investigating Snowplow mode behavior is inconsistent

[USAF-Falcon87]

TGP Snowplow (SP) mode behavior is inconsistent. CCRP steering line does not always point to target designated with pod. Steps to recreate.

 

 

1) Press AG.

2) Press OSB2, then OSB 19 to select CCRP.

3) On OSB 12, select TGP.

4) DMS Aft to make TGP SOI.

5) TMS Fwd to put TGP in point track.

6) Slew the pod as desired.

7) Turn if desired, then press SP to enter snowplow mode.

8) Press TMS Fwd or TMS Right to go to point or area track.

9) Move TGP aim--CCRP Aim line and aim box (sometimes) remains on original steerpoint.

 

Behavior is inconsistent. Sometimes selecting SP works correctly, and the aiming box appears on the HUD as it should. Other times it remains aiming at the selected steerpoint.

 

Track file attached.

Snowplow bug.trk

[Emmy]

Same here. Point Track off Snow Plow does not create a viable target.

 

Should it? Or will that require the ability to make a Mark Point?

[Frederf]

Yes it should. Snowplow puts down a pseudo steerpoint and makes that SPI. Any TGP refinements from that move the attack target. Outside of possibly some oddball OAP VIPVRP stuff if it's CCRP and TGP is SOI and tracking then that's the target. There's no such thing as TGP SOI and tracking and the target is somewhere else unrelated.

[MoCluck]

I have this issue too. When you designate something in Snowplow mode, the bomb fall line and aim box remain slaved to where the TGT pod was looking at the waypoint

[ramjet77]

Confusing at the moment, I’m finding the same thing. Sometimes I can get SP and a CCRP cue to coincide but other times CCRP cue remains fixed on CZ despite using SP......

[DrGonzo94]

I think I have this issue as well. Not completely sure about the new modes yet, but trying to do CCRP bombing can result in HUD marking and CCRP guide pointing to some point that is definately not the target, even though target is properly set in the TGP.

[SCPanda]

Yeah sometimes the CCRP does not aim at the TGP target you are point or area tracking. But if you CZ with tms down and then retrack the target sometimes it works. I am very confused at the moment.

[SCPanda]

I wonder if we can actually use the TGP to track a random target without entering actual coordinates (or even without a steerpoint?)

[BlackNova]

I've attached a video showing what I believe he is describing. I'm having the same problem. At times the FLIR to slew but the HUD designator does not move along with it so the bomb fall line will not move either making CCRP / Laser guided bombing impossible.

 

 

 

Sorry, When I say "click" in video im referring to TMS UP. It seems like if the FLIR pod won't slew you have to press TMS up to get it to slew and it's then that it moves in FLIR but not HUD/Bomb fall Line.

 

[CBenson89]

TGP Snowplow mode help

 

I’ve gotten SP mode figured out for the most part in terms of using it to slew around the hud targeting box so I can do CCRP attacks. Sometimes though for whatever reason it freezes and it won’t work. Not all the time maybe like 30 percent of the time. I always use the same hot jet with the same steerpoints. I don’t think I’m doing something or not doing something it just doesn’t work every time. Is it buggy because it’s in early access or are there things that will stop the hud targeting box from appear on my hud when I enter snowplow mode if I’m not facing a steerpoint? Sometimes it even seems like if I pitch the aircraft up more it will make it work. Thanks for the help!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[crispy12]

Yes it's really buggy. I wrote down the exact steps to teach myself how to designate targets using the hud in SP mode. It works about 50% of the time for me. Very frustrating

[Rhinozherous]

This is still not fixed I think... TPOD reacts weird when using SP

 

EDIT - Disregard...  I think it works normally, I was just confused by HUD indications from TPOD.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Rhinozherous

[NOWIS]

Hey guys,

 

its still buggy for me...

Hope it'll be fixed soon!

[Terzi]

I gave up using anything related to TGP. Seriously I will just wait until the F-16 is out of early access and we have nice AG radar. Until then, I will only do visual + coordinate based AG missions. Period.

 

From my previous sim experience, I could understand everything, how things work, how the sensors bound to each other, find & track anything. Right now in DCS, it is a lottery... One sensor is looking here and the other one is looking to Africa.. Frustrating

Edited July 15, 2021 by Terzi

[BIGNEWY]

Include a track replay when reporting any issue. A short track replay showing an example of the problem will help the team investigate what you are seeing. 

 

Possible it is related to some stow behaviour issues I have reported.

[NOWIS]

So you mean a track of a session when i had problems with it?

 

Hope this is what you need:

Snowplow Buggy.trk

 

I try to get it into snowplow but it fails right from the start to show the SPI in the HUD. I tried switching into CZ. Going through STPTs that I had set.

Wont get the SPI "[+]" into the HUD. CCRP Line is in the wind. Not sure if I'm just doing it terribly wrong.

Edited July 15, 2021 by NOWIS

[Frederf]

SP is going to be very weird until the FCR GM is introduced. I wish I knew how "TGP SP" works specifically. My impression is that "SP" is a system-wide mode with shortcuts that are duplicated on FCR and TGP formats but do the same thing like CZ. The following is a selection of differences between expected and observed behavior.

 

Test #1

Action: Enter SP, TGP AREA, slew, cycle master mode MO then AG

Expect: Upon exiting SP (mode cycle) slews revert to state at SP entry.

Actual: Slews which were made in SP are still present in non-SP.

Comment: Slews made in SP are memorized and undone when exiting SP or it can be thought of as SP slews as a separate layer on top of normal slews.

 

Test #2

Action: FCR STBY range 40nm, enter SP, TGP AREA and observe range

Expect: Since FCR range 40, expect TGP to choose point 20nm distance.

Actual: Point is 10nm distant.

Comment: Due to early FCR implementation it's possible 40nm displayed range selection should be disregarded as placeholder display, evidenced that value cannot be changed in STBY as normally one is able.

 

Test #3

Action: Enter SP, observe HUD
Expect: SPI immediately moves to point ahead of airplane causing TD box to change location.

Actual: TD box remains at location before SP entry and HUD slewing and attack are still possible on original target.

Comment: Understanding is that HUD/FCR (and possibly TGP) are used to slew SP while in pre-designate state and all symbology no longer references target location before SP entry. Use of TGP up to designate SP is possibly in reference to FCR operation and not the TGP.

 

Test #4

Action: Enter SP, TGP AREA

Expect: Once TGP is SOI and tracking it immediately becomes target location.

Actual: TD box remains at original location before SP entry.

Comment: Any slewing of TGP once tracking causes TD box to update to TGP location.

[TEOMOOSE]

On 8/19/2020 at 9:21 PM, USAF-Falcon87 said:

TGP Snowplow (SP) mode behavior is inconsistent. CCRP steering line does not always point to target designated with pod. Steps to recreate.

 

 

1) Press AG.

2) Press OSB2, then OSB 19 to select CCRP.

3) On OSB 12, select TGP.

4) DMS Aft to make TGP SOI.

5) TMS Fwd to put TGP in point track.

6) Slew the pod as desired.

7) Turn if desired, then press SP to enter snowplow mode.

Press TMS Fwd or TMS Right to go to point or area track.

9) Move TGP aim--CCRP Aim line and aim box (sometimes) remains on original steerpoint.

 

Behavior is inconsistent. Sometimes selecting SP works correctly, and the aiming box appears on the HUD as it should. Other times it remains aiming at the selected steerpoint.

 

Track file attached.

Snowplow bug.trk 2.2 MB · 34 downloads

 

 

I dont see any issue with it.  The one thing is that you have to slew the tgp a bit in order to update the TD box. (< this might be a bug ??)

When in doubt always start with TMS aft short. The way i do it simple as, hit SP mode, TMS right short to INR Area mode ( in other word getting it ground stable ), than slew tgp just a bit (initially) to get the TD box. From here you can move it anywhere.

This is consistent and works every time.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Teomo

[Wiggo]

Why my Tpod is looking down left in coldstart (in the ground trying to aling / boresight the mavs) It looks totally in weid direction. Should it do that? Or is there still known problems with snowplow, or am I doing something wrong. (yes it reacts to pressing sp, but turns the tpod about 45 degrees left from the front of the plane. Has it something to do with my aligment or a I just doing something wrong?

Edited August 19, 2023 by Wiggo

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

I will close this older thread as we do have some work in progress still to come. 

thanks