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DCS: F-14 Priority Issues


Cobra847

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JESUS CHRIST BOYS!!!!! Let me tell you, probably the worst thing writing this drunk but nothing makes your balls tingle more than Hotel Bravos F-14 and the Top Gun Sound Track on the Super Carrier. Three Margirtias in and ready on the cat. I owe them my left one for putting me in Mavs seat on the weekend and 3 or 4 drinks in. TALK TO ME GOOSE!!!!! Let this become the board for flying the Tomcat under the influence of amazingness in VR.

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JESUS CHRIST BOYS!!!!! Let me tell you, probably the worst thing writing this drunk but nothing makes your balls tingle more than Hotel Bravos F-14 and the Top Gun Sound Track on the Super Carrier. Three Margirtias in and ready on the cat. I owe them my left one for putting me in Mavs seat on the weekend and 3 or 4 drinks in. TALK TO ME GOOSE!!!!! Let this become the board for flying the Tomcat under the influence of amazingness in VR.

 

Texas.....representing

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I cant say the above will be my last. For some reason lately, I have gravitated to this forum when drunk and flying DCS. I do not do it often, but when I do, its DCS world in VR. You would be shocked how well you can fly the Huey after several margaritas. I can only imagine what the A-6 will be like.............................:music_whistling:

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  • 2 weeks later...
F-14 is broken on Beta. TUNE TAC in ARC-159 menu is not working (DCS is crashing). TUNE manual is also not working or working sometimes

Did you mean -182?

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F-14 is broken on Beta. TUNE TAC in ARC-159 menu is not working (DCS is crashing). TUNE manual is also not working or working sometimes

Tested both and it worked fine for me @latest beta.

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Jester sucks alot of the time - still switching to RWS after a Phoenix launch for no reason and cant seem to find targets that I can see visually straight ahead.

 

I wish the commands we give him would stick until we tell him otherwise - but I can tell him to go to TWS and a few seconds later he just switches back to RWS on his own. WTF?

 

Really starting to take a bit of the shine off of this module for me. Time to dive into some other aircraft as I'm frustrated with Jester and the lack of control over targeting.

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Jester won’t lock targets within visual range by design. Once you get that close it’s the pilot’s job to lock the bandit with PLM, PAL or VSL while the RIO mans the countermeasures and keeps tabs on the bandit visually.

True, but this might have weight in any argument, if only Jester would spot a / one (1) BVR bandit at 150 - 70 nm merging, if that one is not dead ahead, say 20 or 30 degrees off, for which the F14 was built to intercept.

This one present Jester appears not to know how to scan properly.

 

Which is more than just annoying, he is realism breaking stupid, that would get any Jester like real RIO thrown from the back seat in real life, I would assume.

 

For that matter, HB should do the same to this one Jester, throw this one out, and HB needs to create us a better Jester, someone perhaps called Goose,

who is more like the million dollar trained and qualified Real ones that occupy these seats,

and who not only know their stuff, but are actually impressively good at that, knowing how to - always - radar spot a - new - bandit one foot beyond visual range at 2 or 3 or 4 o'clock, etcetera not just at 12 o'clock, which happens too often, and is annoyingly dumb.


Edited by majapahit

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Tested both and it worked fine for me @latest beta.

I discussed this with other users of the module and tested this problem to find out the reason of crash. Looks like DCS SRS is crashing DCS if you using this on F-14 on DCS Beta. Interesting thing is DCS SRS is working fine on DCS stable version. This problem manifests itself only on F-14 module

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I discussed this with other users of the module and tested this problem to find out the reason of crash. Looks like DCS SRS is crashing DCS if you using this on F-14 on DCS Beta. Interesting thing is DCS SRS is working fine on DCS stable version. This problem manifests itself only on F-14 module

 

On OB, I use SRS daily...flying the Tomcat and haven't had a single problem with it.

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Jester won’t lock targets within visual range by design. Once you get that close it’s the pilot’s job to lock the bandit with PLM, PAL or VSL while the RIO mans the countermeasures and keeps tabs on the bandit visually.

I'm talking when still outside of range for PAL etc., - I can see contrails far off - yet Jester has the scope clean in TWS or keeps switching to RWS or does get tracks in TWS but immediately switches to RWS as soon as I launch the Phoenixes and the missiles go stupid. This incredibly frustrating and is more recent behavior - hard to enjoy DCS when they seem to keep breaking things that were working fine.

 

I'm taking a break from the Tomcat for now until they get this crap sorted out...

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Jester won’t lock targets within visual range by design.

 

The problem is that he often fails to get a lock on targets that are beyond visual range too.

 

I do GCI regularly in MP and I've lost count of how many times Jester has gotten my tomcat teammates in real trouble (often killed).

 

The following is a rather common chain of events in MP:

 

 

1- I give the BRA to my teammate. Bandit hot, high, at ~50nm.

 

2- Teammate tells me that he has the bandit in DL, but Jester can't seem to get a lock

 

3- Bandit keeps coming, I give an updated BRA to my teammate

 

4- Teammate reports that Jester still can't get a lock

 

5- I urge my teammate to fire when possible and to break off if Jester still can't get a lock at ~25nm

 

6a- Teammate disregards my advice and keeps heading straight into the bandit, still unable to get a lock outside 15nm (PAL range). He eats the incoming missile before getting a chance to switch to PAL.

 

6b- Teammate disregards my advice and keeps heading straight into the bandit. Neither Jester nor PAL manage to get a lock on the bandit, despite my BRA updates... teammate dies.

 

6c- Same as before, but my teammate manages to get a PAL lock in the last moments... his phoenix goes dumb and he eats incoming missile.

 

6d- Same as before, but the phoenix manages to hit, at least.

 

6e- Teammate follows my advice and manages to defeat the incoming missile. Still, he has to burn a lot of fuel to get back to safety, while the bandit gives chase.

 

The result is often the same: Initiative is lost, our team can't rely on the tomcat for CAP like this... all because of Jester/TWS/phoenix problems.

 

 

 

The tomcat carries fat phoenixes and a powerful radar for a reason... if it can't consistently get locks and fire beyond 20nm (the very things it was designed to do, which enemy fighters are able to do), it becomes kind of useless.


Edited by Hardcard
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The problem is that he often fails to get a lock on targets that are beyond visual range too.

What you describe sounds like basic radar operation skills. Jester does not lock anything by himself. You have to ask him to do that. The radar has to be active, pointed at the right direction and set to the right elevation. You have to manage all that too. Also there is even the option to lock a specific DL contact. If it was that common that you cannot find a single hot target the bug section would be flooded by proper bug reports.

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Are there also plans to make Jester react to hostile targets received via datalink on his own? It looks to me that he is not trying to get them on radar even when they should be easily lockable by just slightly changing radar elevation or angle and would be well within AIM54 effective range.


Edited by Arctu
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I'd really like for them to shoot for the moon with Jester and have a toned back version for online if that's possible. I'd rather Jester be like riding with "Bio" or "Goose" than an AI that's purposely held back to be "fair" online and encourage multicrew.

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What you describe sounds like basic radar operation skills. Jester does not lock anything by himself. You have to ask him to do that. The radar has to be active, pointed at the right direction and set to the right elevation. You have to manage all that too. Also there is even the option to lock a specific DL contact. If it was that common that you cannot find a single hot target the bug section would be flooded by proper bug reports.

 

Yes! I second this.. Jester is just a control interface so that you as the pilot can operate the radar. Jester has some bugs occasionally, but 95% of the complaints are operator error by the human pilots.

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Yes! I second this.. Jester is just a control interface so that you as the pilot can operate the radar. Jester has some bugs occasionally, but 95% of the complaints are operator error by the human pilots.

 

 

 

 

This is correct. Most of the complaints or perceived "bugs" that are brought to us are related to 2 main things: a lack of understanding of Jester's limitations, or too high expectations of his role and purpose and a lack of understanding of the AWG-9.

 

In MP Jester is ofc a cruch compared to a real RIO, because now the pilot has to think for the RIO as well. No matter how much we would put into Jester, he'll never be able to think on his own. So that's a downside. But he wasn't meant to be a mind blowing Multiplayer feature. He was meant so that you can fly the Tomcat alone, if you want/must. He will always be a lesser substitute for a human RIO. The real treat of the Tomcat here is multicrew capability.

 

As for many of the points brought up here, especially in the rundown of the GCI intercept: I am sorry to say it, but that is both bad SA and bad piloting. We performed a MP test with the devs 2 weeks ago, to test TWS and Jester, etc for ourselves. We all flew with Jester only. Between the 6 of us we had 20 kills within 2 hrs, and only 2 losses at the end (because we were logging out and recapping already, not even due to fighting). But that is because we both understand his limits and the AWG-9. At no point did I feel, I cannot find someone, or he doesnt do what I want...

 

Most folks first and foremost underestimate how small the cone of the radar gets at closer ranges, and in the Tomcat that is anything below 30nm. You have to help Jester and point your nose and radar. You have to be aware of what you are looking at. You cannot push, before you dont have a picture. You cannot just STT lock stuff criss cross or expect TWS to be in any kind of way stable, if you or the bandit is maneuvering hard. Hold still. You are a Tomcat, if you did it right, you have at least 60nm to go, before that bandit figure out that you are hunting him. If not, you pushed for no reason at all. Why would you? You are a fleet defense air superiority fighter. Sweep where you are expected to sweep, at least 50nm ahead of you, then return and wait. Help your phoenix missiles, imagine their path ahead and lay them in that path. Dont fire too early, dont fire too late. When trying to STT, make sure you actually use the right option. "Lock bandit ahead" wont do anything, if all tracks are still marked as bogeys and not IFFed. Then, why STT lock at all? The AWG-9 prioritizes well, if you sort well. When you do STT lock, make sure you are within 40nm and switch to PSTT earliest. And when below 20nm, dont even think about it, use PAL, etc etc ... Many of these things never get considered. Just some fruit for thought.

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[...] You have to help Jester and point your nose and radar. [...]

 

When there is a hostile contact on datalink, Jester should have all the information he needs to lock it up or get it on TWS. He has the horizontal angle to the contact, the distance, its altitude and can use this information to look up the proper radar elevation from a table. Yet he ignores those targets and when I tell him to lock them up all I get from him is "Unable" and "Can't do that" because he's off dreaming about Meg rather than working the radar.


Edited by Arctu
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When there is a hostile contact on datalink, Jester should have all the information he needs to lock it up or get it on TWS. He has the horizontal angle to the contact, the distance, its altitude and can use this information to look up the proper radar elevation from a table. Yet he ignores those targets and when I tell him to lock them up all I get from him is "Unable" and "Can't do that" because he's off dreaming about Meg rather than working the radar.

 

 

 

 

Again, you are expecting something he should do, which he cant. To code that is an incredible task, and takes lots of time. This is why we don't have him sanitize the sky on his own, or react on DL targets. You know where everything is, so you need to tell him where to look for now.

 

Maybe we will take a look into Jester sanatizing the sky on his own or reacting to DL targets, but no promise for now. It's not like we wouldn't love for him to do that. We would. But again, everything Jester is just extremely complicated and time exhausting on that level, thus we need to see first if time and ressources allow it. It is by no means a planned feature atm. Thank you for the kind understanding.

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Again, you are expecting something he should do, which he cant. To code that is an incredible task, and takes lots of time. This is why we don't have him sanitize the sky on his own, or react on DL targets. You know where everything is, so you need to tell him where to look for now.

 

Maybe we will take a look into Jester sanatizing the sky on his own or reacting to DL targets, but no promise for now. It's not like we wouldn't love for him to do that. We would. But again, everything Jester is just extremely complicated and time exhausting on that level, thus we need to see first if time and ressources allow it. It is by no means a planned feature atm. Thank you for the kind understanding.

 

Can you explain why he many times immediately switches to RWS (for no apparent reason) after firing a Phoenix or why he repeatedly keeps switching back to RWS immediately after I tell him to use TWS. If I jump to the backseat and turn on TWS, I have a good track that holds - but when you jump back upfront, Jester immediately switches back to RWS again. Super frustrating!

 

BTW - I'm only doing single player, if that matters!


Edited by wadman
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