KH-66 GROM Not locking or following beam

[Docsnuggles]

On 10/3/2020 at 7:01 PM, Frederf said:

Can you supply a track file? I've never had it fail.

try again in 2.7 OB

On 1/12/2021 at 10:27 PM, Honey said:

Just about anything you try to do in this game there is almost certainly some 69 year old bug prohibiting you from doing it.

 

its frustrating as it worked fine in 2.5.... they broke it after

[Frederf]

Just did it right now, works fine.

[Docsnuggles]

10 hours ago, Frederf said:

Just did it right now, works fine.

seems you need to play with the special settings, now i got it also to work; if "experimental" is off it seems to be broken.

[Frederf]

Turned "Experimental Features" off. Still worked.

[Docsnuggles]

On 8/19/2021 at 8:15 PM, Frederf said:

Turned "Experimental Features" off. Still worked.

just tried with this settings and the Groms simply fly in the ground. OB actual version.

[Docsnuggles]

with this settings it works in OB (just now, I hope they ruin it not again)...

[jojojung]

Anything new about the Grom and the radar beam ridding? I cant get it to work when Realistic ASP turned on. With setting to off the pipper will stabilize on ground and the grom hits the right spot, with on settings the grom only hitting the ground or sea. Thx

 

[Frederf]

It has worked for the past three years and it works right now. There's nothing to fix. Set the moveable pipper to -1.5° manually or use the -1.5° X mark on the fixed reticle as your radar boresight reference.

[rossmum]

The aim point seems to be between the legs of the bottom X mark, I think I set about -2.5 for pipper depression. But yes, this is the issue - the beam does not line up perfectly with the pipper, and people who have switched from the game mode to the realistic (well, more so) ASP mode don't realise the pipper isn't magically cowitnessed with the fixed beam anymore.

The issue that you are all having is that you're aiming at the wrong thing when you hit lock, and depending how far away you are when you do it, this is causing a massive discrepancy between where you think the radar is locked onto and where it is actually locked onto. The other remedy is to not lock and just fly the beam on, which is how the missile would be used in the real world anyway (well, assuming an RP-21, since the 22 couldn't support it).

Edited December 7, 2021 by rossmum

[Frederf]

It should be -1.5°. For some reason the angle scale was changed from degrees to tens of mils some time ago. "10" on the scal means 100 mil as can be compared to the fixed reticle ring. 1.5 is 26.666 mill or 2.6666 on the current angle scale. Checking it's sorta "25" but I'm pretty sure it's 'centiradians', definitely not degrees.

[Docsnuggles]

On 12/7/2021 at 7:10 PM, Frederf said:

It should be -1.5°. For some reason the angle scale was changed from degrees to tens of mils some time ago. "10" on the scal means 100 mil as can be compared to the fixed reticle ring. 1.5 is 26.666 mill or 2.6666 on the current angle scale. Checking it's sorta "25" but I'm pretty sure it's 'centiradians', definitely not degrees.

try the training mission for the grom and then setup a simple kill ship and try the same. here it is totally different. in the ED training mission the pipper stays on target, in the self made mission not. Either the training mission is wrong or what is told here is wrong. anyway, the training mission should reflect what needs to be done.

[Frederf]

This is from the options file in the AG_Grom.miz mission:

        ["MiG-21Bis"] =
        {
            ["Pitot"] = false,
            ["Engine"] = false,
            ["Experimental"] = false,
            ["Shake"] = 100,
            ["CPLocalList"] = "default",
            ["Reticle"] = false,
            ["Freeze"] = false,

That's causing the following special option to be overridden to the unrealistic behavior. Oddly other options like changing the cockpit livery to Chinese isn't overridden.

Notice how my "REALISTIC ASP IR A-A MISSILE RETICLE" is checked true? Well, in that particular .miz it's set to false which is causing unrealistic pipper behavior. I know it says "A-A missile" but it's applying to the Kh-66 as well. The mission setting overrides the user special options setting (Force GAMEPLAY & MISC. options for All Missions and Campaigns button has no effect here).

That option was in my opinion a mistake. In an earlier version of the software the pipper behaved in the unrealistic setting. It was later pointed out that this behavior was unrealistic so developer "fix" was to make realistic behavior an option which had to be enabled specially. We are now living with the consequences of that decision. In a similar way a multiplayer mission can force this unrealistic behavior

Pipper ain't supposed to stay on target. The ASP cannot drive the pipper laterally in the sight glass except to electromagnetically dampen or cage it to center. It is a completely fictional capability to have the pipper driven equal to missile seeker or radar LOS. Firing of Kh-66 with this RP-22 radar is complete fictional capability anyway. I would be interested to see weapons manual from MiG-21bis/RP-21/ASP-PFD which can deliver Ghrom what was sight procedure. In DCS practice I always set sight to CC fixed and MAN manual to set -1.5° pipper angle manually.

Here is that one mission with that false changed to true so the reticle acts realistically. And here is a track of flying that mission. And lastly we notice that the Kh-66 isn't acting like a beam riding missile realistically at all. Instead it's acting like a homing missile.

AG_Grom.miz_12022022_21-24.trk AG_Grom.miz

[rossmum]

It's most likely using code derived from the Kh-25L. In the same vein, RS-2US pulls lead, which it definitely shouldn't be doing.

[MysteriousHonza]

On 2/13/2022 at 3:26 AM, Frederf said:

This is from the options file in the AG_Grom.miz mission:

        ["MiG-21Bis"] =
        {
            ["Pitot"] = false,
            ["Engine"] = false,
            ["Experimental"] = false,
            ["Shake"] = 100,
            ["CPLocalList"] = "default",
            ["Reticle"] = false,
            ["Freeze"] = false,

That's causing the following special option to be overridden to the unrealistic behavior. Oddly other options like changing the cockpit livery to Chinese isn't overridden.

Notice how my "REALISTIC ASP IR A-A MISSILE RETICLE" is checked true? Well, in that particular .miz it's set to false which is causing unrealistic pipper behavior. I know it says "A-A missile" but it's applying to the Kh-66 as well. The mission setting overrides the user special options setting (Force GAMEPLAY & MISC. options for All Missions and Campaigns button has no effect here).

That option was in my opinion a mistake. In an earlier version of the software the pipper behaved in the unrealistic setting. It was later pointed out that this behavior was unrealistic so developer "fix" was to make realistic behavior an option which had to be enabled specially. We are now living with the consequences of that decision. In a similar way a multiplayer mission can force this unrealistic behavior

Pipper ain't supposed to stay on target. The ASP cannot drive the pipper laterally in the sight glass except to electromagnetically dampen or cage it to center. It is a completely fictional capability to have the pipper driven equal to missile seeker or radar LOS. Firing of Kh-66 with this RP-22 radar is complete fictional capability anyway. I would be interested to see weapons manual from MiG-21bis/RP-21/ASP-PFD which can deliver Ghrom what was sight procedure. In DCS practice I always set sight to CC fixed and MAN manual to set -1.5° pipper angle manually.

Here is that one mission with that false changed to true so the reticle acts realistically. And here is a track of flying that mission. And lastly we notice that the Kh-66 isn't acting like a beam riding missile realistically at all. Instead it's acting like a homing missile.

AG_Grom.miz_12022022_21-24.trk 2.13 MB · 24 downloads AG_Grom.miz 94.52 kB · 18 downloads

It acts like homing missile because its considered laser guided and mig21 actually uses shkval laser to guide it... 21bis needs overhaul badly.