The quiet is deafening!

[ignition22]

On 3/28/2021 at 10:38 AM, Looney said:

Mature changes of the fm has been finished by 70%

Don't know why people read that as fm is 70% done.
As its written It says changes to the fm is 70% done. As in fm was evaluated, decided it needed some changes/refinements and those changes are 70% done.

Its going to be great to get the Kiowa but it will be delivered when pc are ready to deliver it and that's really all there is to it. Strange thing for people to get anxious about. 

[skins45]

13 hours ago, ignition22 said:

Don't know why people read that as fm is 70% done.
As its written It says changes to the fm is 70% done. As in fm was evaluated, decided it needed some changes/refinements and those changes are 70% done.

Its going to be great to get the Kiowa but it will be delivered when pc are ready to deliver it and that's really all there is to it. Strange thing for people to get anxious about. 

No stranger than everyone freaking out about 2.7 coming today.  Which is mostly just clouds.... not a weather system.... just clouds.

[R0NiN]

On 4/13/2021 at 6:11 PM, ignition22 said:

Don't know why people read that as fm is 70% done.
As its written It says changes to the fm is 70% done. As in fm was evaluated, decided it needed some changes/refinements and those changes are 70% done.

Its going to be great to get the Kiowa but it will be delivered when pc are ready to deliver it and that's really all there is to it. Strange thing for people to get anxious about. 

I think it's just anticipation. We've known about the KW since what? The end of Nov 2019... we're nearing the end of April 2021 and people are just eager to get into it. Some people just don't have the patience on a comparable level to others. Like the song says "The waiting is the hardest part." I'm still excited, and when it does finally come out, it will be oh so worth it. But you're totally right, being anxious about it isn't healthy.

[Rick50]

On 4/14/2021 at 8:04 AM, skins45 said:

No stranger than everyone freaking out about 2.7 coming today.  Which is mostly just clouds.... not a weather system.... just clouds.

 

Nah... 

 

The clouds are just the most obvious and most easily visual item. There's PLENTY of small changes under the hood. And while I have no proof, I think there are even good decent changes that aren't even documented yet. Its about more than white whisps in the skies, as much as we appreciate them (or curse them if using VR at this time!)

 

The thing is, there's a LOT of projects that are waiting to see if 2.7 affects their mod or module's functions, affecting possibly their radar module, the flight dynamics, how this and that interact with each other... so while the clouds are noticeable, all the dev teams want to see what changes and tweeks will be needed.

[skins45]

15 hours ago, Rick50 said:

 

Nah... 

 

The clouds are just the most obvious and most easily visual item. There's PLENTY of small changes under the hood. And while I have no proof, I think there are even good decent changes that aren't even documented yet. Its about more than white whisps in the skies, as much as we appreciate them (or curse them if using VR at this time!)

 

The thing is, there's a LOT of projects that are waiting to see if 2.7 affects their mod or module's functions, affecting possibly their radar module, the flight dynamics, how this and that interact with each other... so while the clouds are noticeable, all the dev teams want to see what changes and tweeks will be needed.

People didn't know most of the changes until the changelog came out that morning.  It was always "the clouds!" People were clamoring for in the weeks preceeding.

 

I'm not arguing the wait and see approach, and I'm curious just from a project management standpoint, what are some of the things changed for developers after 2.7.

 

My point was only that it's understandable that people are super excited (and sometimes frustrated) for this MODULE, when we see people geeking out about clouds.

[Rick50]

 

LOL, no doubt! 

[Fakum]

I think this post was more about the lack of information, or absence of,,, not so much about waiting. Its not like the developers have been announcing delays,, that would be more beneficial. We always have delays, on most modules.

[Wacko_ZA]

On 4/25/2021 at 2:04 PM, Fakum said:

I think this post was more about the lack of information, or absence of,,, not so much about waiting. Its not like the developers have been announcing delays,, that would be more beneficial. We always have delays, on most modules.

I think the annoyance and frustration comes in with the Kiowa becoming a desktop screenshot simulator. 
Its all we have been getting for months now, and the devs have gone utter and complete radiosilence.
Very odd indeed for a module that looked so close to completion in streams and videos.

[ArjenHVA]

2 hours ago, wackomedic911 said:

Its all we have been getting for months now, and the devs have gone utter and complete radiosilence.
 

They have not, only here on the forums maybe. But that's a looping discussion about what the primary place of communication should be. Their Discord is quite active in which they explain why it's quiet. 

[Ramsay]

5 hours ago, wackomedic911 said:

I think the annoyance and frustration comes in with the Kiowa becoming a desktop screenshot simulator. 
Its all we have been getting for months now, and the devs have gone utter and complete radiosilence.

I'm guessing the dev's have taken notice of "the glass half empty" screenshot complaints and have stopped posting anything until it's closer to being finished/passing their Q&A.

 

5 hours ago, wackomedic911 said:

Very odd indeed for a module that looked so close to completion in streams and videos.

Likely PC weren't as near to completion as they thought and COVID, DCS, feature creep and life made things even more complicated.

 

Another dev might have given an "Early Access" release but PC always said they want it feature complete with a leading tech FM, verified by SME's who flew the real, so IMHO not odd at all.

 

Everything shown has been WIP, PC is clear they want to avoid an "Early Access" release (if at all possible), if one aspect of the FM needs adjustment - it can easily effect other parts of the FM, it's an iterative process that's "done when it's done" and takes time/SME feedback.

 

It's almost impossible to balance the "show us what you're working on" crowd vs those in the "it looks so complete" crowd - GIB Kiowa NOW requests, hence (I'm guessing) another reason for the current reduction in forum posts/updates. 

 

 

[R0NiN]

8 hours ago, ArjenHVA said:

They have not, only here on the forums maybe. But that's a looping discussion about what the primary place of communication should be. Their Discord is quite active in which they explain why it's quiet. 

As I have said in another thread here, Discord is a terrible platform to get news and updates. It's a big giant chatroom that finding a specific notice, update or information is pretty difficult. I peruse it once in a while and have a really hard time finding anything that resembles an update from the PC team. Maybe if they had a closed channel with updates it would be a little better, but as is Discord is awful for getting any kind of direct news from the Devs without spending an inordinate amount of time scrolling through weeks of random conversations.

[Fakum]

200% agree with that RONiN! Im not going to go hunting myself,,, SOOOO inefficient!

 

[Ridder]

On 5/20/2021 at 11:07 PM, R0NiN said:

As I have said in another thread here, Discord is a terrible platform to get news and updates. It's a big giant chatroom that finding a specific notice, update or information is pretty difficult. I peruse it once in a while and have a really hard time finding anything that resembles an update from the PC team. Maybe if they had a closed channel with updates it would be a little better, but as is Discord is awful for getting any kind of direct news from the Devs without spending an inordinate amount of time scrolling through weeks of random conversations.

This, Imagine every dev and content creator forced us to keep up with their own discord server. Having to search 40+ discord servers wading through poorly executed memes in the hope of finding a brief status update. I'd have to quit my job to be even somewhat informed. 

 

[Fakum]

Thats the fundamental point that some folks dont seem to understand. Thats what I dont understand,,,,, moving along.

[Steel Jaw]

Discord blows for many reasons, not the least of which is that it has become political, enforcing a SJW ideology.  But yeah, HORRIBLE way to release updates.

[Ramsay]

10 hours ago, Mower said:

But yeah, HORRIBLE way to release updates.

AFAIK PC don't use Discord to "release" updates, rather it's used to allow subscribers to "informally" discuss the Kiowa, ask questions, etc.

 

The Kiowa twitch stream a couple of months ago was an informal non-scripted event arranged with a streamer to show German viewers the WIP Kiowa, Sven was kind enough to let subscribed discord users know (a couple of hours in advance) that a stream had been scheduled, these WIP streams are temporary and get deleted after a week or so.

 

For those fearing they "missed out", nothing significant was shown/discussed that hadn't already been shown the previous Christmas (in English).

 

If you want "every" titbit of information or speculation, you'll have to follow discord, facebook, etc. and put up with the memes, jokes, trivia and off topic that go with those platforms.

 

OTOH if you only want "official" updates, this is place to come.

 

The only "official" update I'm aware of is that work is ongoing and that PC "hope" to release the DCS Kiowa before the end of the year.

 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Ramsay

[PickleMonster]

On 5/22/2021 at 4:02 PM, Mower said:

it has become political, enforcing a SJW ideology.

Whut?

[Fakum]

in other words, Discord is a horrible place to get specific updates on anything because of all the mixed garbage you would have to sift through to get the points of what information you would be looking for.

[Qiou87]

18 hours ago, Fakum said:

in other words, Discord is a horrible place to get specific updates on anything because of all the mixed garbage you would have to sift through to get the points of what information you would be looking for.

It's not though. If the Discord is maintained properly, you have a channel called #Announcements at the top, in there only the dev can post and they put their updates here. As a subscriber to the Discord server, you disable all notifications for all channels except for the one called #Announcements. That's it, done: no more memes and long discussions to sift through.

 

Not saying there shouldn't be any news posted here ; there should be. But some of the assertions here about Discord seem to stem from inexperience or refusal to learn the platform, and they are not based in fact.

[Sabre_Ewan]

2 hours ago, Qiou87 said:

It's not though. If the Discord is maintained properly, you have a channel called #Announcements at the top, in there only the dev can post and they put their updates here. As a subscriber to the Discord server, you disable all notifications for all channels except for the one called #Announcements. That's it, done: no more memes and long discussions to sift through.

 

Not saying there shouldn't be any news posted here ; there should be. But some of the assertions here about Discord seem to stem from inexperience or refusal to learn the platform, and they are not based in fact.

The problem is that most of the supposed bits of news that are posted on Discord are usually from conversations in other channels. Devs responding to questions, and that kind of thing. 

[steelgrave]

Quote

Posted May 25

  On 5/22/2021 at 5:02 PM, Mower said:

it has become political, enforcing a SJW ideology.

Whut?

 

Yeah who knows ...

[Mars Exulte]

On 5/20/2021 at 5:45 AM, wackomedic911 said:

''screenshot simulator''

 ''looked so close to completion in streams and videos''

  It's almost like there's an element to all of this beyond just the visual, and armchair developers take things out of context. The visual element is a relatively small part of all this, and ultimately the easiest. A competent 3d artist can churn out models every few weeks/months depending on the complexity. Unsurprisingly, everything else takes longer. We don't receive updates every day because it is idiotic to post ''I wrote 2000 lines of code today, and debugged 500 lines of code, here's a screenshot of a page of code you can't read''

[Rick50]

 

Mars, I agree, and that is probably what's going on.

 

But.

 

Normally I'm advocating for patience, even in this thread.

 

But.

 

The dead silence really IS deafening now. 

 

This thread is 8 months old now. 

 

Poly posted a detailed post two days after the thread started.  Back when a 2020 release was still being discussed. Then it was Christmas 2020. But now we are in Summer 2021, and have NO idea about a release date at all. At this rate, I'm guessing 2022.  There USED to be a couple of videos of coop flights, showing off the product. But now nothing, maybe a new screenshot once every few months.  It SEEMS further away than it did a year ago. Poly used to post stuff in this forum, more than screens. 

 

Keep in mind, when the Kiowa Warrior project was first announced in late 2019 (not started but announced), they suggested it was just a few short months from launch, that it was nearly ready. Keep in mind at announcment they stated they'd already been at work for two years, making the project start 2017.  But in 2021 we have NO idea of when this might show up in the ED store?!  It's confusing, disapointing. All of which would blow away instantly with a great release, and that should be the high priority. But their "marketing team", such as it is, seems to be AWOL !  

 

I no longer care about screenshots of the Kiowa, I know it looks really great, visually it surpasses my expectations. But what's going on with development? Are we weeks away from EA launch? Are we a year out? More than that?!  Is Bell unhappy and/or expecting significant changes?! What remains to be completed!?!?!  I don't understand THIS level of radio silence!

 

[R0NiN]

8 hours ago, Qiou87 said:

It's not though. If the Discord is maintained properly, you have a channel called #Announcements at the top, in there only the dev can post and they put their updates here. As a subscriber to the Discord server, you disable all notifications for all channels except for the one called #Announcements. That's it, done: no more memes and long discussions to sift through.

 

Not saying there shouldn't be any news posted here ; there should be. But some of the assertions here about Discord seem to stem from inexperience or refusal to learn the platform, and they are not based in fact.

Looking at their #Announcements channel proves that for the last 6 months it's basically been a repository for their Screenshot of the Week- which the last post there was 5/10. No update announcements, and no real "learning the platform" needed to discover that. There is no need to be salty, people are genuinely frustrated at the fact that there has been little to no word on how things are really going, outside of my point that I'll address below.

6 hours ago, Sabre_Ewan said:

The problem is that most of the supposed bits of news that are posted on Discord are usually from conversations in other channels. Devs responding to questions, and that kind of thing. 

THIS! I'm growing tired of people jumping in to excuse the lack of any real tangible news or progress with "They're pretty active on their Discord." Yes, they are, and I've seen many of them respond to questions and comments, but again, as I stated before, with a complete absence of any news or progress updates in their announcement channel, finding out how the project is going is damn near impossible to do on Discord absent being in the right channel, at the right time, or scrolling endlessly, to which I don't really have the time nor patience for. Sabre makes a good point. It would be incredibly helpful for those within the community to post to the forum what they've personally gained from those conversations if PC isn't going to. Just my thoughts. 

1 hour ago, Rick50 said:

 

Mars, I agree, and that is probably what's going on.

 

But.

 

Normally I'm advocating for patience, even in this thread.

 

But.

 

The dead silence really IS deafening now. 

 

This thread is 8 months old now. 

 

Poly posted a detailed post two days after the thread started.  Back when a 2020 release was still being discussed. Then it was Christmas 2020. But now we are in Summer 2021, and have NO idea about a release date at all. At this rate, I'm guessing 2022.  There USED to be a couple of videos of coop flights, showing off the product. But now nothing, maybe a new screenshot once every few months.  It SEEMS further away than it did a year ago. Poly used to post stuff in this forum, more than screens. 

 

Keep in mind, when the Kiowa Warrior project was first announced in late 2019 (not started but announced), they suggested it was just a few short months from launch, that it was nearly ready. Keep in mind at announcment they stated they'd already been at work for two years, making the project start 2017.  But in 2021 we have NO idea of when this might show up in the ED store?!  It's confusing, disapointing. All of which would blow away instantly with a great release, and that should be the high priority. But their "marketing team", such as it is, seems to be AWOL !  

 

I no longer care about screenshots of the Kiowa, I know it looks really great, visually it surpasses my expectations. But what's going on with development? Are we weeks away from EA launch? Are we a year out? More than that?!  Is Bell unhappy and/or expecting significant changes?! What remains to be completed!?!?!  I don't understand THIS level of radio silence!

 

I agree 100% with this. Rick, you make some very good points here. I know there was that one interview with Sven and Casmo, but that was back in Dec. Since then we haven't really seen much from streams, updates, or official word on anything. After the delay announcement, Sven has been very reluctant to even openly admit if they anticipate a 2021 release. That's understandable as they did experience a pretty catastrophic setback with one of the updates, and I'm sure they did put in some work to check how it responded to the 2.7 update. But the fact remains that ED announced the Hind and anticipates EA release soon. I can't say how long they've been developing it (because I'm not terribly interested in it and haven't really follow it), and I recognize that it's EA and not final release like PC wants with the Kiowa, but from the looks of many streams towards the end of last year, it looked as if we were months away from it being finished. Now we're almost halfway through 2021 and it's seemingly like the optimism of getting this released this year is faint. I'm in agreement with everyone who is saying "look, we know you're a small team, we know you've had some setbacks due to compatibility issues with OB updates, we know you're working hard, all we really want is something, anything." I know they don't want to put deadlines out there as that sets them up for even worse criticism when those timeframes cannot be met, but even if they came out and said "we're working hard on getting this done, we are hoping for Q_ 2021" or even "We anticipate early 2022" would be more than sufficient. Just something that can easily be distributed to more than just the select people that haunt the Discord (as I am just not a big fan of that platform and would just like a quick, 10sec update- I'm not asking PC to go out of their way to draft a major press release). Hell, they have a good relationship with Sergio Costa with HeliSimmer.com, why not just shoot him a 1min message saying where things stand to put out to the community? 

[Dangerzone]

On 5/23/2021 at 1:02 AM, Mower said:

Discord blows for many reasons, not the least of which is that it has become political, enforcing a SJW ideology.  But yeah, HORRIBLE way to release updates.

 

Can you explain? I thought Discord (unlike facebook, etc) was what the channel operators hosted - and uncensored apart from the owners of the channel? (I could be wrong - I'm not a discord guru mind you).  You've gotten a few likes to your comment so I'm guessing there's something I've missed. Is Discord censored politically in the same way that Facebook is?

Edited June 1, 2021 by Dangerzone