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CPU overclock - is it truely worth it for DCS?


sirrah

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I have a 8600K which turbos to 4.3, is it really worth any performance gain by OC to say 4.8 for example?

 

Yes, absolutely.

Had a 6600K for months here a few years back that overclocked to 4.6Ghz effortlessly, and it made quite a difference then for games/sims, inclusively DCS (at the time we were at 1.5X release).

AFAIK, the 8600K is a bit better than that and should overclock up to ~4.9Ghz, so I can only imagine even more gains.

 

If you have a decent (Z370) motherboard and capable cooling, not overclocking that processor is not taking advantage of its capabilities.

Perhaps you won't notice that much increase in maximum FPS, but you'll definitely notice improvements in minimum FPS.


Edited by LucShep

CGTC Caucasus retexture mod  |  A-10A cockpit retexture mod  |  Shadows reduced impact mod  |  DCS 2.5.6  (the best version for performance, VR or 2D)

DCS terrain modules_July23_27pc_ns.pngDCS aircraft modules_July23_27pc_ns.png  aka Luke Marqs; call sign "Ducko" =

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After reading all replies I've decided to give overclocking another go.

 

I might not have done it right last time. I increased the clock speed, but left core voltage to auto (which by now I know, will probably increase the voltage too much and cause unnessecary heat)

 

Can anyone please advise me at what core voltage I should start with my 8700k?

 

When I switch from auto to fixed In the bios screen, I need to manually set the voltage (obviously), but I'm not sure at what voltage to start. My idea is to do it with small increments and check the results after each increase.. So maybe start at 4.0GHz and move up from there with 100MHz at the time.


Edited by sirrah

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

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After reading all replies I've decided to give overclocking another go.

 

I might not have done it right last time. I increased the clock speed, but left core voltage to auto (which by now I know, will probably increase the voltage too much and cause unnessecary heat)

 

Can anyone please advise me at what core voltage I should start with my 8700k?

 

When I switch from auto to fixed In the bios screen, I need to manually set the voltage (obviously), but I'm not sure at what voltage to start. My idea is to do it with small increments and check the results after each increase.. So maybe start at 4.0GHz and move up from there with 100MHz at the time.

 

Sirrah, what kind of CPU cooler do you have? When I overclocked my 8700 to 5.1GHz, I delid'ed it using RocketCool tools. Took all of 45 minutes or less. It was beyond easy and the temperature drop was very noticeable.

 

For me, it made a big difference as I only play in VR. And every FPS helps with VR.

 

As I recall, I kept mine at Adaptive, and Vcore of 1.35 or less. At the time, it was delid'ed and had an AIO cooler. But on my new 10700K, I just went with Noctua tower cooler.

hsb

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i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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It's been about a year since I last did it, and it was actually for a different game, but there is a way to set up Performance Monitor such that is shows the specific process threads in terms of CPU usage, rather than the CPU's in terms of thread usage.

 

This is very illuminating since Windows tends to cycle heavy threads between the cores, to spread the thermal load out, but that makes it look like each core is sharing the processing load, when it could easily be one or two really heavy threads.

 

I want to say this was what I was starting from, but it would take some fiddling to get it laid flat: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-use-performance-monitor-windows-10

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Thanks for all the kind help guys!

 

I have a Gelid Solutions Phantom Black cooler (a pretty basic 7 heat pipes cooler) and despite the advise, I don't feel ready/confident to delid :P

 

Considering I might not have the best cooling, I'll just take it step by step and monitor the results.

 

So just to make sure, would 1.25V and 4.1GHz be a good starting point for my 8700k? And slowly move up from there?

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

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Thanks for all the kind help guys!

 

I have a Gelid Solutions Phantom Black cooler (a pretty basic 7 heat pipes cooler) and despite the advise, I don't feel ready/confident to delid :P

 

Considering I might not have the best cooling, I'll just take it step by step and monitor the results.

 

So just to make sure, would 1.25V and 4.1GHz be a good starting point for my 8700k? And slowly move up from there?

 

IMO, it sounds like a 4.7Ghz "all core" OC is ideal in your case.

 

Check this easy guide (by one of my fav tech tubers):

 

Edit: it's on an MSI motherboard so some settings may have different names in Asrock equivalents, but same things apply nonetheless. :)


Edited by LucShep

CGTC Caucasus retexture mod  |  A-10A cockpit retexture mod  |  Shadows reduced impact mod  |  DCS 2.5.6  (the best version for performance, VR or 2D)

DCS terrain modules_July23_27pc_ns.pngDCS aircraft modules_July23_27pc_ns.png  aka Luke Marqs; call sign "Ducko" =

Spoiler

Win10 Pro x64 | Intel i7 12700K (@5.1/5.0p + 3.9e) | 64GB DDR4 @3466 CL16 (Crucial Ballistix) | RTX 3090 24GB EVGA FTW3 Ultra | 2TB NVMe (MP600 Pro XT) + 500GB SSD (WD Blue) + 3TB HDD (Toshiba P300) + 1TB HDD (WD Blue) | Corsair RMX 850W | Asus Z690 TUF+ D4 | TR PA120SE | Fractal Meshify C | M-Audio USB + Sennheiser HD-599SE | 7x USB 3.0 Hub | 50'' 4K Philips 7608/12 UHD TV (+Head Tracking) | HP Reverb G1 Pro (VR) | TM Warthog + Logitech X56 

 

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Thanks for all the kind help guys!

 

I have a Gelid Solutions Phantom Black cooler (a pretty basic 7 heat pipes cooler) and despite the advise, I don't feel ready/confident to delid :P

 

Considering I might not have the best cooling, I'll just take it step by step and monitor the results.

 

So just to make sure, would 1.25V and 4.1GHz be a good starting point for my 8700k? And slowly move up from there?

 

From what I can see in Userbenchmark.com, you should be shooting for 4.7-4.8 aircooled.

Don't increase voltage first. Increase clock speed first and when you encounter instability, then increase voltage gradually.

As you said, increase slowly. I prefer to do it over several days. Not hours.

Get CPU-Z

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From what I can see in Userbenchmark.com, you should be shooting for 4.7-4.8 aircooled.

Don't increase voltage first. Increase clock speed first and when you encounter instability, then increase voltage gradually.

As you said, increase slowly. I prefer to do it over several days. Not hours.

Get CPU-Z

 

Hehe well that's the thing. I need to set a fixed initial voltage, but I don't know what the standard default voltage is. When I switch from auto to fixed, the value field is empty. So I'm not sure at what voltage to start.

 

I do have CPU-Z and checked the voltage there. But it's constantly changing (because it's on auto), so I can't get a proper readout.

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

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Hehe well that's the thing. I need to set a fixed initial voltage, but I don't know what the standard default voltage is. When I switch from auto to fixed, the value field is empty. So I'm not sure at what voltage to start.

 

I do have CPU-Z and checked the voltage there. But it's constantly changing (because it's on auto), so I can't get a proper readout.

 

People reporting reaching 4.7GHz at 1.24v. I'd start at around 1.2v.

 

Again it all depends. Look up other people's OC results with your MB and CPU.

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Hehe well that's the thing. I need to set a fixed initial voltage...

 

I'd give the Intel XTU utility a try. You can set the overclock per core in a much more user friendly interface than most BIOS.

 

You really can't go wrong with 1.35v ADAPTIVE. In adaptive the chip will only draw as much voltage as necessary and not when idling. You are correct in that you want to turn off any kind of auto voltage or multicore enhancement as these tend to overvolt by default to keep stability.

 

And for DCS you want to push one core as far as you can. Trying to overclock all 6 of your cores will just require more voltage/current/heat. There's not benefit to gaming or DCS from an all core overclock. That really only helps get higher synthetic benchmark scores.

 

These skills can pay dividends besides gaming as well. I've read positive reports in the forums of people undervolting their laptops and upgrading thermal paste. By using the minimum voltage necessary for stable day to day computing tasks they minimize heat and power draw which extends battery time.

 

 

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I'd give the Intel XTU utility a try. You can set the overclock per core in a much more user friendly interface than most BIOS.

 

You really can't go wrong with 1.35v ADAPTIVE. In adaptive the chip will only draw as much voltage as necessary and not when idling. You are correct in that you want to turn off any kind of auto voltage or multicore enhancement as these tend to overvolt by default to keep stability.

 

And for DCS you want to push one core as far as you can. Trying to overclock all 6 of your cores will just require more voltage/current/heat. There's not benefit to gaming or DCS from an all core overclock. That really only helps get higher synthetic benchmark scores.

 

These skills can pay dividends besides gaming as well. I've read positive reports in the forums of people undervolting their laptops and upgrading thermal paste. By using the minimum voltage necessary for stable day to day computing tasks they minimize heat and power draw which extends battery time.

 

That sounds logical indeed. But how do I know which of the cores I should overclock? Does DCS automatically choose to use the core with the highest speed?

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

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That sounds logical indeed. But how do I know which of the cores I should overclock? Does DCS automatically choose to use the core with the highest speed?

 

Short answer yes, although it's more complicated of course.

 

Intel's Turboboost feature in general picks the best core and allocates demanding applications to that core. The current Windows scheduler does have a feature that hops demanding apps from core to core as a way to prevent hot spots on the chip. For day to day DCS at 60fps 2D you might not notice a difference in performance from this process happening. Although I've never specifically tested in CPU stress/bound scenarios like lot of shadows and AI objects.

 

I've set up my gaming overclocks to work in conjunction with a utility called Process Lasso which makes it convenient to set up CPU power profiles for specific games/apps. You can prioritize CPU cycles and memory very easily, turn off hyperthreading, restrict cores, etc.

 

This is all for just CPU btw. :)

 

For GPU I recommend a utility called MSI Afterburner. It's agnostic to different brand cards and is free. I also do things like upgrade the thermal paste and TIM on my GPUs when I switch them to waterblocks.

 

For RAM, I'm working with a kit that was binned at 3200MHz but was able to push to 3600MHz very easily. I still need to try and lower the latency timings.

 

 

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People reporting reaching 4.7GHz at 1.24v. I'd start at around 1.2v.

 

Again it all depends. Look up other people's OC results with your MB and CPU.

 

Have to take into account Load Line Calibration (LLC) Lower stable voltages are then possible if this is changed but can be more risky to CPU degradation. Adjusting this depends on Mobo, check some youtube videos for research....

 

LLC changes will mean that some people may be reporting higher overclocks at lower voltages, but you or they have no idea how long that will last if its not "safe"

 

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The reason why people give their OC information is the same as why some drive fat cars or wear extremely expensive watches etc. - namely, showing off. :music_whistling:

 

Well, cranking my 3570k from 3.4 (single/dual core boost rate of 3.8 never applied with DCS running) to 4.4 almost doubled my framerate. That said, I'm not boasting it in my sig though icon_redface.gif

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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Sorry, but I don't get it.

You OC your system in order to get more juice out of your system because replacing is with a better system is expensive...but...in doing so you're shortening your system's life which will force you to spend the same money you couldn't or more if the damage is extensive.

And...all that for a few frames in a software that is as resources hungry as the half horse?

 

I fly a few sims and none of them come even close to the DCS demands

So...with the option of putting in a few grands or ruining my system I rather fly less DCS or accept lower capabilities when flying DCS.

Mind you...I fly the F-16 and that module is notorious for its demands on the system.

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Sorry, but I don't get it.

You OC your system in order to get more juice out of your system because replacing is with a better system is expensive...but...in doing so you're shortening your system's life which will force you to spend the same money you couldn't or more if the damage is extensive.

And...all that for a few frames in a software that is as resources hungry as the half horse?

 

I fly a few sims and none of them come even close to the DCS demands

So...with the option of putting in a few grands or ruining my system I rather fly less DCS or accept lower capabilities when flying DCS.

Mind you...I fly the F-16 and that module is notorious for its demands on the system.

 

You're assuming that the shortening of life is dramatic. If people were having their systems go that quickly - I doubt overclocking would be so popular. I think in most cases, the CPU outlives it's usefulness and people upgrade well before the CPU goes anyway. In the end, different people, different priorities, different focus I guess.... Hey... some people here might even have a gaming rig solely for running DCS with no other games on it simply because they enjoy it that much... not that I would admit to that with the wife being online. :smilewink:

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Sorry, but I don't get it.

You OC your system in order to get more juice out of your system because replacing is with a better system is expensive...but...in doing so you're shortening your system's life which will force you to spend the same money you couldn't or more if the damage is extensive.

And...all that for a few frames in a software that is as resources hungry as the half horse?

 

I fly a few sims and none of them come even close to the DCS demands

So...with the option of putting in a few grands or ruining my system I rather fly less DCS or accept lower capabilities when flying DCS.

Mind you...I fly the F-16 and that module is notorious for its demands on the system.

 

 

 

 

I would not assume that you are shortening a system's life with every overclock. Some will draw less current and will actually give a longer life. Some will absolutely reduce life expectancy but still provide a far greater lifespan than you'd ever need. Like getting nine years and eight months instead of ten years. Some can and will degrade a CPU in months, days, minutes or seconds. Learn the limits of your CPU through research.

 

 

 

RAM timings are also worth tweaking for some systems, but that's something you can learn later if you need it.

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Here is the thing,

I agree that OC done by an expert can benefit the system rather than shorten its life...but...most are just laymen who just try to bump up systems that shouldn't be OC or OC to the extent that it ruins them or lessen their performance.

Chips, motherboards and power supplies are optimized (kind of ;) ) to work best within certain parameters within a certain interaction.

When you try to take such a system beyond what it was built for you should just get hold of a different system that was built for that higher load/ capacity/ strain.

If you don't and unless you are an expert it shall be very similar to taking a car and modifying it for racing with a drilled engine.

It shall be able to perform better for a short while but since it was not built for that higher stress it just shall not hold it together for too long.

Are power cars fun?

Hell yes!

But most are short lived if pushed hard and DCS pushes real hard.

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Here is the thing,

I agree that OC done by an expert can benefit the system rather than shorten its life...but...most are just laymen who just try to bump up systems that shouldn't be OC or OC to the extent that it ruins them or lessen their performance.

Chips, motherboards and power supplies are optimized (kind of ;) ) to work best within certain parameters within a certain interaction.

When you try to take such a system beyond what it was built for you should just get hold of a different system that was built for that higher load/ capacity/ strain.

If you don't and unless you are an expert it shall be very similar to taking a car and modifying it for racing with a drilled engine.

It shall be able to perform better for a short while but since it was not built for that higher stress it just shall not hold it together for too long.

Are power cars fun?

Hell yes!

But most are short lived if pushed hard and DCS pushes real hard.

 

I actually don't agree with that assessment. CPU is different than cars that pushing doesn't necessarily lead to shorter lifespan. Life of CPU depends strictly on the CPU temp.

 

Which means someone who never overclocks but never clean dust off the stock fans would have shorter CPU life than someone who overclocks but keeps it cool. People who overclocks are much more aware of the cooling.

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I would suggest reading up on overclocking on forums dedicated to the practice rather than the DCS forums.

 

Seems there is much you're lacking about how turbo boost functions and the dos and don'ts of adjusting vcore voltage.

 

8700K is stock 3.7Ghz, it boosts to 4.3Ghz when multiple cores are in use, and boosts 1 or 2 cores to 4.7Ghz when applications aren't using more than that out of the box. That being said, even single threaded apps like DCS can cause it to boost to 4.3Ghz instead of opting for the 1 or 2 cores at 4.7Ghz.

 

8700K's are pretty much guaranteed to find a stable OC up to 4.9ghz on all cores with 1.3vcore or less. But toying with voltage takes some knowledge, you never want to go too high, and you really want to find a comfy spot around 85C max via hours of stress testing under full load, which also should let oyu know if you're system is stable. Like..no hangs, and no crashes during stress testing. 90C isn't going to kill your cpu, neither will 95C, but it's high enough that I'd want to back off the voltage and/or cpu frequency. You want to make sure you have sufficient cooling, I have a dual fan radiator AIO liquid cooling unit that keeps my cpu cool enough to feel comfortable.

 

I'm @ 4.9Ghz currently at around 1.275vcore.. but YMMV, one person's settings and achievable clock speeds aren't going to work for everyone else.

 

Pushing 5Ghz requires a hefty vcore bump on my machine and causes quite a bit of heat, so I backed it down to 4.9Ghz, which an 8700k SHOULD achieve comfortably. Others got a lot more lucky with the silicon lottery.

 

You also want to disable the avx offset when overclocking to maintain your clock frequency.

 

It's honestly pretty easy to OC the 8700k and find a stable 4.9Ghz.. but there are better places to research how to do so, and finding the lowest voltage to accomplish it is a task of reducing vcore in increments of .005 to .015. And it's best if your motherboard has a bios reset button in case you do something silly and need to reset to defaults to even get your board to post.

 

I mean no offense to the DCS community but you're going to get a lot of varied responses, some from people who have a better understanding than others, and some who don't.


Edited by Headwarp
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Win 11 Pro, z790 i9 13900k, RTX 4090 , 64GB DDR 6400GB, OS and DCS are on separate pci-e 4.0 drives 

Sim hardware - VKB MCG Ultimate with 200mm extension, Virpil T-50CM3 Dual throttles.   Blackhog B-explorer (A), TM Cougar MFD's (two), MFG Crosswinds with dampener.   Obutto R3volution gaming pit.  

 

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I actually don't agree with that assessment. CPU is different than cars that pushing doesn't necessarily lead to shorter lifespan. Life of CPU depends strictly on the CPU temp.

 

Which means someone who never overclocks but never clean dust off the stock fans would have shorter CPU life than someone who overclocks but keeps it cool. People who overclocks are much more aware of the cooling.

 

Nahh, not quite, higher voltages degrade the gates and trace routes faster. With higher temps all that happens is that resistance grows and such the above effect becomes even worse.

You could cool a CPU to -250°C, apply extreme voltages ( while WAY sub zero ) and still wear out the CPU, the cooling would not fix that issue all the way.

 

Best is to balance heat/voltage to a safe level on either end.

 

That's how I understand this topic.

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Nahh, not quite, higher voltages degrade the gates and trace routes faster. With higher temps all that happens is that resistance grows and such the above effect becomes even worse.

You could cool a CPU to -250°C, apply extreme voltages ( while WAY sub zero ) and still wear out the CPU, the cooling would not fix that issue all the way.

 

Best is to balance heat/voltage to a safe level on either end.

 

That's how I understand this topic.

 

Technically yes but in practice, no. First of all, you can overclock quite a bit without raising voltage. I went from 4.0GHz to 4.7GHz safely without raising voltage. Second, even if you had to raise the voltage, the degradation is so minute that it's insignificant. Especially with today's CPU's that throttles voltage based on usage. Of course I wasn't referring to extreme overclocking with liquid nitrogen but more of general overclocking.

 

Besides, the point I was trying to make was that regular maintenance of the hardware effects your component life more than overclocking. And the people who tweak usually take care of their hardware better.

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Here is the thing,

I agree that OC done by an expert can benefit the system rather than shorten its life...but...most are just laymen who just try to bump up systems that shouldn't be OC or OC to the extent that it ruins them or lessen their performance.

Chips, motherboards and power supplies are optimized (kind of ;) ) to work best within certain parameters within a certain interaction.

When you try to take such a system beyond what it was built for you should just get hold of a different system that was built for that higher load/ capacity/ strain.

If you don't and unless you are an expert it shall be very similar to taking a car and modifying it for racing with a drilled engine.

It shall be able to perform better for a short while but since it was not built for that higher stress it just shall not hold it together for too long.

Are power cars fun?

Hell yes!

But most are short lived if pushed hard and DCS pushes real hard.

 

 

I had a 4770k from feb 2014 until dec 2019. It was running at 4.3ghz since day 1. I sold it to a person I know. He's still running it. What I conclude is that yes, it must shorten the cpu's life, but they will still last until at least when they become obsolete and they probably keep going for long. Heck, I have a 2010 macbook pro running Win7 bootcamp. It's still running hot like it always was.

Banned by cunts.

 

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