The quiet is deafening!

[Dangerzone]

5 hours ago, Fakum said:

We just want to know, "Whats Up"?

 

 

What we know  (no speculation - stating nothing but facts as I know them):

 

OH-58D Kiowa was scheduled for a release late 2020. Things appeared on-track until November 21 when we had an announcement that "a 2020 release of the OH-58D Kiowa Warrior module is no longer feasible"  (OH-58D Kiowa Warrior November News - DCS: OH-58 Kiowa - ED Forums (eagle.ru))

 

As far as I can see Polychop did not give a specific reason for the delay, nor did or have they given an updated estimated update of Q1, Q2, etc as though there were only polishing that would take a bit more time. (In fact they haven't even confirmed that a 2021 release is now a possibility - complete silence). Please correct me if this statement is wrong!

 

Polychop were providing weekly screenshots of updates which ceased shortly after that announcement (2 weeks after).

 

Polychop were quite active last year and activity has fallen mostly silent since the announcement that they would not be making 2020.

 

@Polychop Simulations has made only 1 single posts on this forum this whole year here (and that didn't contain any information or updates).

 

 

Conclusions

 

In fairness we don't have enough information to come to any real conclusions on the issue, however we do have some information that we can deduct from, and make some plausible speculations:

 

I was hoping that the lack of updates may have been a result of imminent release early in 2021, but that hasn't happened... and we are now in March 21 and have had no status updates since November. 

 

DCS 2.7 is "on the horizon". We have no idea whether this is a factor and Polychop are waiting for this to drop before releasing, and/or waiting for the next Stable release so they can release it to everyone at once. However - if this was the case, it shouldn't stop screenshots of the week from occurring, nor does it give a reason for the almost complete ceasing of community interaction on the forum - so while wishful thinking, I feel it's unlikely that is the reason for this cone of silence.

 

We know silence is damaging. Especially with other helicopter releases being imminent it would seem that Polychop's best interest would be to keep people focused on the Kiowa and keep the anticipation high by feeding us through some information - even if it was screenshots to keep connected to the community - yet they're not. It seems reasonable to make a plausible assumption that whatever the reason for the lack of activity and silence is greater or a higher priority than the potential damage in risking losing focus and anticipation for DCS pilots to start focusing on other models.

 

With that - it is hard to speculate to anything otherwise that something unforseen has happened internally that is causing major issues that they don't want to disclose even at the risk of damaging expectations and community engagement. ( Complete speculation but could be financial issues, loss of staff / developers, personal issues, issues with Bell or ED, or otherwise that they don't want to - or are not permitted to disclose). I really really hope that this isn't the case and that Polychop are doing well and the reason for lack of community engagement and ignoring requests for updates for months on end has another good reason - but it's hard to think what would cause an almost complete shutdown of communication since December and the damage that has the potential to cause when there is so much anticipation on the Kiowa release.

 

 

The takeaway

 

With the lack of information - any guess is fair game. Sadly for me personally - I'm beginning to move more towards the feeling that the Kiowa being a shot bird for the near future for reasons unknown and my expectation of having it being released in the near future has decreased significantly. The 'gut feeling' left I have is that I now am beginning to have a greater expectation to see the AH-64 before the Kiowa (that being near the end of this year).  I could be well off the mark with this - but with all of the above mixed with my personal experiences in past - that's the expectation that is growing in my gut.

 

 

Polychop - we're begging - if you're out there watching and things are going OK and you're just wanting to surprise us, or similar - please throw us a bone! We're not asking to disclose everything but please engage in the community in some way that we still like we're important and on your radar. Alternatively if there is something more devastating that's occurring - we really wish you all the best in resolving it. What's good for you is good for the whole community and I think the majority of us are cheering you on wanting to see you succeed. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Dangerzone

[3WA]

On 1/22/2021 at 3:27 PM, Rogue Trooper said:

Waiting is what us Chopper guys do.

and wait...and wait...and wait..........

[Vakarian]

Guys, how can you not see it. Kiowa it at Bell, so they can't take any images to use them as SOTW and they have to keep silent about it.

 

<wishful thinking only, don't take this seriously>

[Fakum]

 I dont see anything I cant actually see,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, but I know what Im looking at,,, nothing!

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Fakum

[Coota0]

May be looking for financial backing to continue development.

[R0NiN]

I'm sure I'm not alone in this opinion- but I think it would be to a great benefit for Polychop to release the KW before the AH-64 drops, otherwise, I could definitely foresee the Apache pulling all the wind out of the 58's sails and many opting to grab the latest "current" gen heli (let's face it, the UH-1H is a 40+ year old iteration, the Mi-8 and Ka-50 are, well not western aircraft, and the Gazelle is a very niche bird) and whatever drops thereafter won't have nearly as much steam to be a huge seller among the rotorwing market for DCS. I could be wrong- but among most of the more casual RW pilots not itching for a specific airframe (as I am with the KW) they'll grab what comes first (between the 64 and 58) and hold off on the next purchase for a little while. In other words, first spotted, first to shoot = first to kill (figuratively speaking). 

[Rudel_chw]

2 hours ago, R0NiN said:

... the Mi-8 and Ka-50 are, well not western aircraft ...

that’s a big part of their attractiveness, I’m kind if tired of so many US aircrafts and looking forward to purchasing the Hind 

[Lurker]

I'm not sure people really know how most third party developers operate within the Eagle Dynamics framework. This is not a full-time job for them. For most this is a hobby, in which they invest a lot of their personal money and time to maybe break even at the end. They are not beholden to anyone, unless they have taken their pre-order money. 

[Rakkis]

9 hours ago, Lurker said:

I'm not sure people really know how most third party developers operate within the Eagle Dynamics framework. This is not a full-time job for them. For most this is a hobby, in which they invest a lot of their personal money and time to maybe break even at the end. They are not beholden to anyone, unless they have taken their pre-order money. 

No, there's a social contract to a certain extent. Once you're at a point where you've announced, in tandem with ED, get a spot on the official forums, start posting regular updates, streams, screenshots etc etc, you become soft obligated to provide news those who have in turn soft pledged to buy your project. Is there a REQUIREMENT for them to tell us whats happening? No. Is there a certain understood RESPONSIBILITY between producer and purchaser to do so? Yes.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Rakkis

[tylero68]

If I had to guess... the project could be stuck with Bell (Textron) if it's being officially licensed. I know of a certain someone who did some work in university for Textron and it was an absolute joke. They were supposed to get NDAs before the start of the work in the fall. Those never came through so the contact ended up just giving the team some information. Flash forward to the end of the spring semester right before graduation and the Textron legal department finally had their stuff together and wanted to erase their whole team's PC hard drives. 

[Rogue Trooper]

I think they are delaying for 2.7 release..... like everyone else including ED.

I also think that they will do everything possible to ensure they have a perfect model, possibly even too perfect. 

I guess Polychops are quite happy not to see the viscous nasty side of the DCS community again. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Rogue Trooper

[Rudel_chw]

20 minutes ago, Rogue Trooper said:

...

I guess Polychops are quite happy not to see the viscous nasty side of the DCS community again. 

 

 

Not all the Community is like that, I couldn't care less if a Module cames earlier or later ... I have a bunch of other aircrafts to fly and learn on the meantime 

[Rogue Trooper]

There is enough of the community to make it a blow by blow 24/7, month by month, year by year nightmare for the production team.

And all PC are doing is having a go.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Rogue Trooper

[Dangerzone]

On 3/9/2021 at 8:37 PM, Lurker said:

I'm not sure people really know how most third party developers operate within the Eagle Dynamics framework. This is not a full-time job for them. For most this is a hobby, in which they invest a lot of their personal money and time to maybe break even at the end. They are not beholden to anyone, unless they have taken their pre-order money. 

 

This is the first I've ever heard of that. I had no idea. 

[Viper1970]

I hope its not the same as with RBs Strike Eagle. I love the Kiowa and its for sure a first day buy for me.

 

I really hope we will see it this year.

[nima2014]

just in case someone missed it

[GorT]

Ohh very nice! Not long posted on thier FB account. Its now my new desktop backround.

[Paladin1cd]

Nice. Wonder why it’s by a Arleigh Burk? Anyway, the silence does tell me how to expect to be treated if I give them my money and what support to expect. 

[Qiou87]

For those here that are a bit restless, PC seems to be a bit more active on FB. Maybe they don't like to use the forums here, but there seem to be some screens and an occasional post on their official page. As they describe it on their page, they are just a team of 3 guys, and between this project and their lives, also given the pandemic, maybe there simply isn't time to also feed the community here?

[Ratcatcher]

While I have some sympathy for a small company trying to both make and promote a module I would be more inclined to accept ignoring a 3rd party platform such as Hoggit, but the ED forums?

 

I'm sure I am not the only person that has interest in various modules and products that fall under the DCS World umbrella, therefore for me, it is the most convenient place to browse for info on those products, so it would seem good practice to post here to keep their fans (and prospective customers) better informed? It would appear not.

 

 

 

[Dangerzone]

On 3/15/2021 at 9:54 PM, nima2014 said:

just in case someone missed it

 

Thanks for posting that information.

 

As someone who is not on facebook, it's helpful to have information relayed to a more official platform that we can read and respond to, so kudo's and thanks!

[Rick50]

On 3/14/2021 at 8:20 PM, Dangerzone said:

 

This is the first I've ever heard of that. I had no idea. 

 

 

Yea, I've heard the same as Lurker.  We sim heads tend to think that modules are made in studios the same way the next blockbuster Call of Duty, Formula1 2028, or Disney Lego and Ster Werz games are made. I think the complexity of what is being made at simulation companies fools us a little bit, but really it's just a small loose team investing lots of hours. 

 

Now, ED itself, is I believe, a sizeable number of employees, and who work full time. And they make their own modules, do net code, server code, core graphics updates... they have a lot on their plates.  

 

The independent module makers, some might be so small, some might even not be drawing any pay at all when developing a module, they might be just investing their time and labor in the hopes of a modest return/profit and recognition, making an aircraft they love to actually use in-game. Thing is, the trend in flight simulations is for things to have more detail, more complexity offered to us, and that takes more development time. Today's free DCS mods are more complex than what we used to call a "full fidelity sim" back in 1998. And the paid modules are absolutely stunning today compared to the "uh... it kinda looks like a plane?? maybe? Is that a bird or a plane?" of the 1990's. 

 

This is why, if you can afford to buy a module at full price, then please do instead of waiting for a sale. Sure, you won't get the cheap pricing, but in this way you help support the creators that make the content we love, and those who have trouble justifying full price can wait for a sale!! 

 

[sergkar]

On 3/24/2021 at 5:10 AM, Rick50 said:

This is why, if you can afford to buy a module at full price, then please do instead of waiting for a sale.

 

Or at least one could look away from bashing devs.

[Steel Jaw]

FB is a scourge.  Best post updates here.

[Dangerzone]

On 3/24/2021 at 3:10 PM, Rick50 said:

This is why, if you can afford to buy a module at full price, then please do instead of waiting for a sale. Sure, you won't get the cheap pricing, but in this way you help support the creators that make the content we love, and those who have trouble justifying full price can wait for a sale!! 

 

 

I tend to lean towards a slightly different approach. Generally I buy modules I'm really keen on as soon as they become available (and if that's a 30% pre-sale purchase that helps the dev futher, so be it).

 

I tend to buy modules I'm not so sure about when they're on sale. I've got (quite a) few modules that hardly get flown at all - bought on sale. I figure it's not a waste as I still get some experience with them even though other modules are my main ones - and that I've still contributed to the development of DCS as a whole. At full price I wouldn't have purchased at all, but at half price to have sitting on the shelf for the odd occasion it's helping the dev's. 

 

Just wish DCS had a full logbook with all hours played in various modules (not just single player) to get an idea of how much I really use each module. (Then again, maybe I should be careful what i wish for).