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Pilot Body Update from Aug, 18th


IronMike

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The bloke who said he wouldn't buy the module due to a lack of a pilot body? Even for a child, it's beyond silly, look at what you are missing.

 

While I've not tried VR,

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 this is where we can talk for hours and hours 95% of VR gamers can no longer play without the body

you don't play in VR so it's hard for you to understand 😉

 

everyone sees noon at their door as we say at home. but it is not important for you, it is for others and vice versa ^^

 

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1 hour ago, Victory205 said:

 My view is that while you say you want immersion, you really don't, not all the way, because you don't know what that entails. You can't really move your head under max G, you can move your eyes to see maybe 20-30º, but you aren't going to change sides with the alacrity of a one G head tracking device.

Personally I would love that to be implemented in DCS. Some kind of mechanic that prevents head tracking under G would be great.

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14 minutes ago, kaneda06 said:

 this is where we can talk for hours and hours 95% of VR gamers can no longer play without the body

you don't play in VR so it's hard for you to understand 😉

 

everyone sees noon at their door as we say at home. but it is not important for you, it is for others and vice versa ^^

 

I know quite a number of the people I fly with use VR (myself included) not one of us cannot play without the pilot body a couple even prefer it off. I think 95% is a gross exaggeration.

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15 minutes ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

Make it worse with the HGU-33 too, part of why lighter helmets were designed and implemented were to reduce strain. Also one of the complaints about the VTAS I system was its weight under G loads.

Evolution continued to improve the helmets and masks. The APH/MS22001 combination that came before the HGU-33/MBU-14 was even heavier and more awkward. Hell, the butterfly attachments for the MS22001 were pretty weak. I can pull it loose with only a very little effort. Prolonged extra Gs will put the mask in your lap. And then there is the discomfort of the nose and mouth having their own holes in the mask. I don't know how mustachioed fighter pilots of the 1960's were comfortable at all.

DCSF-14AOK3A.jpg

DCSF14AOK3B.png

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32 minutes ago, kaneda06 said:

 this is where we can talk for hours and hours 95% of VR gamers can no longer play without the body

you don't play in VR so it's hard for you to understand 😉

 

everyone sees noon at their door as we say at home. but it is not important for you, it is for others and vice versa ^^

 

I have >1k hours in DCS VR and I always preferred playing without the pilot body.

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4 minutes ago, kaneda06 said:

 

if we take the 5 pages the majority of vr gamers want the body

 

 there will always be one or two to say well , me I fly VR without gnagna 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes most vr gamers and non vr gamers want the pilot body, but that is not what your argument was, you said they could no longer play without the body I think in this whole thread (And I have not re read the whole thing today) there has been all of two people (I'm including you in that number, correct me if I am mistaken) who have said something to the effect of they won't fly without the pilot body.

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Now I feel the need to confess before posting again, that I am civilian, have nothing of military clothes or gears at home and few pounds overweight after the christmas days on top of regular overweight. Damn,... I even had rejected military service in my youth in my country to do social work for the red cross instead ( it was better paid ). Anyways ...

As a regular DCS user, @Victory205 I´ve read your experiences of real life with growing interest, but let me get back for a moment with feed on the ground on where the discussion came from. It could be observed, that the growing demand for the pilot body is directly connected to the growing popularity of VR. I don´t think this demand is a demand for novelty and might wear off after a while. Speaking only for myself it´s quite the other way around: I´m only flying in VR and usually for the startup process of any module, I deactivate the pilot body to use switches with the mouse only needed for the startup ( and mostly difficult to reach in any VR cockpit ). After everything is set and I´m in the air, I turn on the VR pilot body if available, just because the longer and the more I fly, the more I miss the body in the cockpit. It´s a strange feeling VR creates at this point, which does not arise, when flying on the flatscreen. 

I´m no scientist, but VR tricks the brain a lot to have this intensity and sensation; it might trick the brain as much as after a while you are instinctively looking for an indication of physical selfawareness in the cockpit, maybe... who knows. Maybe that´s why VR Players, including myself, are demanding a VR pilot body, while I wouldn´t, when playing on the flatscreen - it just satisfies in VR and don´t cause weirdness and the feeling of a missing body after a while. 

About animations and how movements could be translated into VR is another question. So far nothing worked adequate for me, except I would stick sensors on every finger and limb, which accurately track every movement and a software inside DCS which translate it to the virtual body limbs. The reality is, that there is no full body tracking and if, I wouldn´t use it might be more uncomfortable than a real pilots gear.

I don´t know, what Heatblur got in the oven about animated pilot body, but I´m sure it will not be, that the movements of the real body will be animated for the VR body. Maybe little animations, like switching the landing gear or rudimentary movements of the VR pilot body. Most important is, that there is a body, the more detailed and physically correct the better, I would say. One thing which is very cool, is that the head movement is fully translated - this could be done easily more accurately. Currently if you´re looking to the left or right to your wingman, the wingman actually sees your head looking at him, that´s very cool and would be even cooler in an A-6 Intruder Cockpit, in which the Head of the VR pilot would be fully animated and translates the movements exactly.

Finally, the regular DCS VR Player does have a lot of equipment, like button boxes, HOTAS, Thrustmaster MFDs, etc. to control the cockpit functions and knows how to use them blindly, so a VR pilot body won´t hinder to control the functions in the cockpit.

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1 hour ago, kaneda06 said:

 

if we take the 5 pages the majority of vr gamers want the body

 

 there will always be one or two to say well , me I fly VR without gnagna 

 

 

 

 

 

But the VR users aren't necessarily the majority of DCS users. That's the point being made, and it's unlikely to increase in drastic numbers between DCS' slow improvements in performance and the current GPU/chip supply issues that have pushed the GPUs needed for VR into absurd price territories.

I don't care if I can see the pilot body in cockpit, I already have enough things to focus on when flying to add being bothered if the body doesn't reach out and click buttons as I click them. Because IMO a body that just sits there isn't really adding anything.

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I'm a 5% guy then.

 

Yes, I turn the body on in a plane / module that provides it, but just to get my seating right.

Since I can't sit in the real thing and figure out the seating position, I use the body and put my head where the guy would have his, after that I turn it off.

For me it is more disturbing to see limps that are not mine, then just to fly as a ghost. I must admit so, the new mixed reality stuff, shown by I guess a Swedish company at the I/ITSEC is a great thing, seeing actually your on limps move and throw switches while the rest is just VR. A couple of years more and we don't need body's any more, because we see our own in the cockpit. That will the day I start to hope for the holodeck before I die. 

 

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the only thing that pisses me off is when someone asks for the pilot's body there are always guys it looks like for fun or to piss off i don't know who is writing to you , there are other priorities gna gnagna

 

but damn maybe only on certain points that guys claim like a radar function or anything holds if function on the IR track on such a module does not work and some guys are asking for an update

I don't play in IR track but that's not why I'm going to say it's not a priority

 I keep my mouth shut, it's not because it's not a priority for me that it's not for them!!!!

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people's behavior and selfishness is annoying

 

as I said, I never respond to someone who expresses a wish on dcs: "it's not a priority", even for something insignificant for me, maybe for him it's important but the hell why would I have to tell him that.

I bind and I close it but for others it's stronger than them he has to bring her back all the time

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Hey i'm 6' tall and can swim a mile in just about half an hour! But then again.......i do find pilot bodies in cockpits to be incredibly obscuring so, i don't really want one in DCS.... 

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On 1/14/2022 at 6:03 PM, Victory205 said:

Kidding aside (you all should still get into shape for simple health reasons, start today), a pilot body wearing an SV2 vest (added four or five inches in some places, especially when carry a handgun and ammo) and gear gets in the way of a lot of switches. The F14 cockpit was roomy for a fighter (I'm 6'3", and could move my elbows outboard about two inches and touch the canopy rails), but you were still constantly having to move an arm, elbow, hand, leg etc to see switches and or CB's, so I'm not sure how that would translate to TrackIR or VR players. Good chance, like the control stick, that a lot of folks will turn it off after the novelty wears off.

The bloke who said he wouldn't buy the module due to a lack of a pilot body? Even for a child, it's beyond silly, look at what you are missing.

While I've not tried VR, there is something a little unrealistic about the cockpit view in all desktop flight sims. I'm not sure if it is due to eye position or the lack of stereoscopic vision (VR users, please chime in). Seeing the HSD around the F14 stick wan't a big deal, but it is in the sim. The canopy bow and windshield frame is nothing in real life, but since it is always in focus from a single eye reference, it is in the sim. Take note the next time you drive you car, the window pillars don't intrude like they do on a screen. Focus on this dot ⚫  on your screen. Back up a few feet, then hold your thumb up at arms length directly over the dot. Can you still see the dot? The same thing that happens to your thumb, happens to the windscreen structure. 

My view is that while you say you want immersion, you really don't, not all the way, because you don't know what that entails. You can't really move your head under max G, you can move your eyes to see maybe 20-30º, but you aren't going to change sides with the alacrity of a one G head tracking device. You aren't going to make delicate switch changes, and most of you (since you admit to being flabby pools of blubber), are going to gray out at 5G's sustained, get tunnel vision at 6, and become tired after about 180 degrees of turn and take the aircraft vertical to get rid of some of the G (we had a big talking little guy in our squadron that couldn't handle 6 G's for more than a few seconds, he'd always go vertical at the pass, easy kill).

The O2 mask isn't going to pull down even with the tip of your nose, pulling your helmet down with it, so you can't see as far in the vertical plane. All of the flight sims that I've sampled make it seem like the pilot isn't wearing a helmet at all (which would be nice in real life, if there was a way to keep an O2 mask in place or increase the pressurization). Give me a Bose A20 and Google (or better yet, Apple) Glasses for HMCS any day.

If you manage to depart, and spin, your face isn't going to be against the top of the stick, with your head next to the ACM panel, and you can get full control throw, which isn't realistic at all. You can easily recover from a flat spin using proper controls in the sim, where you couldn't in the aircraft. Don't believe the BS artists on that accord.

Oh, and get rid of that comfy gaming chair you spent $600 on. Sit on a plywood board...with nails that begin to stick up after an hour and a half. That's immersion. 😉

Oh, I dream about all of it simulated. But I know that majority could not handle this much reality and I doubt anyone will make it that real in a game. I know it was bread and butter for you and you'd prefer to just use the fun parts now, we all do, but mind that even the bit tests are excitement for those that could not have done it IRL, and some of us do like it as real as possible whatever comfort we have to sacrifice.

You should definitely try VR. The view on a monitor is usually distorted and only correct if you have one eye - lack of parallax like you mentioned. It's totally different experience with VR - you're no longer watching TV - you're in there. I'd like to see your first reaction - give us some feedback, please, when you do.

@Lt_Jaeger since you don't fit into a cockpit just pretend you're remotely flying QF-14 😉


Edited by draconus

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21 hours ago, draconus said:

@Lt_Jaeger since you don't fit into a cockpit just pretent you're remotely flying QF-14 😉

I might, or might not have exaggerated it a bit..... 🤷‍♂️

I did fit in a Mirage 2000 and could operate the controls, while I was wondering how my French comrade, which was the pilot of that thing and twice of me, could even pull on the stick. F 16 was also a good fit. That was without equipment, of course.

Since THEN I had my back surgery and subsecently gained weight, but the bigger problem would be anyhow more my brain capacity. It was never big enough to remotely become a pilot.... 

So I settled to do it in the comfort of my home and if I lose, I just hit the reset knob. Nobody gets hurt..... besides my neck maybe, doing the VR. But this is now petty far off topic...

 

Anyhow, back to the VR Body, still not my thing but I will check whats Heatblur is cooking up. 

 


Edited by Lt_Jaeger
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I never understood these discussions. It is coming. Those who want it, can turn it on. Those who do not want it, can turn it off. Neither side influences our to-do list, really. That is the beauty of options. They are optional.

Each to their own = a happy place. 🙂


Edited by IronMike
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I never understood these discussions. It is coming. Those who want it, can turn it on. Those who do not want it, can turn it off. Neither side influences our to-do list, really. That is the beauty of options. They are optional.

 

Each to their own = a happy place. 

🙂

Thanks you ironmike !!!

Im totaly agree with you

you don't want it so you take it off

but those who want it at least the option is there!!!

sometimes it's an option that doesn't interest us at all but sometimes it will be an option that we were waiting for

I totally agree with you whatever the wish requested by certain players, we don't have to go out, it's not a priority or it's useless out of pure selfishnes

the option does not interest you, it does not matter go your way the next option may be yours

 

 

 


Edited by kaneda06
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vor 10 Stunden schrieb IronMike:

Neither side influences our to-do list, really.

That's the key phrase, IMO.

That was what many here tried to communicate to those that subsequently throw accusations of "selfishness" and even "spitefulness" around, and think all are generally being big, bad meanies! Heatblur has been open about its list of priorities here and all over this subforum, so I don't understand becoming all emotional about it. 

! However, I need to point out that I don't think anyone in this thread asked HB to not make a pilot body. Just that they, personally, don't need one. I believe that's an important distinction.!

I can only speak for myself, and I initially responded to the person who basically wanted Heatblur to drop everything and include the pilot body immediately, or else he won't buy the module, with the additional twist of giving unsolicited business advice.

(Almost) Everyone loves options. I would never dream of going on an online crusade to deny anyone their optional features. And I assume neither does anyone else in this thread.

 

If anyone cares, personally, I am actually quite neutral on the issue of having a pilot body: currently I absolutely don't miss having one (I honestly don't ever notice the absence of virtual limbs) and I find the current implementation in other modules detrimental to functionality (except in the Huey, where nothing gets obscured, so I don't care either way).

But I find the concept of a functional virtual body representation - an avatar - intriguing and I'm completely open to an implementation - and would welcome one! - that adds value to the VR experience.

A good example of immersion (from outside the "sim world") would be the body mod someone made for Skyrim VR: it replaced the floating hands with a body that reacts to player input (can also pick up things, hold on to them etc). Simple but effective.

 

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The great thing, which I can assure to everyone here is: you all matter, and all your wishes matter to us. And whenever we can, we will try to accommodate both (all) sides 100%. That is something you can always assume, when you think of the house Heatblur and something we will always pride ourselves in. We strongly believe in options. So, no need to argue among each other: just tell us your wishes, and know that we listen. Know that we will always try to fulfill them, when feasible and reasonable. 🙂

It is a very simple deal: all you guys need to care about is your personal wishes. And we then sort priority, feasibility and everything else - so that you guys can go and focus on what is really important: having fun with DCS. 😉


Edited by IronMike
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Please feel free to contact me anytime, either via PM here, on the forums, or via email through the contact form on our homepage.

 

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2 hours ago, Victory205 said:

So this means glovevanes, right?

 

 

Thread lightly least thee invites the Delta fanatics as well! 😳

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