfinished. Its the duration that things have been left undone, and other modules being released and pushed to a more complete status. Or vital bugs left open that impact the playability.

For some, this is big issue. We all know how a business is supposed to be ran (seems everyone here is a CEO or software coder) so we're aware of the right and wrong ways to do things.

In this case, ED has taken on "the amount of modules at the same time is staggering, and their complexity: Ka50 BS3, Mi24, F-18, F-16, WWII" at their own behest. However, they have countermanded their own words that at no time would development of one module, negatively affect another. This doesnt sit well when you've already paid for a product on good faith that it would receive the attention is was sold upon. Popularity or not. They accepted payment, so they're obligated to complete it in a timely manner. YEARS isnt timely.

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"New kids"? Such as myself? Hah :D What you don't seem to comprende is that the Yak has seen little to no progress after its release, so prioritize or not, that's just NOT acceptable. So prevaricate all you want, but I'm still not buying anything unless and until it's sorted out first.

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The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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Every hour spent working on the Yak-52 costs money. It will lower the earnings per sold Yak-52 module and that hour might also be more profitable or better used on another project. Simple as that. Not saying that it won't ever get fixed, but that is how this circus goes.

 

Product abandonment is a great strategy. You learn that in that summer business class you took, or through hard won experience?

 

Msalama above is correct the Yak got put out and dumped with long standing issues and things that broke within the first few weeks. And I say that as a ED fanboi and usual defender. The Yak has been thoroughly neglected for long enough that ''why'' is irrelevant. The ''why'' is because they've chosen to for a prolonged, and honestly unacceptable, period of time.

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Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

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Guess what makes it feel so bad to me is seeing how the Yak-52 is a comparably simple module and a reasonably completed state is not that far away, as in a lot of the fixes it needs could probably be done with comparably little investment. Might be wrong though.

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Well i wish i'd seen this thread before buying! Ah well, it does fly nicely and for me in VR its a pleasant experience up front. However, multicrew in VR, wow there is sooooo much broken. I had to despawn and jump back in to see the engine running from my friend flying it in the front. That carried forward to most changes made by the pilot. ie gear up would work fine up front but from the back seat just stayed down, both canopies stayed open etc etc. Whilst im fine with early access, this is outright broken and obviously going to get more broken as DCS rolls forward. I would've thought there was a minimum benchmark for ED on this to take peoples money, this does feel below that even as someone very forgiving of these things. Certainly makes me hesitant knowing this can happen. I felt a little stung when the hawk left, still hurts actually haha! Anyway, long short, if you VR and want to multicrew, 100% avoid, its soul-destroyingly broken there.

GTX 1080Ti, i7 8700@4.4Ghz, 16Gb DDR4.

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When reviewing any product from ED, I now warn users not to rely on ED's promises about future features (i.e. F-16 mavericks, ground radar, etc) and to only buy modules based on their current functionality.

 

I 100% agree. It's my own judgement method. And - coincidentally - I do not own early access stuff.

 

I'd gladly buy the yak-52, but I'll wait to see it out of early access, and even then I'll come here and ask how much it is finished before buying.

 

P.S. we cannot mention other sims by name and I won't do, but there's a really well made yak-52 for a civil sim (not the big shot, the other one) that worths the money...

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  • ED Team

I can only apologies for the delay in work, it has been a difficult year, and the plans we had to finish the YAK-52 this year are not achievable, it is planned to be completed as soon as other prop work has been completed.

As mentioned above I am hopeful for the new year, as soon as I have some news I will pass it on.

 

thanks

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Yet another apology, but thanks anyway BN. In the meantime though, my decision of not buying from you still stands until the Yak is finally completed. But thanks again regardless.

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The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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  • 1 month later...

The year 2020 has been one to forget - I don't know any family or business that has not been impacted in some way. 

The two Free to Play promotions and many sales that ED has provided this year are appreciated.  Trying modules that I would never have considered has been a rare WIN-WIN situation in the year that was COVID-2020.   

  • I share most of the same concerns and opinions of the YAK-52 and it's current Early Access state after two years. 
  • That said - it really is crazy fun and relaxing to fly - For a prop plane, visibility in the cockpit is fantastic too. 
  • As of today there is a 75% chance that I will buy the moderately priced YAK before this current sale is finished.

The YAK-52 is the one plane my Granddaughter was able to consistently take off and fly around in.  I can see why the Russians use if for training because it is very easy to fly formations and aerobatics in. It is extra fun when you turn on wake turbulence and fly formation!

This evening I made a copy of the MB-339 QuickStart Mission (Batumi- Air show.miz) replacing all the planes with the YAK-52.  Flying the YAK is like flying 1/2 speed with other planes LoL.  

  • My hope is that ED will be able to finish the YAK in early 2021 and I plan to be there when that "faithful" Open Beta Patch is released!

Thanks ED - do  your best in 2021.

YAK-52_Batumi AirShow.png

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