Can AI do carrier start and taxi?

[SharpeXB]

It occurs to me I’ve never seen the AI cold start, taxi and do a launch from a carrier. Every SP mission and campaign features hot starts on the catapult. Is this some limitation of the AI?

[Darcaem]

Nop, AI can startup and taxi AFAIK... I mean, in my missions me and my AI wingman both start cold and dark without issues

[SharpeXB]

So all these F-18 Campaigns are designed for lazy noobs? Great... :doh:

 

I’ve never encountered hot starts in any campaign until I started flying the Hornet.

[BigBoss_329]

They can do it, even with 3 wingmen it is no issue.

 

The A-10C, Georgia campaign missions all started on the runway, so it seems to be the norm in ED missions.

[SharpeXB]

I’m surprised anyone would design hot starts into a mission when there’s an auto startup key.

I did Georgian Hammer in the A-10C so long ago I can’t remember how it’s missions started but I’ve never encountered hot starts until now.

[Stearmandriver]

I have to say, it makes me chuckle to see people cop this attitude of superiority about cold vs hot starts. Putting aside the fact that this is just a video game and it doesn't make sense to even have an opinion about how someone else plays it... think about the basic premise: supposedly, dumb noobs don't have the skills to perform a cold start, and only experienced make-believe fighter pilots can do it.

 

... Except, performing a cold start is literally the easiest thing one could do with one of these aircraft. It's nothing but flipping a series of switches in the correct order. In every jet I've ever flown, that was where training started, because any idiot could do that ;).

 

Because it's the easiest, it's also the least interesting task to perform in the game, so why would you fault people for wanting to save a few minutes by skipping to more challenging stuff? This attitude has never made sense to me in the sim world...

[SharpeXB]

Well if you want to skip it, use the key command. But taking out of missions altogether is just dumb.

[Stearmandriver]

But it's just as easy for you to use the ME to change your flight to a cold start, right? The autostart sequence still eats up time for those that would rather start hot.

 

It's obviously fine that we disagree on this, but if I'm understanding correctly, you're griping about folks that are putting time and effort into building freeware campaigns? It seems like a modicum of gratitude might not be out of line there, but lacking that, I'm not sure complaining is the way to encourage folks to make more freeware for our enjoyment.

 

Now if you're talking about payware campaigns then I'd say you have more of a point; it's reasonable to expect a few simple options if you're paying for something.

[SharpeXB]

Now if you're talking about payware campaigns then I'd say you have more of a point; it's reasonable to expect a few simple options if you're paying for something.

Yeah, I’m actually talking about a payware campaign. The Serpents Head 2

 

The autostart sequence still eats up time for those that would rather start hot.

Auto Start is saving you a few minutes of time for a mission that might take about an hour. What’s the point? Plus you can use time acceleration and start in a minute. So why would anyone design a mission with hot starts?

 

I'm not sure complaining is the way to encourage folks to make more freeware for our enjoyment.

Not just complaining here, I started thinking this was some sort of AI limitation. It’s not just a few missions. I haven’t seen any SP missions featuring cold and dark carrier startup except the training missions. That’s really odd.

Edited September 7, 2020 by SharpeXB

[SharpeXB]

Now I understand why. DCS needs to be dumbed down for VR players who can’t find their keyboard. :doh:

They can’t find those key combos for auto start or time acceleration. Starting the engines requires key combos too.

Edited September 8, 2020 by SharpeXB

[donkeyrider]

I have to say, it makes me chuckle to see people cop this attitude of superiority about cold vs hot starts. Putting aside the fact that this is just a video game and it doesn't make sense to even have an opinion about how someone else plays it... think about the basic premise: supposedly, dumb noobs don't have the skills to perform a cold start, and only experienced make-believe fighter pilots can do it.

 

... Except, performing a cold start is literally the easiest thing one could do with one of these aircraft. It's nothing but flipping a series of switches in the correct order. In every jet I've ever flown, that was where training started, because any idiot could do that ;).

 

Because it's the easiest, it's also the least interesting task to perform in the game, so why would you fault people for wanting to save a few minutes by skipping to more challenging stuff? This attitude has never made sense to me in the sim world...

 

I hear you on this. I'm a time crunched gamer; once I've done it a cold start a few times, it is somewhat monotonous and I prefer to get into the flying. If you are going to do a cold start, then you should also hit F2 and do a walkaround as well :)

 

Having said that, for most missions it seems to have cold start as default; in which case I use the automated start and use the time to prep for the mission.

[pete_auau]

why just save time and start in the air

[SharpeXB]

why just save time and start in the air

Starting in the air is for arcade games. The whole point of a sim is that you perform all phases of flight, from startup to shut down. Yes there’s a place for air start missions such as training. But campaigns mostly feature full length missions.

[MacEwan]

Now I understand why. DCS needs to be dumbed down for VR players who can’t find their keyboard. :doh:

They can’t find those key combos for auto start or time acceleration. Starting the engines requires key combos too.

 

I fly VR and cold start everytime. Not sure that this is the reason you're seeing missions with hot starts.

[Stearmandriver]

The continuing qual sims we do at work often include air-start scenarios, in the interest of time. Sometimes we start on the runway, sometimes at the gate.. all depends on the goal of the session. It's not as if one session is "realer" than another, or that it's arcade.

 

You understand there's still MASSIVE parts of a flight that you aren't performing on a desktop sim, right? This is, being honest, a game. You certainly aren't getting the real experience of planning and flying a mission.

 

I'm not belittling anyone or arguing that you shouldn't do cold starts .. I'm merely suggesting you might extend those same courtesies to others... especially when ALL OF US are just playing a game, not actually flying anything. ;)

[SharpeXB]

The continuing qual sims we do at work often include air-start scenarios, in the interest of time. Sometimes we start on the runway, sometimes at the gate.. all depends on the goal of the session. It's not as if one session is "realer" than another, or that it's arcade.

 

You understand there's still MASSIVE parts of a flight that you aren't performing on a desktop sim, right? This is, being honest, a game. You certainly aren't getting the real experience of planning and flying a mission.

 

I'm not belittling anyone or arguing that you shouldn't do cold starts .. I'm merely suggesting you might extend those same courtesies to others... especially when ALL OF US are just playing a game, not actually flying anything. ;)

This isn’t a professional simulator. It’s a game. An entertainment product. It’s entertaining to start up your aircraft. And this is a campaign, not a training scenario. I would expect a campaign to be entertaining.

 

I never knew so many people had trouble with this idea. It’s an oddity, this campaign is the only one I can recall that didn’t have cold starts (maybe there’s hope, I’ve only done one mission)

Other campaigns have done air or hot starts but they’re worked into the storyline.

 

So far every SP mission I’ve seen for the Hornet starts you hot on the catapult, I thought it must be some sort of AI limitation.

[pete_auau]

It occurs to me I’ve never seen the AI cold start, taxi and do a launch from a carrier. Every SP mission and campaign features hot starts on the catapult. Is this some limitation of the AI?

 

 

In the liberation campaign you have a choice of either a hot or cold start and in the Raven campaign you start from cold same with your wing man

[speed-of-heat]

So I guess there are two competing schools of thought in Mission / campaign design, and they can appeal to different markets: cold start gets you more immersion, and hot start removes a boring process and off the deck faster, I guess you could also do an air start...

 

As many others have said it's a personal choice, I have played both cold and hot starts, BTW, I nearly always use the autostart when I cold start. It doesn't really bother me which I use by cause it takes out a process where I have to pay attention that tbh, as a full cold start costs me entertainment time... And even though I can do it, it doesn't give me a feeling of immersion, it gives me a feeling of boredom... YMMV

 

If I had a design preference, there would be a toggle, in dcs which enables you to start cold or hot, and mission designers could build around that, rather than having to maintain two separate missions...

[SharpeXB]

Since there is an auto start option I don’t know why anyone would design missions with hot starts.

Just poor thinking I suppose.

 

I’m amazed that people don’t seem to want this. ED could save a lot of money on modules by dumbing them down then. Just make this a lower fidelity sim and press “E” to start. It’s funny that in other sims people are all uppity about asking for this ability and in DCS nobody uses it.

[speed-of-heat]

I think it's a choice, and choice should be encouraged as it enables people to play the way they want to...

 

My observation is that I am sure that many people will want hot starts as it gets them moving faster, and I'm sure some will only want cold starts, and some will likely move from one to the other...

 

I only recently went to realistic comms, why because I didn't really have the time to invest in it.. Now I have I really enjoy it, or rather do t notice it because it's just a channel change... It doesn't impead or make my game slower or less enjoyable.

 

.In a similar way I'm sure others will want the same immersion you get by cold starting, but, maybe not right away, maybe their definition of fun is different to yours. I certainly would not want to inhibit your fun, and I suspect ED does not want to either.

 

I think SH2 represents a good balance of realism and fun, it challenges the player in steps and increases the learning challenge..

 

However, I'm surprised that with your desire for full immersion you haven't talked about why you don't have a wingman in all your missions, or why US ships in the mission have a bar, or that chinooks aren't normally based on carriers, that some of the voice procedures were dumbed down...or etc... All of which are things that are not realistic, and a central part of the scenarios... Every scenario is a compromise to balance the game with fun.. BTW I really enjoyed SH2 despite those details which were immersion breaking for me...the fact that there were a lot of hotstarts, meant I had a few minutes back in my life...so I was greatlful for that time, as they were up to 60mins long each.

 

That said I am really looking forward to playing Raven One despite the fact they are all cold starts, but, I will have to budget more time for each of those missions, maybe playing them only every other day rather than everyday...

[pete_auau]

Really it doesnt take that long to start from cold start

[speed-of-heat]

that's a matter of perspective...

[pete_auau]

probably just as long doing a auto start

[Gruman]

@SharpeXB

Are you dissapointed your bought campaign doesnt include a Cold Start Mission? How about you give the campaign maker a constructive feedback and see if he thinks the same.

If not, well try to enjoy the campaign either way or dont play it at all.

 

But why are you making such a big thing out of this? Cold start, hot start, air start... what does it matter? Each player has their preference... As long as there is no Autolock and Unlimited weapons it never will be Ace Combat... :thumbup:

I really hope you are not skipping any steps in the startup procedere and you after you landed, you shutdown the airframe properly. :smilewink:

 

Also I highly doubt that your "crusade" in 4 different topics will unite the DCS Community to YOUR prefered "Cold Start Only" way. ;)

And yes, I prefer colds starts as well, but it doesnt bother me if my friends or a mission creator sets the mission up as hotstart/airstart or whatever.

 

Have a nice day.

[SharpeXB]

I think it's a choice, and choice should be encouraged as it enables people to play the way they want to...

The sim already gives you that choice with the Auto Start key.

 

@SharpeXB

How about you give the campaign maker a constructive feedback and see if he thinks the same.

I certainly will. This is the only DLC campaign I’ve seen which does runway starts. I’ve only done one mission so I don’t know if the whole campaign is like this.

Edited September 10, 2020 by SharpeXB