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Razbam/ED please clarify - Is the Harrier out of EA and consequently complete?


viper2097

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It's simply nowhere near ED's own module standards. ED set the standard and has always set the bar on their sim.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=285495 shows some of the missing features but I believe this excludes so many items mentioned in the A1-AV8BB-NFM-000 as to render the aircraft superficially simulated to such a stark degree as to render this as not a true in depth simulation according to ED's work hitherto.

 

The things that really seem to grab me are statements like a weapon being unavailable or an item being classified. Many things are classified, you dont need accesss to the iamgery, chips, electronics, even a vague understanding of the functionality is enough to render a depiction. And Razbam skip this and make no attempt. ECM, TAMMAC on the EHSD, ignored, we should see similar items to the HSD, threat rings, units. Razbams state objection to doing this and GBU-54 and hotspot detector is that there is no ED weapon/API/interface/code. Did this stop Heatblur? No, the excuse is useless. We had this for the Mirage.... no radar api, waiting for ED, they said. WHilst HB went ahead and made their own? Sorry, this is not acceptable, they dont want to do it and are makign poor excuses.

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It's simply nowhere near ED's own module standards. ED set the standard and has always set the bar on their sim.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=285495 shows some of the missing features but I believe this excludes so many items mentioned in the A1-AV8BB-NFM-000 as to render the aircraft superficially simulated to such a stark degree as to render this as not a true in depth simulation according to ED's work hitherto.

 

The things that really seem to grab me are statements like a weapon being unavailable or an item being classified. Many things are classified, you dont need accesss to the iamgery, chips, electronics, even a vague understanding of the functionality is enough to render a depiction. And Razbam skip this and make no attempt. ECM, TAMMAC on the EHSD, ignored, we should see similar items to the HSD, threat rings, units. Razbams state objection to doing this and GBU-54 and hotspot detector is that there is no ED weapon/API/interface/code. Did this stop Heatblur? No, the excuse is useless. We had this for the Mirage.... no radar api, waiting for ED, they said. WHilst HB went ahead and made their own? Sorry, this is not acceptable, they dont want to do it and are makign poor excuses.

 

I know on the GBU-54 and hotspot detector they felt it was better to wait for our implementations to help them. I am not sure its a bad thing, I mean why have two teams do it, if they feel more comfortable with ED then I don't see it as a bad thing. I mean even Deka took a swing at A2G radar, and ended up going for ED's. So it just depends on the team.

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I agree with Pikey on this one. The Harrier is just not at the same level of quality that I personally expect from a DCS module (and it seems to be the case for several other customers). The HUD repeater on the MPCD is a good example of the "low quality" on top of the tons of missing features and functionalities. Same goes for the more than 2 years old bug of Sensor Select Switch Left making the EHSD appear on the right MPCD.

 

 

 

While we can expect an EA product to get better quality implementations of systems and improve much further over time, the same cannot be said for a "product sustainment" phase. IMO, a product leaving EA should be close to if not entirely feature complete (with a clear roadmap of the missing features if it happens to be so) and at the best quality it can.

 

 

I understand that bug fixes (from older bugs or from new ones) can be part of the product sustainment phase and I agree with that, but quality and polishing of the systems that are in place should be done before leaving Early Access, and a clear roadmap of the small amount of potentially missing features should be laid out, at least in my humble opinion.

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From what I have seen, I would tend to agree, and we have been discussing that as well. I felt some of it yesterday myself. I have also seen a few individuals be over the top as well. You may suggest a paying customer can act however they want, I would disagree. But I think, for the most part, most everyone here has been open and willing to work forward, I hope that continues on both sides.

 

It's really sad, that people always had to loose their temper, before someone felt obligated to answer and their concerns where addressed. There have always been quiet voices saying that something is wrong here, but they were labeled toxic or hater, remember?

 

Now that the full extent of the situation has come to light, got extra inflamed on discord instead of taking a stand here, and the ED management just didn't say anything about it, are you surprised that people got mad?

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Lets face it.

 

Razbam's AV8B is never going to be an in depth, full-fidelity simulation, they don't have the knowhow or willpower, since it's already paid for. The AV8B is in such a mess, that they have to redo it almost from scratch & develop so much new systems. How long will that take? Another +3 years?

 

I'm done with their empty promises & I'm sure ain't waiting another 3 years or even 1. My AV8B has been unused for +2 years. It doesn't matter what they have to say, that ship has sailed.

 

Meanwhile Razbam's representatives are mocking us on discord.

 

Do people really think they will do an in depth, full-fidelity F-15E or Mig-23? There's no chance in hell! How can ED even let them?

 

Refound or a free module for the same price everybody paid & uninstalling the AV8B. For those who want. They have to pay the price of intentionally neglecting their customers. ED needs to make it happen, it's the only right thing to do!

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The reality is that Razbam are reviewing constructive criticism as a personal insult which is why they seek refuge on their own discord, they are clearly feeling insecure and its the classic head in the sand tactic. I can only perceive that they feel out of their depth. This is not that we don't like the guys, nothing is personal as we don't know them. This is a business and we are the paying customer, it's actually that simple.

 

It's time for some honesty. Making comments of its a "sh*tstorm in a glass of water" from the CEO, not instructing his staff on a media blackout when this blew up until he can draft a holding statement to acknowledge things have gone wrong. Anything like "we are sorry, we are working hard and i will release a full statement on the xx of September" etc etc. However what we can ascertain is that we are dealing with someone that hasn't got that large organisational background or experience. Here lies the problem not everyone has the right skill set for running a public facing organisation, especially one that is highly specialised. But it has helped as we are now more aware of what we are dealing with. At the end of the day it's common that businesses can outgrow the founder operationally, perhaps that's the issue.

 

As a community we should probably reflect on our own expectations, this is not a large organisation and i for one I am historically guilty of judging them perhaps at a level above what they actually are, which on reflection is actually a really small setup. Even our beloved ED is a small business and we should be mindful of this. There are larger start's up's for example in the tech sector in all honestly. That aside, there is no room for ignorance or excuses for some of the content posted by Razbam employees of late.

 

It's been stated that Razbam are mad, again this is just going to annoy customers further. At least Razbam are being paid to be mad, people have been trying to talk to them, and warn them even things are going south. I personally have done so, alerting them to growing discontent. If your reading this Razbam (which i know you do) imagine from another perspective of you being mad because you are being treating rudely, ignored, long standing issues not resolved and failing to reply to any of your questions, all the time paying for this displeasure. You may think you have a horrendous pressure on you currently or whatever but come and talk to the community you may be surprised to find that despite well respected members of the community being highly critical towards you, its because we care, are passionate and want to sort this out. The serious players recognise that is something that can only be done with you. Sometimes the only way for that to happen is to be brutally honest and direct with each other.

 

As i've said previously Razbam need to take a long hard look internal and strategically assess what they are good at and what their weaknesses are individually. What is clear is that none of them have the right skill set for dealing with the outside world and customers. That isn't a matter of debate its just an observational fact. It's also not a personal criticism, its just part of being human we are all good at something's and bad at other things. The key is working out what your good at and being mindful of the things you don't do well.

 

To these ends as i have mentioned previously i don't think the EA process is a good fit for Razbam currently with the culture they have. I for one do not want Razbam to fail, but i have to state that this is very much an issues of their own making and without a dramatic cultural change they will fail, and fail ED. It's not even about what the module is anymore and what's missing, its gone beyond that. The inadequacies are all to apparent. We also need to be honest, this is not a new problem. There are instances of absolute PR disasters over a year ago and discontent (which i will not list or rehash).

 

Say they had allocated 15 mins a day just to read new posts on the forums and even replied one lines saying, thanks noted its been added to the list to check or we don't know of this thanks etc, its better than nothing and would not of lead to this complete breakdown. What we have had, pretty much in the last year is silence, no responses for the EA aspects being raised, Razbam not keeping to their end of the deal. Silence will be interpreted by the many as not caring. You need to read how people think.

 

Probably the best thing they could do, is to restructure the business. The CEO picking up on what he is good at and enjoys (excellent artist/creator), take a step back, delete his discord log in and employ a COO who has some pedigree who can organise the business/output and structure/staff. Obviously as part of this process ensuring access to their social media channels are tightly controlled going forward to ensure people operating within that area are trained in customer service. Also have a culture that encourages 360 feedback internally within Razbam. He cannot delude himself however and i would encourage him to be honest and look inwards if he want's this to work, and equally to be happy. As a tip this can only happen by being truly honest and embracing what your bad at.

 

This is not meant if your reading this Prowler which im pretty confident you will at some stage in the next day said as an insult, its food for thought and sent to assist and support. Life is to short and i'm guessing this isn't making you happy right now, or your brother Zeus, which is sad. There is a way forward, people will support you if you ask for help but think very clearly on making your next steps - being defensive and attempting to make excuses will not assist. Please take this message with the good intentions it's sent as sometimes it difficult to see the wood for the tree's when tensions are high. Personally i would recommend this;

 

1) Apologise - Sincerely, not with excuses and be specific, not just sorry. Own it. State you need our help and why, re-enage. Hell even ask for forgiveness whatever it takes. Remind us why you started this, what drives you? Be humble we all make mistakes people get that. People cannot see your passion, neither are they telepathic. Yes pitchfolks are out, but they can be lowered.

 

2) Move the module back into EA to reduce the immediate pressure on you so that customer's cannot argue that this is now a release build and all that entails (I wont go into detail here as will not encourage discontent, happy to PM you if you request it but there are some dangers with your current strategy - some people have the right day job and are pretty annoyed as a point in principle). It's also what customers appear to want by reading this forum it would seem. Now is clearly not the time for the move given the discontent and non minor bugs. If it was my business and employees jobs i was trying to safeguarding and own livelihood, i would be looking for a low risk mechanism to defuse the situation. This is a zero cost, immediate,easy, high impact guaranteed win by putting it back to EA.

 

3) Buy yourself some time for a proper review (point 2 greatly helps you with this). State over the next 2 weeks we are working with ED, internally and the community to agree to what level things will be modelled. Build a final specification architecture.

 

4) Announce the plan - with schedule. Provide absolute clarity. Sometimes bad news is better than inconclusive news. If you can't do one aspect or have no intention, be it cashflow, resource, skill set then state what cannot be done (please do not use incorrect classification issues as there are people within the community that have relevant clearances and you will be caught out and made to look foolish - not everyone is 13 on their first flight sim so think on).

 

5) Consider further feedback post plan. Publish your summary finding's of consultation with the community.

 

6) Action, do not be diverted, focus on the plan - provide 2 weekly updates on what has been worked on, what hasn't. Be honest, discuss problems as you face them, do not hide them. Manage expectations.

 

7) Be active on these forums. Do not hide on your own Social media, head in the sand isn't going to work, or being mad.

 

8) If mad at any point do not post on social media!! Honestly delete your discord and do not attempt to silence constructive criticism. One post can ruin your entire business and everyone remembers them, never the good. Always remember prior to hitting send in today's world of integrated Social Media any business is never more than a few hours away from being strangled leading to an utter catastrophic collapse!

 

9) Do not release further modules or be posting new artwork on anything other than the Harrier, Mig 19 or Mirage during this Intensive Care time. It does more damage than good.

 

10) Complete internal review / resource allocation, consider senior management roles, what makes them happy, what are they not good at, how can they be supported better. Know your limitations.

 

Lastly It's is too late to change the past, what is said and done is now history. However take a reality check, 45,000 views in 4 days is not a s**tstorm in a glass of water as you called it. You can however decide on your future, if you want to change perception, there is still find a way forward and i would suggest something along these 10 points. You might just find a whole ton of pressure gone and people wanting to help you and your team again. Good luck i hope you make the right decisions for yourself and the community.


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Lets face it.

 

Refound or a free module for the same price everybody paid & uninstalling the AV8B. For those who want. They have to pay the price of intentionally neglecting their customers. ED needs to make it happen, it's the only right thing to do!

 

Hey guy, calm down... The module have some problems, but is not unplayable and is fun. Everyone chill, its not good for us throw in trash all the work of Razbam.

 

Lets wait 2 or 3 days till Nineline bring the answers everyone want.

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I'm going to chime in with thoughts of positivity. Razbam.. while I find it outclassed and due to a lack of radar/iff interrogation kind of hard to think of flying around in multiplayer, just cruising around in this thing, it's absolutely one of my favorites to do so in.

 

The feel of the aircraft in normal flight is SUPERB.. and I can't speak for how accurate it is as I haven't and never will actually fly a real Harrier.. I'd love to see all of its features working correctly and to see the bugs with its systems squashed.

 

I think the M2000C and AV8B-NA are awesome aircraft..deserving of immersive single player campaigns, and I've been hyped at the possibility of the AV8B Plus with its radar capability since your initial annoucement. I paid for the DCS World: AV8B-NA not long after launch, and I'm not stressed about it being perfect as I have plenty of other things to do..

 

I hope you guys will fix all that needs fixing, and revisit the idea of adding the Plus version to the table ASAP.. radar capability would make this thing extremely fun to fly in MP even if outclassed in air superiority.

 

just cruising around in this virtual aircraft, I love the flight model. I can't help but enjoy how it responds to control inputs and just seems to glide through the air. It's not the fastest or even the most capable, but coordinated turns and trim functions just blow my mind compared to other aircraft in the sim.. she's a joy to just fly around in. And omg the way she responds to launching a maverick from a previously asymmetric load. Can't help but smile as I'm trimming to correct.

 

Nineline and Bignewy, thanks for stepping in and trying to calm the masses... I hope you guys are able to work everything out and Razbam is able to put the effort necessary into bringing this aircraft up to snuff.

 

It may not be something I'll fly in multiplayer for the forseeable future, but that doesn't mean it's not one of my favorites. Razbam, finish this bird up and give us the Plus model so you can move on to bring us new exciting projects like the F-15E. And all these angry people, it's because they love the module too and want to experience it to its full capability. Let it motivate you to exceed their expectations. Turn those frowns upside down.


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Hey guy, calm down... The module have some problems, but is not unplayable and is fun. Everyone chill, its not good for us throw in trash all the work of Razbam.

 

 

 

Lets wait 2 or 3 days till Nineline bring the answers everyone want.

I think he is 100% right, we bought a promise and It hasn't been delivered.

If they do not care about our feedback, they surely would about money they would have to refund.

It would be a very good lesson for every developer involved in DCS.

 

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Believe it or not, these guys love doing this stuff, and want to put our stuff they can be proud of, this is not easy for them to swallow either. You guys can choose to ignore me, but giving them time to really be thoughtful about this is better than a kneejerk response. Trust me, for a while I was CEO of kneejerk responses.

 

The problems start right there when egos start do the talking instead logic.

When someone wants more than they deserve and one can't give up from own when having more than enough etc etc.

 

My feelings comes from getting surprised about this news "Harrier is feature completed and takes-off from Early Access phase", as it triggered let down feeling, as I truly expected Razbam keep up with their promise that they will complete three modules, M2000C, AV-8B and MiG-19P at the end of 2020 (or so, giving them flexibility by 6 months). As their promise was "No new modules releases before these three are out of Early Access".

 

What I was waiting for? Each ED newsletter (I don't follow anything else outside official ED newsletter & forum) made me checking primarily a news about two things:

1) Hornet radar modes

2) Harrier would receive a major update that fixes main problems

 

Time after time, I said to myself "They will release the fixes soon, as end of 2020 is closing".

 

I am still little confused that can this be real that Harrier was pushed out of Early Access without major updates? Did I miss the major news of upgrades and all?

 

And at this moment I would just want to see either one of these:

1) See the huge updates being released and with info before what gets fixed in next updates.

2) See Harrier be labeled back to Early Access until these updates are made to it.

 

Easiest and fastest is the second option. As it saves time to all by 3-6 months to get it fixed.

Happiest and best would be a sudden major update release that basically fixes 80-90% of the major problems in 1-3 updates on this year, as result of just lack of communication from Razbam as they would have been focused to work code.

 

I am happy at this moment that ED is participating more to the status quo, as ED interest is a good customer service.

As one can think, when a public relations goes bad, it is better to step out and make a good statements that what has happened, what is going on and what is the goals for X time. It needs to be very assuring and detailed to explain things, not to blame anyone or try to give obscured answers for nothing, like "We are evaluating the situation and we will weight the future decisions in the company as it has hit hard by Covid and we will inform in the future what is status of our software products and policies, thanks from understanding" as that would be just business politics.

 

I as well feel shamed as I have recommended Harrier multiple times as best CAS aircraft, with the heavy notice for it's bugs but promise from Razbam to fix them before release from EA. This is a good reminder why ED doesn't give schedules etc, what is a wise move, but I still like idea to receive reports of development and plans, even if not quarterly then twice a year. As the positivity comes from news, bad and good ones. As it means progress is being made and nothing is worse than not having any kind communication.

Why good communication officer is a must for company to maintain business and be in touch with customers.

 

In this game, time is money. And further someone delays communication and reports, worse it gets. Damage control is even more important than is a good sales pitches.

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Hey guy, calm down... The module have some problems, but is not unplayable and is fun. Everyone chill, its not good for us throw in trash all the work of Razbam.

 

Lets wait 2 or 3 days till Nineline bring the answers everyone want.

 

I have often seen the 'it's fun in multiplayer' excuse used (or versions of it) and in general my response is: 'it depends what you look for'.

 

For some, it's simply enough to have a basic start up and then takeoff fling some jdams and land. All the power to you for that, it is a sandbox afterall.

 

But for others, you just run into problem after problem:

Start the jet up; immediately you fail the JPTL test before the engines are even on, and until weeks ago, you fail the DC pump checks, etc etc

Jets started up; have to enter radio channels twice because the . Doesn't take the first time. Unable to enter MGRS waypoints, so you try to enter a latlong waypoint, but half of the systems are in decimal and half in seconds.

Start taxi; Needing to add a load of power to 'unstick' the jet, whereas irl it taxis at idle.

Takeoff; Vrest page values don't show the actual required nozzle angle, rotate with the manual specified trim set and find the aircraft nose diving even when matching RL takeoff figures.

You roll away from the runway and the horizon line starts rising and falling because of the crosswind being miscalculated by the jet. You enter a tacan to navigate from but the course line disappears after 30NM or so, making it impossible. You set your TRAK on the EHSD to fly to a point, but the TRAK is wrong because the EHSD is in TRUE not MAG.

You select the tpod and struggle to slew to a target, because the slew bug still exists. The pod will randomly recage itself meaning you have to manhandle the slew once again. You find a target and go to use the jdam but find yourself having to mash the WINC button more than once to get the jdam to accept the target.

You manage to find your way to a boat to land, again the course line missing and the horizon line moving stare into your face. You hover alongside the boat, but there is no HPI so you have to visually land like some ww2 ace.

 

I think you get my point, there are little bugs and niggles at every turn. Saying something like 'I find it fun' or 'There aren't as many problems as people say' is a little misleading.

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As a community we should probably reflect on our own expectations, this is not a large organisation and i for one I am historically guilty of judging them perhaps at a level above what they actually are, which on reflection is actually a really small setup. Even our beloved ED is a small business and we should be mindful of this. There are larger start's up's for example in the tech sector in all honestly. That aside, there is no room for ignorance or excuses for some of the content posted by Razbam employees of late.

 

 

Hawkeye I mostly agree with your thinking.

However, we have not bought a Razbam module in a vacuum. There is ED behind it.

I bought a module sold on the official DCS store, that runs on a sim that I know and love and that was a quality guarantee for me. And that's why this whole thing stings even more.

Had it been a Razbam-made sim with no endorsement, I would not have spent that money just as much as I didn't buy some obscure flight sims from unknown developers.

 

I have spent $70 based on:

 

- product descrpition (i.e. "study level simulation")

- DCS lablel and reputation

- wanting to gain early access and support the developer

 

 

Now, what did I get from this?

 

- a product that is out of EA and is not by any account a study level simulation of the Harrier

- something that runs on DCS but is on a whole different level of quality compared to the other DCS modules

- wasted time reporting bugs only to see razbam walk away with the money and stick their heads in the sand (while insulting their paying customers at the same time).

 

 

ED put their logo on this thing but did nothing to ensure it meets the quality requirements of their own platform.

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I have often seen the 'it's fun in multiplayer' excuse used (or versions of it) and in general my response is: 'it depends what you look for'.

 

For some, it's simply enough to have a basic start up and then takeoff fling some jdams and land. All the power to you for that, it is a sandbox afterall.

 

But for others, you just run into problem after problem:

Start the jet up; immediately you fail the JPTL test before the engines are even on, and until weeks ago, you fail the DC pump checks, etc etc

Jets started up; have to enter radio channels twice because the . Doesn't take the first time. Unable to enter MGRS waypoints, so you try to enter a latlong waypoint, but half of the systems are in decimal and half in seconds.

Start taxi; Needing to add a load of power to 'unstick' the jet, whereas irl it taxis at idle.

Takeoff; Vrest page values don't show the actual required nozzle angle, rotate with the manual specified trim set and find the aircraft nose diving even when matching RL takeoff figures.

You roll away from the runway and the horizon line starts rising and falling because of the crosswind being miscalculated by the jet. You enter a tacan to navigate from but the course line disappears after 30NM or so, making it impossible. You set your TRAK on the EHSD to fly to a point, but the TRAK is wrong because the EHSD is in TRUE not MAG.

You select the tpod and struggle to slew to a target, because the slew bug still exists. The pod will randomly recage itself meaning you have to manhandle the slew once again. You find a target and go to use the jdam but find yourself having to mash the WINC button more than once to get the jdam to accept the target.

You manage to find your way to a boat to land, again the course line missing and the horizon line moving stare into your face. You hover alongside the boat, but there is no HPI so you have to visually land like some ww2 ace.

 

I think you get my point, there are little bugs and niggles at every turn. Saying something like 'I find it fun' or 'There aren't as many problems as people say' is a little misleading.

 

 

Exactly my thoughts and well describing the experience.

And again, fun doens't mean accurate, or complete, or bug free.

It can be fun for you, which is great, but it still doesn't meet the product specifications that it is sold against.

 

@marcoscosta if you bought a pair of white running shoes and you received a pair of brown sandals, would you think "well, i can still use them and they are fresh" or would you go back and expect to get what you paid for?

Windows 10 - Intel i7 7700K 4.2 Ghz (no OC) - Asus Strix GTX 1080 8Gb - 16GB DDR4 (3000 MHz) - SSD 500GB + WD Black FZEX 1TB 6Gb/s

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You didn't get the point: it is out of early access. Yay! :megalol:

A lot of people still don't understand or refuse to understand it, they only like "buy to support"

I've said it multiple times: shame on ED for wasting the F-15E on such a low quality 3rd party as Razbam. These iconic aircraft (including the Harrier) should be done by someone who has a track record of being able to make them. i.e. ED themselves or Heatblur.

I suggest ED to hire this guy up to manage who and how certain modules are to be done.

 

Edit: for real, the harrier is the only v/stol module we have, it's iconic, is not tolerable that it's done badly in every aspect, including the graphic one.


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That a module is out of early access doesn't mean it is complete. Look at the UH-1. It has been out of early access for years and still lacks multicrew, which is in the works.

 

I think the Harrier as it is now is good enough to be out of early access. Sure there are bugs and some missing functionalities, but it is enjoyable, you can make your own missions, play user files campaigns and enjoy multiplayer either in AirQuake mod or more serious servers.

 

I'm also looking forward to do the full preflight check and all of that, but to be honest for me it is not all that important.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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I think the Harrier as it is now is good enough to be out of early access.

 

Really ? you can't fly it at night - and it's a night attack variant.

 

I flew the Harrier as my main aircraft for a long time, until 2.5.6 came along with the improved lighting. Side effect of the improved lighting was that every aircraft then needed the cockpit lighting and displays changed. Some modules had this done almost right away, some took a while longer.

Razbam however have done nothing - for months - to address what is a huge bug.

 

The Harrier is a naval aircraft. Except that while taxi-ing it on the Tarawa there is a better than 50/50 chance it will fall into an invisible hole and break the aircraft. So there's another huge bug.

 

The Harrier is also a ground attack aircraft. It is currently pretty poor at delivering dumb bombs with any accuracy and the gun is unreliable.

I'd call that another game breaking bug.

 

All this nitpicking about font sizes on the MFD displays is burying the fact that the Harrier is fundamentally broken as a combat aircraft. Over the last few updates it has actually gone backwards in completeness.

 

But I no longer have a dog in this race. Razbam will be getting nothing from me in the future because they have proven they do not care about providing finished modules. I'd ask for a refund, if clicking accept to the EULA hadn't taken that right away from me. Fool me once...

---------------------------------------------------------

PC specs:- Intel 386DX, 2mb memory, onboard graphics, 14" 640x480 monitor

Modules owned:- Bachem Natter, Cessna 150, Project Pluto, Sopwith Snipe

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Believe it or not, these guys love doing this stuff, and want to put our stuff they can be proud of...

 

Believe it or not, when you work on something like this and are passionate...

 

That's a bad evidence: if all you can do with all your love and passion is this, then it means you lack technical skills and/or knowledge and you do not know what and how should be done either. That's why a lot of people is claiming for ED or heatblur to do the Harrier.

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I wonder how many people have ever read an ED manual, I mean, compared to the people who fly a DCS module. In my years flying simulators, the average of those I know come to ask first how to do this or that, or to watch videos on YouTube, than to read a manual. Many here have given extreme importance to this, in a digital world in which documentation can be done in a thousand ways, and not necessarily written. :book:

 

Precisely, hardly anyone I know or have known reads a DCS manual other than a quick reference when needed. The people complaining about manuals have far too much time on their hands. Btw, I like the Harrier and their Mirage but reading the stuff people write about the Razbam, if I were them I would just close the DCS shop and develope for MSFS 2020 where they don't really bother that much in if the systems are realistic and never have. DCS is a commercial combat flight simulation game, not real life.

 

Some of you really do need to learn how to complain as it gets much better results. People don't like nasty comments and don't be surprised if people just walk away from it.

 

Mizzy

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I wonder how many people have ever read an ED manual

 

When I buy a new module I'm used to read the whole manual at least once even before starting the first training mission. That's the reason I do not buy early access stuff: there's no manual. What's the point in calling them "study level" if there's no stuff to study?

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With RAZBAM, I get the impression that they are not willing to do that to the same level that other DCS developers are. It seems like they didn't really expect the expectations for detail to be so high. I mean, it kinda makes sense since they were coming from FSX where the standards are very different and they didn't really have to work on a still developing/evolving product (like DCS World as a whole).

 

In fsx there are also pmdg modules so - if the developer wants - the standard can be as high as dcs, nevertheless there you can also develop something "less". But here we are in dcs, and we want more. Do an addon package for the incoming MAC if you are not able to meet the standards.

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When I buy a new module I'm used to read the whole manual at least once even before starting the first training mission. That's the reason I do not buy early access stuff: there's no manual. What's the point in calling them "study level" if there's no stuff to study?

 

Study-level is mostly used to describe the depth of said simulation, in this case "as close to the real thing as possible".

 

It also means that it takes a LOT of time and practice to master it. Yes, a manual will help with that, but it's only a small part of the whole equation. And it IS fully possible to learn a study-level flightsim module like the Harrier both without a manual and with the bugs it currently has.

 

Why? Because you don't die when you mess up.

Regards

Fjordmonkey

Clustermunitions is just another way of saying that you don't like someone.

 

I used to like people, then people ruined that for me.

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