Kiowa practice, use Huey or Balck Shark?

[gdotts]

Since I don't know which best to practice with for the up and coming Kiowa. Which FM best mimics Kiowa, Huey or Black Shark? My only real flight problem is defiantly just landing. I have both helicopters, seems to me Huey is tougher to land than Black Shark in that aspect with KA-50's counter rotating rotors. Kiowa has one rotating rotor and should I think follow along with the Huey in landing. Maybe Kiowa is more forgiving in landing than Huey...I don't know??? any DCS Kiowa pilots that can compare the three?

By the way... I just downloaded Syria map and the graphics are beyond any terrain to date, so much maxed out detail EVERYWHERE! Fantastic job on the map!! Thank You.

[shagrat]

Can't say about the Kiowa vs. Huey, but I can recommend to learn basics in the Huey, as both are classic tailrotor type helicopters.

The Ka-50 is different in multiple aspects. Including the coaxial rotors, but the stabilization/flight director/Autopilot system that's actually flying the thing, as well. The Huey will at least teach you how to get in a stable hover with the dependencies between all the three inputs collective, cyclic and rudder. Give you good indication of VRS and translational lift.

Don't expect the Kiowa to be totally similar. There are so many differences as number of rotor blades, two turbines, mast (higher center of mass) etc. that will make flying the Kiowa unique, but the Huey is a good training for classic helo flying, in general.

[Fakum]

I agree, fly the Huey around a bit, that will give you a good foundation to build off of

[Fly_Navy_F-14B]

I totally agree with Shagrat, the Huey is the best DCS Helo to build basic piloting skills on. I usually jump in the Huey to get my muscle memory back in shape when I haven't flown helos for a while. The Huey is like a demanding mistress, she requires your complete attention at all times. And you'll pay the price for one moment of inattention!

[gdotts]

Thank you Huey it is for my practices. Determined to make Kiowa fly for me right from the start. Hovering and keeping the bird in one spot and one spot only will be a good workout.

[swatstar98]

Huey is the best one, but dont get used to have those big movements on cyclic, kiowa is not like that.

[BaD CrC]

According to Polychop, having a good handle on the gazelle is recommended before flying the 58D because both choppers are very twitchy and the OH tactics are quite similar.

The Huey is a nice chopper to learn how to fly helicopters in general. It is very easy to handle and has no complex systems to manage.

So if you are new to helicopter, yes, you would need to start with the Huey. Now if you are already a confirmed DCS RW pilot, you should fly as much as you can on the gazelle to make the transition to the 58D more easily.

Ah yes, as for the Ka50, completely different chopper. No real use to fly her if you plan to go to the 58.

Edited August 24, 2020 by BaD CrC

[kotor633]

I find it interesting to see how the Mi-8 is completely hidden here. Besides the HUEY, it has one of the best Heli FM here in DCS. The experience I've had: If you can handle the Mi well, intercept autorotation and VRS well with this 'flying armored personnel carrier', then the HUEY runs alongside (sounds a bit arrogant, but I don't know how to put it otherwise ). KA is really different again, I agree.

[Fri13]

According to Polychop, having a good handle on the gazelle is recommended before flying the 58D because both choppers are very twitchy and the OH tactics are quite similar.

 

That is what actually scares me, as the Gazelle behaves often completely unexpected manner. Suddenly it just does something differently that you made earlier.

 

I wouldn't take Gazelle seriously for any training phase with its current flight modeling.

[BaD CrC]

Mi8 is an awesome RW module. It should be a logical transition from the Huey if you are into a lift platoon once you got the full hang on the Huey. FM is great, systems are a lot more complex to handle and it flies like a big bus so it is not much harder to fly than the Huey except that she is more prone to VRS. Mi8 is a great chopper to train on if you want to transition later to the Mi24 since it's got very similar systems and the Mi24 is after all a glorified Mi8. (don't shoot me here! :)).

But the Huey is still benefiting from his aura and reputation. Certainly the most popular module for our squad with nearly 60% of our pilots flying it. Not a lot we can do about this.

[BaD CrC]

That is what actually scares me, as the Gazelle behaves often completely unexpected manner. Suddenly it just does something differently that you made earlier.

 

I wouldn't take Gazelle seriously for any training phase with its current flight modeling.

 

The gazelle is the most fun chopper to fly in DCS. Never got surprised by her unless I am trying to fly in ways that I won't do IRL, which would also go against the basic principles of flying a sim. Unlike the other DCS RW, she requires some tweaks on the axis curves to be completely fine to fly but once you got that, it no better or worse than any other RW modules. (I hope we won't start another FM discussion here because I can't take it anymore). Casmo, an actual OH-58D pilot took the gazelle for a spin recently.

 

 

Flying the Huey or the Mi8, it's a bit like driving a pickup truck. It's stable and accessible to anyone. Flying the Gazelle is more like a fast sport car. You cannot fly her the same ways.

Edited August 24, 2020 by BaD CrC

[Fly_Navy_F-14B]

@Fri13 I also find the Gazelle to be the most difficult DCS Helo to fly. I fly the rest of my DCS modules with no curves or very little curve at all. The Gazelle is the exception to that rule. A friend of mine gave me a set of curves that he got from a real life Gazelle pilot that tames the Gazelle somewhat.

 

Collective

Deadzone = 0

Saturation X = 100

Saturation Y = 70

Curvature = 0

 

Cyclic Pitch

 

Deadzone = 0

Saturation X = 100

Saturation Y = 40

Curvature = 0

 

Cyclic Roll

 

Deadzone = 0

Saturation X = 100

Saturation Y = 25

Curvature = 0

 

Rudder

 

Deadzone = 0

Saturation X = 100

Saturation Y = 60

Curvature = 0

I hope this set of curves helps.

[Fri13]

You are understanding wrong. The gazelle is not difficult to fly but easiest to fly. It is nothing like a Huey or a Hip, even KA-50 is more demanding.

 

Need to record a video about it....

[BaD CrC]

+1 Waddell. Gazelle is still giving me some real scare sometimes while I can land any other RW anywhere without breaking a sweat (except maybe the Mi8 and its tendency to VRS so easily). Of course you need some decent controllers with no spring centering to fully enjoy it.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

I hope this set of curves helps.

 

Those settings transform the Gazelle and make it a joy to fly *if* you use a regular HOTAS setup meant for fixed wing use, which I expect most people in DCS who fly helicopters use. I tried those with my Warthog and I was impressed!

I wouldn't recommend those if you have a proper helicopter replica setup though: in that case the saturation should be set far less aggressively, imo.

I use saturation 80 for both pitch and roll (IIRC), using my Pro Flight Trainer, for more intuitive fingertip flying. But every setup is different :)

[Fly_Navy_F-14B]

@BaD CrC LOL! I feel your pain, I tend to leave bits of the tail rotor lying on the runway from time to time myself after a hard landing!

[Fly_Navy_F-14B]

@Elysian Angel I'm currently using a Warthog throttle and stick and this curve helps immensely. A true helo collective and cyclic are on my wish list. I have no doubt that the curves would have to be modified with a collective and cyclic.

[Recon21288]

I'm not even going to try and prepare for Kiowa. Why? Because nothing else in DCS is going to compare. How do I know that? I have limited insider knowledge on the Kiowa and how they're testing it. I'm not talking about giving it to streamers and youtubers to fly for publicity i'm talking behind the scenes testing. I'm hesitant to go in to more detail for fear of annoying Polychop (I'm friendly with Sven) so you'll just have to take my word for it, or wait for Polychop to go in to more detail on how they've testing the aircraft themselves.

 

I will say this though, i'm anticipating a lot of people getting the Kiowa and then complaining on the forums because its "too hard", and it's my guess is Polychop are expecting the same thing. My hope is that Polychop will go out of there way to demonstrate that actually the aircraft is as true to its real life counterpart as possible because based on what i've been told it's going to be amazing and deserves every chance!

 

100% getting the aircraft on release.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Recon21288

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

(I'm friendly with Sven)

 

So am I, and I'm impressed by what I have seen and read so far. Really looking forward to flying it! :thumbup:

[BronzeYardNo11]

You guys might want to give Dreamfoil's Bell 407 in Xplane a shot if you are trying to prepare for the Kiowa, It's basically the same aircraft.

 

That's assuming Polychop gets the flight model right...

[Beltza]

No doubt, the Gazelle. I've the UH, the Ka-50 and the Gazelle; my helicopter is the Gazelle. It's as real as the others ones and it is easy anf funny. I think is the best approach to the Kiowa.

[Rogue Trooper]

I would say the Gazelle.

Others are too heavy and too slow to react to cyclic inputs.

The MI-8 and Huey are perfect for learning choppers for the first time as they are forgiving... especially the Huey.

 

But the gazelle will prepare you for TWITCH.

[kotor633]

Today I tested the axis settings shown here for the gazelle together with the extension from sahaj for the Warthog stick. The module makes definitely more fun now.

[Fly_Navy_F-14B]

Those axis settings and a 200 mm extension made all the difference in the world for me. They make all of the helo modules a pleasure to fly. The next improvement for me will be a true helo collective.

[Fri13]

Problem with Gazelle still is that it does not react to inputs linear manner. It has own deadzones where it ignores input and then suddenly just react to them. And then it flies like on rail where cyclic is like "set the flight angle" instead "set the roll rate" and when input is inside the deadzone then the helicopter stays in that atti tude forever. One can disable trim and autopilots and Gazelle flies by itself just with the cyclic, what makes it super easy to fly as it is like a small fighter jet that flies 60-80 km/h.

 

So if Kiowa will be anywhere near that, it is just super easy to fly without any weight, gyroscopic effects and forces affecting the air.