Jump to content

Dogfight tactics against Cat?


Rmnsvn

Recommended Posts

Hi everyone,

A learning guy here. Trying to figure out dogfighting with the hornet. Can beat f18 with decent success, can beat f16. Mirage is my favourite to fight against as he just dies against hornet (maybe I just fought against those bad with it).

But the Tomcat just gets me every single time. It’s a superior aircraft as I understand. You can’t rate fight it, you have weaker engines. How do you kill it?

Thanks for any tips in advance!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Radius fight, minimise time to first shot and take a high PK shot as soon as possible. Against a single bandit I'd take a 2nd shot even with the first missile still in flight. As Mike says you get one chance since you are pretty unlikely to be able to win any sustained fight against a Tomcat. You should, however, EASILY be able to be the first to be in a position to shoot, even without 9X. You have so much more available instantaneous rate, and a much smaller radius, that you can use it to your advantage. Make sure you enter the fight in an efficient instant rate band (350-400kts)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great flying !!!! Thx for sharing. Question, I would like to record one day, how are you doing this? recording the fight.

ALIENWARE R11 - I9 10900KF @ 5.1 GHz - M.2 NVMe 2TB - RTX3090  - XFURY 64GB -3400 MHz RAM

Monitor AW3420DW @ 120Hz - Virpil CM3 Throttle - TM TPR Rudder pedals - Virpil CM2 w/TM Hornet Stick Center - Monstertech Deck Mounts 

RealSimulator FSSB-R3 Lightning Base w/ F16SRGRH SideStick - VR user / Varjo Aero - Big Thx to mbucchia

Start Date April 2020 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

to record i use the Nvidia shadowplay, it works perfectly and dont cause any noticeable lag.

 

server was " JustDogfight.com " , the german one. fuel are set around 50% for both Aircrafts.

 

about paddleswitch … you guys are joking , right?

i'm facing a superior pilot in a superior plane, as i said in the video comments he is pushing his F14 to the limits, and F14 limit is only when wings snaps, around 20g (check my channel, it pulled safely 25g in many occasions), his plane can eat 20mm bullets like a tank, pilot cannot be killed in any way, and on top of all this he was using full flaps , sometimes even jamming them due to excessive G loads or speed, to achieve better turning at extreme AOA.

Not the case of the pilot of this video, but the majority of players also drops aim9 and dump fuel to be lighter and have a little extra performance advantage!

so… not just in DCS, but i bet in real life too, an F18 pilot fighting for real an F14 with a gun, will not just pull paddle switch (that is there just to increase the airframe life-hours, and let you pull just 9.9g at max, that is default max G on many exported F18) , but also pull the FCS pins to totally disable max G !

 

you "paddleswitch-nazi" are always making me laught, but this time i decided to take some time and explain my point of view, just to make it clear.

use your brain guys, we are in DCS, we do not pay for airframes, so everyone pulls to the limit, its a fact, accept reality as it is.

and real life is another story, in a training probably an F18 pilot will not use paddleswitch, while in a real combat is just common sense he will not care if maintenace will have to work a bit more, he just want to survive, and will do everything he can to stay alive and complete mission, and paddleswitch has been conveniently placed on the hotas for a reason.

think on that before talk.

no offense intended eh, just something to think about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote=DLEGION;

 

Thats so damn true ! No matter how realistic this sim is.... its just game, a lovely one at that.

 

I really love dogfighting the most with guns. Hard to find a 1v1 server to do so. I may try out how to create a server for that this weekend. I'm just now getting into multiplayer.

 

Thx for the advice :thumbup:

ALIENWARE R11 - I9 10900KF @ 5.1 GHz - M.2 NVMe 2TB - RTX3090  - XFURY 64GB -3400 MHz RAM

Monitor AW3420DW @ 120Hz - Virpil CM3 Throttle - TM TPR Rudder pedals - Virpil CM2 w/TM Hornet Stick Center - Monstertech Deck Mounts 

RealSimulator FSSB-R3 Lightning Base w/ F16SRGRH SideStick - VR user / Varjo Aero - Big Thx to mbucchia

Start Date April 2020 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I doubt a real pilot would pull the paddle in a real fight. Why? Because he has never done it in 1000s of hours of training, so while amped up in a fight for his life he is unlikely to even remember it is there, so reliant he will be on muscle memory and training.

 

Even if it did cross his mind, he is unlikely to try something he has never done before in a life or death fight, as he will have no experience with how the aircraft will behave and it may throw off his whole game plan. Words of wisdom: never try something new on a check ride; this would go doubly so in combat.

 

I personally think the hornet fights better without it. I beat tomcats and paddle pulling hornets all the time without ever pulling the paddle (pretty sure I’ve beat Maxsin that way a few times too). Pull that thing and you get one super good turn, bleed A TON of energy, probably black out, and have no energy left for follow on options. If that one big turn doesn’t lead to a kill, you’re a sitting duck.


Edited by Sandman1330

Ryzen 7 5800X3D / Asus Crosshair VI Hero X370 / Corsair H110i / Sapphire Nitro+ 6800XT / 32Gb G.Skill TridentZ 3200 / Samsung 980 Pro M.2 / Virpil Warbrd base + VFX and TM grips / Virpil CM3 Throttle / Saitek Pro Combat pedals / Reverb G2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Paddleswitch Nazi?" Wow.

 

 

 

Paddle switch is not used. It is not trained to. It is not a part of the calculated performance data. The jet will potentially fail in unpredictable ways. Simply put: the hornet IS a 7.5G airplane, and not more. Anybody that is playing DCS "realistically" should not be using it. If you are enjoying yourself because it is a game and these aren't real planes, then the paddle switch is yours and have fun!


Edited by G B
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I doubt a real pilot would pull the paddle in a real fight. Why? Because he has never done it in 1000s of hours of training, so while amped up in a fight for his life he is unlikely to even remember it is there, so reliant he will be on muscle memory and training.

 

Even if it did cross his mind, he is unlikely to try something he has never done before in a life or death fight, as he will have no experience with how the aircraft will behave and it may throw off his whole game plan. Words of wisdom: never try something new on a check ride; this would go doubly so in combat.

 

I personally think the hornet fights better without it. I beat tomcats and paddle pulling hornets all the time without ever pulling the paddle (pretty sure I’ve beat Maxsin that way a few times too). Pull that thing and you get one super good turn, bleed A TON of energy, probably black out, and have no energy left for follow on options. If that one big turn doesn’t lead to a kill, you’re a sitting duck.

 

Hi,

I fly almost without paddle, with 50% fuel for both planes I should be interested about what is the good tactic against the F14 (it turns faster and tighter in these conditions)

 

Best regards


Edited by Phil C6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Paddleswitch Nazi?" Wow.

 

 

 

Paddle switch is not used. It is not trained to. It is not a part of the calculated performance data. The jet will potentially fail in unpredictable ways. Simply put: the hornet IS a 7.5G airplane, and not more. Anybody that is playing DCS "realistically" should not be using it. If you are enjoying yourself because it is a game and these aren't real planes, then the paddle switch is yours and have fun!

 

Hear, hear! :thumbup:

i7 8700K @ Stock - Win10 64 - 32 RAM - RTX 3080 12gb OC - 55 inch 4k Display

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

I fly almost without paddle, with 50% fuel for both planes I should be interested about what is the good tactic against the F14 (it turns faster and tighter in these conditions)

 

Best regards

 

*this is all just based on my observations within DCS, no real world experience in either airframe here*

 

The same tactics apply. Even at 7.5G the hornet has a significant radius advantage over the Tomcat, so try and force the fight 1 circle or scissors (if the tomcat driver is using flaps (another exploit anything above 225kts), you won’t win the radius fight. Make him go fast then slow then fast again, try to force him to jam his flaps by overspeeding them or at least increase his workload in having to drop and retract them repeatedly).

 

Use the nose authority and FBW to take snapshots. Keep your nose low and use altitude to maintain airspeed, cut across the top or bottom of the circle if it goes 2 circle. A tracking guns shot will be more difficult due to the Tomcat’s rate advantage, but you have the ability to more precisely control your nose at very high AoA. Don’t get over 400kts, come out of burner and even go to idle if necessary. Over 400kts is when your G limit will cause your radius and rate to drop significantly, though the Tomcat was similarly G limited (though also more regularly flown past that limit I believe. A product of different times...)

 

Otherwise, as Pete Bonnani says, “there is no magic move.” Just practice and find the style that works for you.


Edited by Sandman1330

Ryzen 7 5800X3D / Asus Crosshair VI Hero X370 / Corsair H110i / Sapphire Nitro+ 6800XT / 32Gb G.Skill TridentZ 3200 / Samsung 980 Pro M.2 / Virpil Warbrd base + VFX and TM grips / Virpil CM3 Throttle / Saitek Pro Combat pedals / Reverb G2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

*this is all just based on my observations within DCS, no real world experience in either airframe here*

 

The same tactics apply. Even at 7.5G the hornet has a significant radius advantage over the Tomcat, so try and force the fight 1 circle or scissors (if the tomcat driver is using flaps (another exploit anything above 225kts), you won’t win the radius fight. Make him go fast then slow then fast again, try to force him to jam his flaps by overspeeding them or at least increase his workload in having to drop and retract them repeatedly).

 

Use the nose authority and FBW to take snapshots. Keep your nose low and use altitude to maintain airspeed, cut across the top or bottom of the circle if it goes 2 circle. A tracking guns shot will be more difficult due to the Tomcat’s rate advantage, but you have the ability to more precisely control your nose at very high AoA. Don’t get over 400kts, come out of burner and even go to idle if necessary. Over 400kts is when your G limit will cause your radius and rate to drop significantly, though the Tomcat was similarly G limited (though also more regularly flown past that limit I believe. A product of different times...)

 

Otherwise, as Pete Bonnani says, “there is no magic move.” Just practice and find the style that works for you.

 

Thx a lot i'll try it

 

Best regards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Against a superior pilot in a superior plane? You’re gonna lose for sure.

 

But not for the reason you think.

 

You can’t go into a fight thinking you’re the worse pilot in a worse plane. You have to believe in yourself and your airframe first!

Intel Core i7-8700K @ 5.0 GHz // Nvidia GTX 1080Ti // 32 GB DDR4 RAM // 1 TB SSD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, it was time to give it a shot. Never tried going against the Tomcat before, human or AI.

I was surprised a bit. I probably should have tried snap shots instead of trying to get that perfect tracking shot.

My shooting was far from perfect though... I blamed it on my joystick's non-linear curve.

Anyways, AI doesn't have too many tricks up the sleeve. They do the same moves over and over so... they get smoked.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...