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Missing mandatory CE marking for the European market


QuiGon

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So, I just saw this:

So i just recieved my Throttle and it's a great piece of equipment. Shipping was fast, 6 days from China to Germany. My only gripe is, that it does not have a CE certification wich is mandatory for electronic devices in the EU. Electronic devices without CE certificate are illegal to import, sell and operate within the european union. If the shipment gets checked by national customs, it will be confiscated. European buyers should be aware of that risk. The device is from outstanding quality and i doubt that there will be any issues. But the fact, that there hasn't been a single reviewer mentioning this major issue with WinWing, is very dissapointing. And their products beeing illegal in europe, IS a major issue IMO.

 

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If this is true, then this is indeed a huge issue, as it effectively makes this an illegal product throughout Europe (the EEA). European customers should really be aware of this, as this means the product can be confiscated by authorites when it gets imported as it might not meet the European health, safety, and environmental protection standards!


Edited by QuiGon

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AFAIK:

 

CE marking is only needed if a company (re)sells something in the EEA. If a consumer in EEA buys directly from China or the US for private use, this marking is not required.

 

It is not illegal to use products without CE markings in EEA.

Uhm no, according to German customs (should be the same in all EEA countries as it is a EEA regulation) the CE marking is mandatory for all electronic devices that are to be used within the EEA. It doesn't matter if it is privately used or not. The device can be a hazard even in private use.

https://www.zoll.de/EN/Businesses/Movement-of-goods/Import/Restrictions/Goods/Product-safety/marginalspalte_faq.html?faqCalledDoc=203388


Edited by QuiGon

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AFAIK:

 

 

 

CE marking is only needed if a company (re)sells something in the EEA. If a consumer in EEA buys directly from China or the US for private use, this marking is not required.

 

 

It is not illegal to use products without CE markings in EEA.

 

I can assure you, that i had a phonecall with my local customs office to ask them how taxes are going to be handled. The official told me twice to check if the electronic device has a CE certification, because otherwise it will be confiscated if the shipment is checked by customs. He said it is illegal to ship it to the EEA. The risk is low, as customs propably check only 5-10% of all shipments, but if they do... well the risk is there. Mine arrived and i haven't heard of anyone having trouble, but someone will be number one. This is the reason why even Virpil has a CE certification and propably the reason, why Winwing has trouble finding a european partner/reseller. They told they would do so, but nothing realy happend. Don't get me wrong, the throttle is absolutely nice and the best i've ever had. But ordering is a risk for european buyers.

 

Cheers

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  • 1 month later...

Ahhhh I was just popping onto the forums to try and find some upto date reviews on this product, as I was rather tempted. However I was aware that there were a few issues with the pre production units sent out, hence why we never got proper reviews. Sadly however IF they truly are not CE certified then that rules them out, regardless of the reviews out there. Bugger.

 

 

 

 

 

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I can just see a CE marking on the box

panels.thumb.jpg.8e54d34245ab4067f24ab7cf4259382d.jpg

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I guess to get those kind of certificates is not cheap, so if they begin to work on this, you must expect an increase in the price. I guess none of these small companies (WW, VKB, Virpil, etc.) have these kind of certificates.

 

That's not totally correct. Virpil does have a CE certification (at least my devices do have it) and so does VKB afaik. And since i.e. Realsimulator/Slaw Devices/MFG are located in the EU, you can be sure they have it as well. And an increase in price is absolutely acceptable compared to the risk of having your shipment checked and confiscated by national customs. In this case, you will even pay for the destruction of your device. It may be possible that the official allows you to ship it back, but as far as i experienced national customs aren't very customer friendly but more focused on law and order. One beeing interested in WW products has to decide for himself, if he wants to take the risk. But the point is, that people should at least be aware about this risk and not a single reviewer mentioned that issue. In no way blaming reviewers from overseas (US, Canada, etc.) that aren't affected by this, but there are several european reviews (french, english, portuguese, etc) of the WW Hotas on YT and all you hear from them is how great the throttle is. Yes it is, i realy enjoy mine... but it is still illegal to import, sell and operate in europe. And in case of warranty, i'm doomed as well as the shipment may be checked by customs for export ( when going to WW for repair) as well as when beeing shipped back to me. Double the risk. So european buyers are literally purchasing a product without a real warranty. Unthinkable with VKB, Virpil, or even MFG or Slaw Devices

 

I can just see a CE marking on the box

 

Not sure if this is the chinese CE marking wich stands for "China Export" or the CE certification we're talking about (Conformité Européenne), but the european certification has to be on the device and not on the box. The Hornet panels were on my wishlist but scratched them after i realised my Throttle lacks the certification. Sadly couldn't find any informations on the WW homepage about this and it would be great they got their stuff straight. They better do as a large percentage of the flight sim market is located in europe and the information WW devices beeing illegal in europe is spreading. And such an issue can make a company fail. No offense, but honestly i don't trust anything except for a picture of a WW device having a original CE certification, posted on the forum by someone from the community who has recieved his order. My communication with WW about this issue was too disapointing and i had the feeling they don't take it serious. And it was not like i was complaining, i was offering assistance with informations of how to get it and what regulations they need to fullfill.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Wouldn't want to upset some bureaucrat in Brussels now would we, cross our T's and dot our i's........indoctrinated and brainwashed by the EU.

 

I have the throttle and panels here, they are beautifully made, they haven't blown up, and they haven't stolen my data, and they look supurb, if you won't buy it because it doesn't have a little sticker on to satisfy some bureaucratic BS from Brussels, that is entirely your choice, all I would say is these are USB devices drawing very little power, ie 5v, had they been full blown electronics drawing proper current etc I would expect them to be made to a higher standard as well.

 

Having had to take my throttle apart from brand new (I broke the socket myself) I can attest to them being very nicely made inside....no cheap sub standard rubbish here.

 

20201120_153102.thumb.jpg.38833f0a806b4d2e44f5fbaac4ca58aa.jpg

 

 

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I agree they are well made and WW may or may not (I don't know) went through the testing.

 

It will cost money and time to get certification I'm certain of that.

 

It's not an argument on how safe or well made the device is, without certification these devices will get impounded when customs catch on, if they have not been through the certification process.

 

No matter what your opinion is on the EU rules,or otherwise, if your in the club these are the laws that will get enforced, just sayin' :music_whistling:

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@Phantom_Mark This "bureaucratic bullshit" is there to ensure a certain level of quality, safety and environmental protection, which is often lacking in products from other parts of the world like China.

Does that mean that every product that doesn't care about this will fall apart immediately? No, of course not, but many do and such a marking helps the customer to avoid such products and its hazards.

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I have the throttle and panels here, they are beautifully made, they haven't blown up, and they haven't stolen my data, and they look supurb...

That is not what the CE certificate is all about...:music_whistling: as others already mentioned.

 

 

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@Phantom_Mark This "bureaucratic bullshit" is there to ensure a certain level of quality, safety and environmental protection, which is often lacking in products from other parts of the world like China.

Does that mean that every product that doesn't care about this will fall apart immediately? No, of course not, but many do and such a marking helps the customer to avoid such products and its hazards.

 

I absolutely respect and understand that, however when it comes to some products a level of common sense can be applied, when we are talking about power packs, batteries, or stuff which has a real safety issue there is absolutely a great reason to observe and conform to the CE markings etc, my only point was don't cut off your nose to spite your face when it comes to the potential purchase of a relatively benign object like this WinWing kit.......

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It's not an argument on how safe or well made the device is, without certification these devices will get impounded when customs catch on, if they have not been through the certification process.

 

Yep, I was just pushing the point for people not to be scared of these things from a safety point of view, completely get what you are saying, mine arrived to the UK without issue and very happy with all of the kit.

 

 

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Yep, I was just pushing the point for people not to be scared of these things from a safety point of view, completely get what you are saying, mine arrived to the UK without issue and very happy with all of the kit.

 

 

Will Brexit get rid of this??

 

Really glad I live in Aus, non of this bs to contend with!

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Will Brexit get rid of this??

 

Really glad I live in Aus, non of this bs to contend with!

 

Like everything, the idea is often a good thing, but then gets carried away..........I personally hope we keep some of the more sensible stuff we had within the euro partnership, and then ditch the crazy stuff.?

 

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Really glad I live in Aus, non of this bs to contend with!

 

Are you seriously saying, there are no certifications for electronic devices, wich ensure a minimum level of safety and environmental protection in AUS? Realy?

 

Now i'm confused, i always thought that Australia is a top tier developed country, as most developed countries have safety certifications for electronic devices. The USA do have their FCC mark, so does Kanada, Taiwan has BSMI, South-Korea has the KC mark and Russia has the GOST-R certificate. The WW throttle does not have any of those certifications, at least mine does not even have markings for voltage etc.. What do you think? This sounds very much as if the WW devices are illegal in each of those countries, doesen't it? Read it up, this is easy to find with google.

 

And btw. hope you got they irony, because google came up with following:

 

"On March 1st 2016 Australia introduced a new single compliance mark for Electrical Safety and EMC approvals. The new single compliance mark is called the Regulatory Compliance Mark, or RCM mark. It replaces the C-Tick, A-Tick and Unique Electrical Safety Approval Number, making it easier for purchasers and installers to identify if a device is fully compliant with Australian electrical safety, Telecommunications and EMC regulations."

 

source:

 

https://www.compeng.com.au/c-tick-rcm-testing/

 

Sounds like Australia does very much have this "bs to contend with"...

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RSEAT S1 / VPC T50 CM2 + 300mm extension + Realsimulator F18 CGRH / VPC WarBRD + TM Warthog grip / WinWing F/A-18 Super Taurus / 4x TM Cougar MFD / TM TPR / HP Reverb G2

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Are you seriously saying, there are no certifications for electronic devices, wich ensure a minimum level of safety and environmental protection in AUS? Realy?

 

Now i'm confused, i always thought that Australia is a top tier developed country, as most developed countries have safety certifications for electronic devices. The USA do have their FCC mark, so does Kanada, Taiwan has BSMI, South-Korea has the KC mark and Russia has the GOST-R certificate. The WW throttle does not have any of those certifications, at least mine does not even have markings for voltage etc.. What do you think? This sounds very much as if the WW devices are illegal in each of those countries, doesen't it? Read it up, this is easy to find with google.

 

And btw. hope you got they irony, because google came up with following:

 

"On March 1st 2016 Australia introduced a new single compliance mark for Electrical Safety and EMC approvals. The new single compliance mark is called the Regulatory Compliance Mark, or RCM mark. It replaces the C-Tick, A-Tick and Unique Electrical Safety Approval Number, making it easier for purchasers and installers to identify if a device is fully compliant with Australian electrical safety, Telecommunications and EMC regulations."

 

source:

 

https://www.compeng.com.au/c-tick-rcm-testing/

 

Sounds like Australia does very much have this "bs to contend with"...

 

 

 

That is for importers who onsell. Not applicable for individuals who import for their own use. Oh and mate, get off your high horse. These are extremely low powered USB based devices, not 240v mains gear. And yes we do have compliance regulations over here, but nothing like the BS you lot have to go through!

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And yes we do have compliance regulations over here, but nothing like the BS you lot have to go through!

 

Believe it or not, but I'm very glad we have to "go through this BS" here and instead don't have to worry about poor quality and potentially hazardous devices.

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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

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