announced DCS MiG-29A

[Seaeagle]

19 hours ago, F-2 said:

The Indian navy is looking for a mig-29k replacement. In a few years went it’s off the front line maybe that will be viable.

Are they - where did you get that idea?.....they only just bought them

 

AFAIK what it is, is that they have yet another tender in the works - this time concerning 57 additional deck aircraft for their aircraft carriers. They have a new one in the works(should be just about ready) and intend to operate a third in the future, but so far only have the 45 MiG-29K/KUB for them - i.e. less than half the requirement.

 

You might think the tender is because they are dissatisfied with the MiG-29K/KUB, but its more likely a simple matter of playing potential suppliers against each other in order to get the best deal. Besides, in many countries, a state procurements must be subject to a tender - by law.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Seaeagle

[Seaeagle]

15 hours ago, jojyrocks said:

 

 

Seeing the LARGE flaps of the Mig 35 that looks oddly similar to Mig 29K...

LOL what? - well thats probably because its a MiG-29K with an AESA radar and a new name :D .

15 hours ago, jojyrocks said:

I can see the Mig 35 is also being worked on as an alternative to an upgraded Mig 35 modded to carrier ops.

See above.  Its really amusing - first they "mod" the MiG-29K/KUB into the land based MiG-29M/M2....basically by removing the refuelling probe. Then in turn they modded this into the super "MiG-35" by putting the refuelling probe back on and install a new AESA radar(and other "bling").........and now it would be a big deal to mod this back into a MiG-29K?!

 

I think you guys got lost in the designation circus there - a "carrier capable MiG-35" would be a case of installing an AESA radar on the MiG-29K.....which in turn shouldn't be a problem since the AESA radar in question - the Zhuk-AME- is based directly on the MiG-29K's current Zhuk-ME.

[Dudikoff]

38 minutes ago, Seaeagle said:

Are they - where did you get that idea?.....they only just bought them

 

AFAIK what it is, is that they have yet another tender in the works - this time concerning 57 additional deck aircraft for their aircraft carriers. They have a new one in the works(should be just about ready) and intend to operate a third in the future, but so far only have the 45 MiG-29K/KUB for them - i.e. less than half the requirement.

 

Well, they've HAD 45, they have 41 of them now and a multitude of issues, apparently.

 

https://thewire.in/security/another-crash-brings-inherent-technical-problems-with-mig-29kub-to-the-fore

 

Supposedly, they're developing a local replacement for them which should become available by early 2030s.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Dudikoff

[Seaeagle]

13 hours ago, SharkWizard said:

Completely agree even if its slightly slower, heavier and less maneuverable.

It wasn't really. Weights and performance was practically the same for the M and K - the exception being the K having a little lower G-rating due to the larger wing area(wing loading).

 

13 hours ago, SharkWizard said:

Best looking plane and also my wallpaper...

 

I think you could do better than that for a wallpaper :) - e.g. like this one:

 

 

[yufighter]

It's good here too!

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by yufighter

[Seaeagle]

11 minutes ago, Dudikoff said:

 

Well, they've HAD 45, they have 41 of them now and a multitude of issues, apparently.

 

https://thewire.in/security/another-crash-brings-inherent-technical-problems-with-mig-29kub-to-the-fore

 

Supposedly, they're developing a local replacement for them which should become available by early 2030s.

 

Then why run a tender for more foreign supplied deck fighters now? - with previous Indian tenders in mind, it could easily end up passing that date before it comes to a conclusion :) .

 

 

[Dudikoff]

It was an RFI, not a tender if I understood correctly.

 

If they get a satisfying offer and need them urgently, they could always purchase a smaller number of them directly like they did with Rafales.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Dudikoff

[jojyrocks]

1 hour ago, Seaeagle said:

LOL what? - well thats probably because its a MiG-29K with an AESA radar and a new name .

See above.  Its really amusing - first they "mod" the MiG-29K/KUB into the land based MiG-29M/M2....basically by removing the refuelling probe. Then in turn they modded this into the super "MiG-35" by putting the refuelling probe back on and install a new AESA radar(and other "bling").........and now it would be a big deal to mod this back into a MiG-29K?!

 

I think you guys got lost in the designation circus there - a "carrier capable MiG-35" would be a case of installing an AESA radar on the MiG-29K.....which in turn shouldn't be a problem since the AESA radar in question - the Zhuk-AME- is based directly on the MiG-29K's current Zhuk-ME.

 

 

No need to be condescending...

 

I'm just basing on what the Russians are saying on the Mig 29K and Mig 35. Yes....the Mig 29K, Mig29M2 and the 35 look alike...almost like a unified design  mostly as you say M2 airframe with "bling". But that is just Russia design things for ease on costs and maintenance as their demand on arms sales is decreasing and China is rearing to enter the field as well.

 

Mig 35 might become unified from all the Mig 29K and M2...pretty much, it is somewhat of an airplane fused from M2 and K. I think 29K will be re-updated and re-labelled to 35 and Air force version minus the carrier addons. 

 

The Mig 35 does have some miniscule differences, though, one being the, improved OLS system and There is also the podded electro-optical targeting system mounted under the right engine nacelle.

 

Only export version is slated for AESA. Russia themselves do not see the need to update on that for themselves coz they do not see the urgent need and are not looking to any air to air combat...so they'd save on something much more, far different design. Mig 35 maybe was meant for export and also for them to re-update their current carrier 29K to 35 standard.

 

 

Also for Indian Navy. Until their homegrown option or the Rafale and the Rhino pass the full tests on ski jump. The Mig 35 could be their next pick too. Russians might modify their production for 29K and re-label it with the updated Mig 35. So, yeah...If that ever happen they'll either be stuck with Mig 29K they already have, or they'd purchase Mig 35 in bulk, both for Navy and IAF, though I do not see this ever happening.

 

India can be unpredictable coz USA is and France is lobbying hard. Their jets do not come cheap. Russia has nothing tangibly new to provide.

 

Personally, I think India should purchase one that can be easy on logistics and maintenance. Like having one type of plane both for AF and Navy. They are already stuck with planes and weapons of different nations, rival nations.

Edited March 17, 2021 by jojyrocks

[jojyrocks]

19 minutes ago, Dudikoff said:

It was an RFI, not a tender if I understood correctly.

 

If they get a satisfying offer and need them urgently, they could always purchase a smaller number of them directly like they did with Rafales.

 

 

 

Firstly...their Mig 29K is pretty new. Also the IAF just recently got all their Mig 29 updated to SMT standards. India has always been tardy when it comes to replacing stuff. They still intend to use the Mig 21s till 2022 and beyond, maybe till 2025.

 

As for the tender, they do not seem to be in a hurry. They want ToT....which is kinda hard to bargain for and this latest tender is told to be their last foreign purchase in mass scale. Also they could be waiting till the next election which might happen around 2024.

 

I just wonder if we'll ever see an FC3 Mig 29K...I guess that is asking too much, eh?

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by jojyrocks

[TotenDead]

 

11 минут назад, jojyrocks сказал:

Only export version is slated for AESA.

Nope. However, first serial miG-35s are entering RuAF without AESA. The plan is to install planar AESA to thi MiG.

11 минут назад, jojyrocks сказал:

Russia themselves do not see the need to update on that for themselves coz they do not see the urgent need and are not looking to any air to air combat...so they'd save on something much more, far different design.

 

That's why Su-35, 57s are being built, new a2a missiles produced. Strange statement tbh

 

11 минут назад, jojyrocks сказал:

Mig 35 maybe was meant for export and also for them to re-update their current carrier 29K to 35 standard.

 

MiG-35 isn't capable of carrier operations. It's based on 29K, shares much with it, but MiG-35 is designed to be operatet solely from the ground. Updating MiG-29K to 35 standart seems to be unlikely. Too much should be installed on 29K to get close to 35. Not only radar should be changed, but laser illumination detectors and distributed IR missile warning sensors need to be somehow installed into the plane.

 

 

[Dudikoff]

17 minutes ago, jojyrocks said:

Firstly...their Mig 29K is pretty new. Also the IAF just recently got all their Mig 29 updated to SMT standards. India has always been tardy when it comes to replacing stuff. They still intend to use the Mig 21s till 2022 and beyond, maybe till 2025.

 

It doesn't matter how new it is if the stories about abysmal availability are true (like, some systems getting knocked out of function after landing on a carrier or MK engines crapping out in flight), which is not the case with their UPGs. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Dudikoff

[TotenDead]

21 минуту назад, Dudikoff сказал:

 

It doesn't matter how new it is if the stories about abysmal availability are true (like, some systems getting knocked out of function after landing on a carrier or MK engines crapping out in flight), which is not the case with their UPGs. 

 

Индусы говорят, мол, такие эти миги плохие, все сделано через зад. А потом выясняется, что они эксплуатируют технику так, будто бы только слезли с оскверненной коровы. К примеру, прошлогодний (или позапрошлогодний) случай: выруливает индийский 29К на взлет, обнаруживается, что в одном из двигателей не то шум, не то скрежет. Никто не додумался, что надо отключить двигатель - зачем? Прерывать взлет? К чему? При этом летчик, видимо, все же доложил о том, что у него в двигателе какой-то шум и гам, поскольку самолет стоял на малом газу ТРИДЦАТЬ минут вместо разрешенных двадцати, после чего... Взлет разрешили.

На разбеге хрюкающий двигатель выдавал на несколько % оборотов меньше, чем молчаливый, но кого же это интересует, не так ли? В итоге самолет взлетел, а через несколько минут внезапно произошел пожар одного из двигателей, как неожиданно то. 

В итоге плевки полетели в сторону Микояна, мол, чего это у вас тут самолеты такие нехорошие, сами загораются: мы ж сами его спалить хотели, да плюс вроде как еще не масленица. Ну а на то, что куча эксплуатационных правил в одном лишь этом вылете была нарушена - так это самолет плохой, не подсказал как его надо летать. Вот купим супер хорнеты - так все будет лучше всех летать, ну а МиГ... на МиГах - извините.

[jojyrocks]

1 hour ago, Dudikoff said:

 

It doesn't matter how new it is if the stories about abysmal availability are true (like, some systems getting knocked out of function after landing on a carrier or MK engines crapping out in flight), which is not the case with their UPGs. 

 

 One thing to be noted is India certainly has terrible track record for Russian jets. They do not seem to be good with overhauling or maintaining Russian jets, maybe bad QC or not following the correct full procedures.

 

Just today, another news popped up, and shows, another of their Mig 21 just crashed. 

 

The other thing is; OTHER Russian jet users do not have the extreme amount of random crashes like India does for Russian jets. Still, they do the blame game. For some reason, they just could not manage the funds to totally commit to USA and buy their fighter jets in this current economic phase. They still have too many Russian jets and weapons inventory. The switch would bungle up their logistics.

 

 

Mig 29K has the smokeless engines, right? and the SMT standard, UPG to IAF has the series 3 RD-33....they do not seem to be smokeless for the latter, IAF UPG.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by jojyrocks

[BBCRF]

4 hours ago, jojyrocks said:

Я просто основываюсь на том, что русские говорят о МиГ 29К и МиГ 35. Да ... МиГ 29К, Миг29М2 и 35 похожи ... почти как единый дизайн, в основном, как вы говорите, планер М2 с " шик ». Но это просто Россия, разрабатывающая вещи для облегчения затрат и обслуживания, поскольку их спрос на продажу оружия снижается, и Китай тоже готовится выйти на рынок.

 

Mig 35 может стать унифицированным со всеми Mig 29K и M2 ... в значительной степени, это что-то вроде самолета, слитого с M2 и K. Я думаю, что 29K будет повторно обновлен и переименован в 35 и версию для ВВС за вычетом аддоны оператора связи. 

 

Однако у Mig 35 есть некоторые незначительные отличия, одним из которых является улучшенная система OLS и  электронно-оптическая система наведения на гондоле, установленная под правой гондолой двигателя.

 

Для AESA запланирована только экспортная версия. Сами Россия не видит необходимости обновлять это для себя, потому что они не видят острой необходимости и не ищут воздушного боя ... поэтому они сэкономили бы на чем-то гораздо большем, совершенно другом дизайне. Mig 35, возможно, предназначался для экспорта, а также для того, чтобы они обновили свой текущий носитель 29K до стандарта 35.

не пишите чушь

[Seaeagle]

4 hours ago, Dudikoff said:

It was an RFI, not a tender if I understood correctly.

Right but an RFI(Request For Information) is the first step in a tender.

4 hours ago, Dudikoff said:

 

If they get a satisfying offer and need them urgently, they could always purchase a smaller number of them directly like they did with Rafales.

 

But was that what they did with the Rafales?. IIRC they ran the longest tender in history and chose the Rafale in the end - only to run into all sorts of disagreements with Dassault concerning the conditions for the part of the tender concerning local license production of the majority of the aircraft. So they just scrapped the tender and instead of the 126 aircraft it concerned, just bought 36 aircraft directly from Dassault.

[jojyrocks]

50 minutes ago, BBCRF said:

не пишите чушь

At least, try to be specific! And, English, please!

[BBCRF]

3 hours ago, TotenDead said:

Индусы говорят, мол, такие эти миги плохие, все сделано через зад. А потом выясняется, что они эксплуатируют технику так, будто бы только слезли с оскверненной коровы. К примеру, прошлогодний (или позапрошлогодний) случай: выруливает индийский 29К на взлет, обнаруживается, что в одном из двигателей не то шум, не то скрежет. Никто не додумался, что надо отключить двигатель - зачем? Прерывать взлет? К чему? При этом летчик, видимо, все же доложил о том, что у него в двигателе какой-то шум и гам, поскольку самолет стоял на малом газу ТРИДЦАТЬ минут вместо разрешенных двадцати, после чего... Взлет разрешили.

На разбеге хрюкающий двигатель выдавал на несколько % оборотов меньше, чем молчаливый, но кого же это интересует, не так ли? В итоге самолет взлетел, а через несколько минут внезапно произошел пожар одного из двигателей, как неожиданно то. 

В итоге плевки полетели в сторону Микояна, мол, чего это у вас тут самолеты такие нехорошие, сами загораются: мы ж сами его спалить хотели, да плюс вроде как еще не масленица. Ну а на то, что куча эксплуатационных правил в одном лишь этом вылете была нарушена - так это самолет плохой, не подсказал как его надо летать. Вот купим супер хорнеты - так все будет лучше всех летать, ну а МиГ... на МиГах - извините.

да у них и других случаев хватает

[GGTharos]

23 minutes ago, jojyrocks said:

At least, try to be specific! And, English, please!

 

Use the translator.  We post in their forum in English, so it's only fair that they post in their native language.

[Seaeagle]

4 hours ago, jojyrocks said:

No need to be condescending...

Sorry if it came across like that - not my intention.

 

4 hours ago, jojyrocks said:

 

I'm just basing on what the Russians are saying on the Mig 29K and Mig 35. Yes....the Mig 29K, Mig29M2 and the 35 look alike...almost like a unified design  mostly as you say M2 airframe with "bling". But that is just Russia design things for ease on costs and maintenance as their demand on arms sales is decreasing and China is rearing to enter the field as well.

Yes it is a unified design, which in turn was initiated by the contract with India for the MiG-29K/KUB. There was also a high degree of commonality between the old MiG-29M and -K, but with the new versions it is much higher. The MiG-35 is really just a MiG-29M with the latest in radar and optical technology. 

 

4 hours ago, jojyrocks said:

The Mig 35 does have some miniscule differences, though, one being the, improved OLS system and There is also the podded electro-optical targeting system mounted under the right engine nacelle.

Yes and apart from those and the AESA radar, there is also the missile approach warning system - I wouldn't call those differences miniscule, but the airframe is pretty much the same.

4 hours ago, jojyrocks said:

Only export version is slated for AESA. Russia themselves do not see the need to update on that for themselves coz they do not see the urgent need and are not looking to any air to air combat...so they'd save on something much more, far different design. Mig 35 maybe was meant for export and also for them to re-update their current carrier 29K to 35 standard.

That is not my understanding. Russia's intitial order for MiG-35 involved the same radar as on the MiG-29K/KUB(the Zhuk-M planar slotted array), but AFAIK they intend to purchase the AESA for them later.

 

[BBCRF]

4 minutes ago, Seaeagle said:

Между старыми МиГ-29М и -К также была высокая степень общности

Это утверждение  не много не верно. Да они использовали единый планер.Но различия были более чем

[jojyrocks]

22 minutes ago, GGTharos said:

 

Use the translator.  We post in their forum in English, so it's only fair that they post in their native language.

 

 

I did. But they aren't that reliable. And what he said was, as translated, " do not write nonsense". And that is kind of vague, plus not specific, and sounded rude. I personally do not post in Russian language forum thread sections as I do not want to end up miscommunicating.

Edited March 17, 2021 by jojyrocks

[Seaeagle]

5 hours ago, TotenDead said:

MiG-35 isn't capable of carrier operations. It's based on 29K, shares much with it, but MiG-35 is designed to be operatet solely from the ground.

Sure but..

5 hours ago, TotenDead said:

Updating MiG-29K to 35 standart seems to be unlikely. Too much should be installed on 29K to get close to 35. Not only radar should be changed..

Says who? :) - IMHO the radar would be the main item of interest. But why..

5 hours ago, TotenDead said:

 

 

, but laser illumination detectors and distributed IR missile warning sensors need to be somehow installed into the plane.

....do you think this would be insurmountable?.  I mean thats what they did with the MiG-29M to turn it into the -35 - why not the -K?. 

 

[GGTharos]

2 hours ago, jojyrocks said:

 

 

I did. But they aren't that reliable. And what he said was, as translated, " do not write nonsense". And that is kind of vague, plus not specific, and sounded rude. I personally do not post in Russian language forum thread sections as I do not want to end up miscommunicating.

 

 

Yes well, we've already crossed that bridge for you so he'll be writing in Russian

[SharkWizard]

12 hours ago, Seaeagle said:

I think you could do better than that for a wallpaper - e.g. like this one:

 

 

Absolutely nice picture of this incredibly attractive plane.

My wallpaper is a drawing/painting of a K from a similar aspect used by the chinese plastic model kit company Trumpeter on their MiG-29K plastic model kit.

[TotenDead]

11 часов назад, Seaeagle сказал:

 

Says who? - IMHO the radar would be the main item of interest. But why..

Были заявления о возможности создать на базе МиГ-35 корабельный самолет

 

https://ria.ru/20170214/1487941760.html

 

О модернизации 29К в 35 пока ничего не слышно

 

11 часов назад, Seaeagle сказал:

....do you think this would be insurmountable?.  I mean thats what they did with the MiG-29M to turn it into the -35 - why not the -K?. 

 

 

В теории все возможно, конечно, но какова переделка конструкции у 35 относительно 29К - не ясно. Судя по всему нужно не только впихивать электронику, но и, к примеру, менять законцовки крыла, поскольку у 35 там стоит обнаружитель лазерного облучения, который ВРОДЕ как не лезет в законцовки 29К. 

 

Тут можно еще вспомнить, что американцы на свои 18Е/F вместо нормальной ОЛС решили поставить позорище в подвесном топливном баке. Аналогично поступили с F-16, которому планируют выделить ИК обнаружитель ракет в подвесном контейнере. Это говорит о том, что, видимо, датчики по-нормальному все же расположить в истребителе не всегда возможно.