The quiet is deafening!

[Rick50]

Sure, sounds good. I'm just saying that if someone has plenty of money, where full price modules are EASILY within reach, ought to help support this cottage industry as much as we can, and find other areas in our lives to save some money. I'm not talking about students, struggling new parents, people on limited incomes, people made unemployed, or people in nations where the currency exchange rate makes it difficult to afford full price modules... I'm talking about people with good incomes, people with modest expenses, people with solid careers, big inheritances, that kind of situation! 

 

Uncertainty of a module, I get that, though one could debate the use of "free trial" periods to figure that out... but that doesn't seem to happen nearly as often as a sale. And believe me I'm not trying to criticize, just offering an opinion! 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Rick50

[kotor633]

@Polychop Simulations We all know you guys are busy. But please give a current feedback on the Kiowa here (and if there is already something to report on the Gazelle)

[Looney]

From PC discord, 23-3-2021:

 

Quote

Ok, So Kiowa. Yes I can stream again, but I want to wait till 2.7 has made it puplic. We will face new challanges with 2.7, not sure yet what will break on the kiowa side. I personally hope that noting breaks. in terms of flying. Mature changes of the fm has been finished by 70%. the past days i went through the systems ingame, verified issues that still presist we still have to fix and aswell noted down what has been fixed already. ontop, most 2d art was finished. I am currently working on the animations of the pilots and will get back to the damagemodel after the animations are finished. It is not certain if the option to exit the aircraft will be available on release. The base concept we had in mind would be that you can exist plane a and enter plane b

 

[skins45]

Looks like maybe Q3 at the earliest. Probably more like Q4 if they still have 30%of the fm to go....

 

 

[Rick50]

Well... maybe. It may not take that long to do the last bit of the flight modeling, especially once they have all other work finished and can focus on that last component of the project. That 30% might be primarily due to the 2.7 patch having possible changes in how flight dynamics are calculated... and that might be moderately more complex and require time to figure out... or it might be little different and easy to finish in days, and based on all the work already done.  I only say so because I don't get the impression that they feel it's gonna take as long as Q4.  I kinda think it'll be in the store before the end of summer, along with the Hind around that time too. But I could be worng!

[Japo32]

Take the time needed. Yes, people will buy the Hind and Apache and say that they don't have money for the Kiowa... BUT if the Kiowa is finished product and people talks great things about it, then some will safe some money for it. Remember the Apache and Hind will be EARLY access. 

In any case... reach the perfection is the fist step to failure. Better "aim" for perfection. 

[skins45]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it coming out when it's ready.  But I've been waiting so long (it feels like it anyway)  that I need to start predicting worst case so I feel awesome when it comes out before lol.

[Paladin1cd]

I’m just bothered by lack of transparency. Seriously, if they were ready for release the last of last year to have a date and now it is several quarters away? Doesn’t make any sense at all. 

[Rick50]

 

Transparency??!  

 

These aren't politicians here, nor part of the justice system, nor corupt CEO of a multinational corp...  

 

Honestly, we are NOT owed ANY transparency at this point, pre-sale, pre-release. 

 

I get that you are frustrated, but let's get some perspective here: demand transparency from our govts and public officials... not a small group of flight enthusiasts hoping to eventually sell a digital product for retail entertainment purposes.  

 

Besides, we should all come to grips with the idea that real transparency is being crushed out of existence as we speak. 

[RealDCSpilot]

Who knows... Maybe the flight model got rejected by ED or Bell. Obviously, PC wouldn't share such information. On the other hand this would mean that quality control is in place this time, to prevent another debacle like with the Gazelle. Good for us, the customers.

[swatstar98]

2020 was a bad year for everybody, and PC is a really small company, in the end is better not to rush. And making that kind of assumptions is not good for anybody.

[skins45]

1 hour ago, swatstar98 said:

2020 was a bad year for everybody, and PC is a really small company, in the end is better not to rush. And making that kind of assumptions is not good for anybody.

I don't think anybody is upset that it is taking longer, or want PC to rush.  All most want is an update, any update.  

 

Even "Hey guys, we fell on our faces and have to completely redo the FM" is better at this point than silence.

 

Now, the update above on discord was nice since it basically said we have to wait to see what 2.7 does to it before any more can be shared, and that's fine.  But a lot of people are interested in the building process and it inevitably builds excitement for release (aka revenue).  Couple this with the overall concensus on the Gazelle and it's understandable people are frustrated.

[Rick50]

 

Sometimes though, there's nothing to say. That hasn't already been said. Devs often don't seem to really know when  a product will get to the finish line themselves, and when they guess, it's usually a guess that's wildly off target, so they learn fast that giving estimates at all is actually a BAD THING TO DO. 

 

Even just taking a screenshot for us takes time, first to compose a shot, take a bunch, pick the best, and then uploading them to FB, ED forums, discord and whatnot. Takes up perhaps half an hour of unpaid time away from making the product, from spending time with the kids, from walking the dog, from quality control testing, from keeping the wife happy. Then when we all see the screen, we get excited and frustrated that it's not in the store, and then demand they tell us that it'll be in the store later this week... 

 

.... and the cycle of unhappiness continues.

 

Honestly, it's probably better for a dev team to just keep us all in the dark until release day. No updates, no screens, no release estimates. Might even be better to not even announce the project's existence at all... we aren't frustrated, we aren't demanding updates and screens, they can build at their own pace to maintain their quality control and personal lives in balance. Just that one day a new module pops up in the store and we get a sudden blitz of screens vids and ads for it and a subforum.

 

We as potential customers need to start recognising that this doesn't seem to happen much outside of simulations, but in the simulation industry this "uncertain progress, uncertain finish" is the overwhelming NORM, even for the simplest of modules and sims.  We either need to have more patience than the Saints, or become mushrooms: kept in the dark. 

 

People talk about marketing and building excitement, but this isn't a new SW trillogy here that can grow a MASSIVE buzz over 3 years on trailers and pics alone. There's likely a gap in time, between when the team decides the module is in fact ready to send to the store, and it actually being downloaded by customers generating revenue by way of credit card. Might be two days, for some it might be 3 weeks. But that period is when all the visual candy, the press releases, the module specific subforum ought to be made. So you see an anouncement and a few screens, then you watch a video showing the module, and instead of being frustrated for 3 years uncertain when it'll arrive, you see at the end of the video "In the DCS store NOW!"

 

One module company has screens of so many modules that they are realistically booked up for the next ten years. Seriously. Actually, if they ever even survive long enough as a company to finish and release all the products they have announced, I'd be surprised, yet people demand to know what month all these projects will be released this year... yea, for a few of them try 2033. 

 

Doesn't seem to matter much what kind of module it is, it seems to take about roughly 3 years, give or take a year, to make a DCS module from the time they decide "ok let's make a ____" until your credit card gets drained. Do you want to be frustrated for 3 years waiting, or just be content with what you have and get sudden nice surprises when new goodies appear for purchase?

 

[Fakum]

I think most people would rather hear bad news than no news at all. At least they would know what to expect. I think it just leaves a bad taste in peoples mouth when they are ignored. Just put your cards on the table! People would likely be much more supportive even if they were told there were unforeseen circumstances that have to be worked out. And I also realize I am beating a dead horse here.

[Rick50]

Just to share a little perspective on development timelines and complexities, In the post linked below I note that so far ED's Hornet product has been in development for roughly 5 years, and is still not totally finished (although I think it's close to the finish line now):

 

 

[Fakum]

Sorry, not seeing the relationship at all.

 

[Dangerzone]

On 4/1/2021 at 8:14 AM, Fakum said:

I think most people would rather hear bad news than no news at all. At least they would know what to expect. I think it just leaves a bad taste in peoples mouth when they are ignored. Just put your cards on the table! People would likely be much more supportive even if they were told there were unforeseen circumstances that have to be worked out. And I also realize I am beating a dead horse here.

 

I know I'm one of those. Knowing that no more info will come until 2.7 is released is very handy (and understandable). Knowing 70% of the FM is done and that I shouldn't be expecting a release anytime soon after 2.7 (only updated info) and that maybe I can get it for Christmas this year is far better than 10 months of silence too. We're not owed anything at all - but in the same state, giving a bit of information as courtesy goes a long way. Thanks polychop for posting on discord, and @Looneyfor reposting here!

Edited April 7, 2021 by Dangerzone

[Fri13]

On 3/28/2021 at 8:14 PM, Japo32 said:

Take the time needed. Yes, people will buy the Hind and Apache and say that they don't have money for the Kiowa...

 

I believe that Kiowa Warrior will be no brainer deal for anyone who fly Apache, or who want to fly a with a friend who flies Apache but doesn't want to / can't fly Apache because it will have challenging controls. Like you will likely be able fly Kiowa Warrior alone where Apache requires far more the co-pilot. 

And Kiowa Warrior acting as a flying JTAC for A-10C II, F/A-18C, F-16CM, AV-8B N/A.... It will be amazing thing for any fighter pilot who want to have good eyes on the ground. 

Apache is not going to offer those as much (depends the datalink connection between Apache and A-10C). 

And if Kiowa Warrior comes 90% completed with avionics, weapons, and flight modeling, then it will be pretty great alternative for Apache alone.

 

But I totally will be expecting that we can land in Kiowa Warrior and jump out with a MANPADS to shoot down those pesky fighters!

 

[Rick50]

 

Geez, the Nexus6 are really leveling up!

 

One thing we can look forward to: we'll probably get some kind of update maybe a few weeks after 2.7 is released, when the team is confident they understand the new changes, and what it will take for the Kiowa to be 2.7 compliant

[Coota0]

15 hours ago, Fri13 said:

 

 

And Kiowa Warrior acting as a flying JTAC for A-10C II, F/A-18C, F-16CM, AV-8B N/A.... It will be amazing thing for any fighter pilot who want to have good eyes on the ground. 

Apache is not going to offer those as much (depends the datalink connection between Apache and A-10C). 

 

There is not datalink in the Kiowa, everything is passed over the radio or lased to get another aircraft on target (laser spot trackers or grids can be used) BFT is the closest the Kiowa comes to a datalink...and BFT is not a datalink.

[Fri13]

1 hour ago, Coota0 said:

There is not datalink in the Kiowa, everything is passed over the radio or lased to get another aircraft on target (laser spot trackers or grids can be used) BFT is the closest the Kiowa comes to a datalink...and BFT is not a datalink.

 

Didn't talk about Kiowa having datalink, but laser designator and act as JTAC over radio.... The Apache might have a datalink to A-10C (my only questionable argument) that would make it better if A-10C pilots can see where Apache is and its pilot can see where A-10C is to sync their attacks.

[Wychmaster]

Quiet is over

 

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Wychmaster

[Volator]

It's very beautiful! Love the static elements.

 

 

[Rakkis]

I like the views, but screenshots are not "News".

[skins45]

There's no difference between those screenshots and any others we've seen the last 6 months.  Silence is not over in the slightest.

Edited April 13, 2021 by skins45