Su-30MKK Full fid or FC3 version?

[МаксиM]

The Su-30 is a two-seater aircraft, and you need to somehow come up with the implementation of the co-pilot in the conditions of the FC3 version, but it would be great if there was a Su30

[Skysurfer]

1 hour ago, МаксиM said:

The Su-30 is a two-seater aircraft, and you need to somehow come up with the implementation of the co-pilot in the conditions of the FC3 version, but it would be great if there was a Su30

Everything can be done from the front seat.

[МаксиM]

16 minutes ago, Skysurfer said:

Everything can be done from the front seat.

then what's the point of su30 in DCS?

Yes, of course, the avionics are better than those of the su27 or su33, but it does not bring anything fundamentally new, and a simplified plane with a multi-crew would help newcomers

Edited January 30, 2021 by МаксиM

[Skysurfer]

14 minutes ago, МаксиM said:

then what's the point of su30 in DCS?

Yes, of course, the avionics are better than those of the su27 or su33, but it does not bring anything fundamentally new, and a simplified plane with a multi-crew would help newcomers

 

 

Well, those are like the only export Flanker variants. RuAF versions aren't happening. It could also still have multicrew - but there simply isn't a requirement for an AI WSO.

[Hoarfrost]

ED has not been able to make p27er, p77 for three years. Some bugs are 10 years old. so if the guys make a normal p77 together with the Su 30, it will be faster.

[Fanki 17]

Am 30.1.2021 um 02:28 schrieb МаксиM:

then what's the point of su30 in DCS?

Yes, of course, the avionics are better than those of the su27 or su33, but it does not bring anything fundamentally new, and a simplified plane with a multi-crew would help newcomers

 

Actually some of the Su33 in the Russian Navy had an modernisation so there are about the same level as a Su30SM.

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

On 1/29/2021 at 8:28 PM, МаксиM said:

then what's the point of su30 in DCS?

Yes, of course, the avionics are better than those of the su27 or su33, but it does not bring anything fundamentally new, and a simplified plane with a multi-crew would help newcomers

 

The avionics can not be discounted, the Sukhoi depends a lot on the Kinematics of the R-27ER, and being able to shoot farther and hold a better lock would make it stronger,

 

I think that the biggest thing it brings, is multirole capability in a fast mover

 

Being able to bring BVR missiles Anti Radiation missiles Bombs rockets and precision guided munitions all in one sortie on a sukhoi would be a huge leap forward

 

 

[TotenDead]

01.02.2021 в 17:12, Fanki 17 сказал:

Actually some of the Su33 in the Russian Navy had an modernisation so there are about the same level as a Su30SM.

If some = none then yea

[Northstar98]

On 1/21/2021 at 6:19 AM, Mike_Romeo said:

Su-30 is still in the race guys

 

I don't wanna piss on anyone's chips but "all of the documents are not enough for a FF plane yet" sounds like it's still pretty unlikely, even if we account for the "yet".

[PLAAF]

good to know Su-30 is still on the table
Is that Deka's discord? Does anyone have a link?

Edited February 5, 2021 by PLAAF

[jojyrocks]

On 2/3/2021 at 11:08 PM, Northstar98 said:

 

I don't wanna piss on anyone's chips but "all of the documents are not enough for a FF plane yet" sounds like it's still pretty unlikely, even if we account for the "yet".

Looks to me, then there is nothing pretty much to model.

 

I can understand the unavailability of documents for Su-30MKK....its still very much in service. But if done, We'll finally get a PROPER Redforce jet to tango with NATO folks/BLUEFORCE. Also good sales.

 

Documents not there for J-8 and Q-5?! Those planes are almost fully retired. These planes also fit pretty good with Deka saying they needed a break from planes with BIG MFD.

 

Don't really care about the H-6...complicated slow bomber...but that is just me....

[Northstar98]

On 2/5/2021 at 8:45 PM, jojyrocks said:

Looks to me, then there is nothing pretty much to model.

 

I can understand the unavailability of documents for Su-30MKK....its still very much in service. But if done, We'll finally get a PROPER Redforce jet to tango with NATO folks/BLUEFORCE. Also good sales.

Well ED shot themselves in the foot IMO when they made post 2000s BLUFOR knowing peer REDFOR was basically next to impossible or very unlikely at least.

It would've been better to stick to a decade they knew they could do peer aircraft, maps and assets; get that fleshed out then move onto the next.

Quote

Documents not there for J-8 and Q-5?! Those planes are almost fully retired.

Some operators and manufacturers are like that, look at the UK and Dassault (not to mention Russia).

Quote

Don't really care about the H-6...complicated slow bomber...but that is just me....

I can understand the appeal for an AI aircraft but would much prefer the Tu-16K-10-26 (Badger C, dedicated maritime strike) or Tu-16KSR-2-5-11 (badger G, combined Badger A (pure dumb bomber + missile capability of the C, minus the C's RADAR); perfect for the Tomcat, and perfect for a naval Phantom if we ever get one.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting, spelling

[Mike_Romeo]

14 hours ago, PLAAF said:

Is that Deka's discord? Does anyone have a link?

 

Its from the ED Discord. https://discord.com/channels/542985647502393346/543014378643914752/801696455655948289

Edited February 5, 2021 by Mike_Romeo

[jojyrocks]

6 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

 

Well ED shot themselves in the foot IMO when they made post 2000s BLUFOR knowing peer REDFOR was basically next to impossible or very unlikely at least.

 

It would've been better to stick to a decade they knew they could do peer aircraft, maps and assets; get that flushed out then move onto the next. 

 

 

Some operators and manufacturers are like that, look at the UK and Dassault (not to mention Russia).

 

 

I can understand the appeal for an AI aircraft but would much prefer the Tu-16K-10-26 (Badger C, dedicated maritime strike) or Tu-16KSR-2-5-11 (badger G, combined Badger A (pure dumb bomber + missile capability of the C, minus the C's RADAR); perfect for the Tomcat, and perfect for a naval Phantom if we ever get one.

 

So pretty much...they should've maybe stuck with cold war era planes than the best modern blueforce. But, the thing is, most here like the most modern they can get their hands on. ED has almost fully run out of modern planes, the other modern planes require permission. Currently Redforce and Blueforce are not balanced. When the Eurofighter joins from TrueGrit, the Redforce would be nothing more than target practice.

 

Now despite them saying they do not intend to do Century series planes. It is pretty apparent that they'd focus more on game engine and maybe AI 3D model plus features assets than modules. There is still PLENTY of cold war era planes left. I think the Mig 29A is the furthest they can get with Redforce, rest would depend on politics and which third party company gets the favoured deal.

 

I'd rather see the H-6 Bomber as an AI asset than a full module. Its too niche plane and very much a strategic bomber for the PLAAF and yes...very complicated to develop those along with crew of having 4 and lots and lots of switches and systems to model. Only super purist would buy as most actually PREFER fast combat jets that either has secondary air to air and air to ground ability.

 

The most I can see DEKA can develop in a believable sense is, Q-5 and the J-8 than the Su-30MKK. If there are no docs to these then I do not know what they CAN develop (there aren't other Chinese planes much) unless it some J-7 jet and even if it is that, they'd have to make sure it is different from the Mig-21bis which we already have. There would not be much sales if they went to create something like J-7 early version, Copy of Mig-19 and Mig-17 (J-6 and J-5).

 

They could also TRY and maybe get permission for Su-30K for which I believe is not so modernized as the MKK, but could still carry the modern Active radar missiles.

 

 

 

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

2 hours ago, jojyrocks said:

 

So pretty much...they should've maybe stuck with cold war era planes than the best modern blueforce. But, the thing is, most here like the most modern they can get their hands on. ED has almost fully run out of modern planes, the other modern planes require permission. Currently Redforce and Blueforce are not balanced. When the Eurofighter joins from TrueGrit, the Redforce would be nothing more than target practice.

 

Now despite them saying they do not intend to do Century series planes. It is pretty apparent that they'd focus more on game engine and maybe AI 3D model plus features assets than modules. There is still PLENTY of cold war era planes left. I think the Mig 29A is the furthest they can get with Redforce, rest would depend on politics and which third party company gets the favoured deal.

 

I'd rather see the H-6 Bomber as an AI asset than a full module. Its too niche plane and very much a strategic bomber for the PLAAF and yes...very complicated to develop those along with crew of having 4 and lots and lots of switches and systems to model. Only super purist would buy as most actually PREFER fast combat jets that either has secondary air to air and air to ground ability.

 

The most I can see DEKA can develop in a believable sense is, Q-5 and the J-8 than the Su-30MKK. If there are no docs to these then I do not know what they CAN develop (there aren't other Chinese planes much) unless it some J-7 jet and even if it is that, they'd have to make sure it is different from the Mig-21bis which we already have. There would not be much sales if they went to create something like J-7 early version, Copy of Mig-19 and Mig-17 (J-6 and J-5).

 

They could also TRY and maybe get permission for Su-30K for which I believe is not so modernized as the MKK, but could still carry the modern Active radar missiles.

 

 

 

At that point they could just try and do a Su-27SK/J-11A FF

Wouldn't need to find info about the second seat

[jojyrocks]

25 minutes ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

At that point they could just try and do a Su-27SK/J-11A FF

Wouldn't need to find info about the second seat

 

 

Yeah...that too, but Su-30 series still had more of that multi role fit to tango with the modern jets. Most of Su-27SK and J-11A have bare A2G ability and SK still carried those SARH missiles that is a big disadvantage when fighting against AIM 120 equipped blueforce.

 

Realistically, one can only hope Su-27SK and J-11A to be worked on and yes, the lack of backseater does reduce workload on modeling that. But still, the Su-30M or K is a downgrade from the MKK...It does have much better weapons arrangement. Also good on sales.

 

 

 

 

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

34 minutes ago, jojyrocks said:

 

 

Yeah...that too, but Su-30 series still had more of that multi role fit to tango with the modern jets. Most of Su-27SK and J-11A have bare A2G ability and SK still carried those SARH missiles that is a big disadvantage when fighting against AIM 120 equipped blueforce.

 

Realistically, one can only hope Su-27SK and J-11A to be worked on and yes, the lack of backseater does reduce workload on modeling that. But still, the Su-30M or K is a downgrade from the MKK...It does have much better weapons arrangement. Also good on sales.

 

 

 

 

The Su-30(27Pu/30K), has no new A2G weapons over a Su-27S.

 

It was originally going to be a PVO Flanker with air to air refueling capabilities and the ability to work as a flying DL relay station for other Su-27P and MiG-31s in the air.

 

The Su-27SK which is essentially our J-11 can use the RVV AE. Its why I think its the most reasonable choice if we can't get a Su-30MKK.

 

I could see though why some people are interested in 2 seat planes like the Su-30K or Su-27UBK. Not me personally, its a mark against the plane for me. I can't share my toys.

[Northstar98]

On 2/6/2021 at 4:11 AM, jojyrocks said:

So pretty much...they should've maybe stuck with cold war era planes than the best modern blueforce.

Well, I mean, I don't care which decade they pick, I just wish they would pick one and stick with it, get it fleshed out and then move on.

Quote

But, the thing is, most here like the most modern they can get their hands on.

It seems to be that way, at least they're probably more vocal about it, though the same could be said for Cold War people. But it does create this exact problem.

Quote

ED has almost fully run out of modern planes, the other modern planes require permission. Currently Redforce and Blueforce are not balanced. When the Eurofighter joins from TrueGrit, the Redforce would be nothing more than target practice.

Yeah, they are on the precipice of running out of post 2000s US/BLUFOR aircraft, the only one missing is the F-15C, maybe a Blackhawk/Seahawk (though the latter requires more ASW work).

For me it's not so much about balance - one side is probably going to have some advantage in some aspect whichever way you look at it. It's more about having stuff fighting their peer contemporaries and building missions that are consistent and coherent. Rather than having to fudge stuff together from wildly different eras.

Quote

Now despite them saying they do not intend to do Century series planes. It is pretty apparent that they'd focus more on game engine and maybe AI 3D model plus features assets than modules. There is still PLENTY of cold war era planes left. I think the Mig 29A is the furthest they can get with Redforce, rest would depend on politics and which third party company gets the favoured deal.

They could even do early variants of their current aircraft, preferably recycling as much as possible, which will save on the workload - kinda like what they did with the A-10C II just in the other way around, Heatblur are doing a similar thing with their Tomcat, Aerges is providing a fairly comprehensive set of Spanish Mirage F1s. An F-16CG Block 40 (pre CCIP), would be largely copy and paste our F-16C, with a few changes to the cockpit. The most difficult thing would be LANTIRN, the TGP of which is already present on the Tomcat. Just as an example.

Personally I'd start with aircraft from the late Cold War (80s - early 90s), get that fleshed out, then go earlier (the Century series more fits with the early-to-mid Cold War; late 50s - 60s, though they do reach into the 70s).

The perfect US counterpart to the 9.12 MiG-29 is the F-16A Block 15, and they would've most likely fought each other over Germany if the Cold War had gone hot.

Quote

I'd rather see the H-6 Bomber as an AI asset than a full module. Its too niche plane and very much a strategic bomber for the PLAAF and yes...very complicated to develop those along with crew of having 4 and lots and lots of switches and systems to model. Only super purist would buy as most actually PREFER fast combat jets that either has secondary air to air and air to ground ability.

I agree, I think pure bombers should be AI assets for the time being, though some might be candidates for future modules (like the Canberra, which is like a jet powered mosquito, the US counterpart being the B-45 or their own Canberra (B-57B), and the REDFOR counterpart being the Il-28/Yak-28I).

Edited January 12, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting, spelling

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

It has given me the thought there could at some point later be a DPRK Assets pack, should Korea ever get added as a terrain

 

H5s would fit there

[jojyrocks]

46 minutes ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

The Su-30(27Pu/30K), has no new A2G weapons over a Su-27S.

 

It was originally going to be a PVO Flanker with air to air refueling capabilities and the ability to work as a flying DL relay station for other Su-27P and MiG-31s in the air.

 

The Su-27SK which is essentially our J-11 can use the RVV AE. Its why I think its the most reasonable choice if we can't get a Su-30MKK.

 

I could see though why some people are interested in 2 seat planes like the Su-30K or Su-27UBK. Not me personally, its a mark against the plane for me. I can't share my toys.

 

 

So...Su-27SK can use the R-77? Maybe I might have forgotten...what model of the FC3 Su-27 do we use? Is it the S version?

 

 

I did mention both M and K. Su-30M certainly can and has a good A2G weapon load. It is seen with A2G missiles. That is a plus. However, I am not sure if Su-30K having good A2G weapons like missiles etc..info on K is vague and most of the pics are rare, mostly from the Indian air force early inductions.

 

Well I guess the end point is, we all want is the ability to tango with SOME of the blueforce jets that has the FIRE and FORGET AIM 120. Well, whichever redforce jet has this ability then its very good...if we do ever manage to get it

 

 

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

The K would be identical to the base line Su-30.

The Su-27 in FC3 is an 80s Soviet S model it can't use the R77.

Won't comment on the 90s Su-30M you posted since I don't think Deka or ED will do tech demo/flying g laboratory planes and things tend to change given what customer they were trying to cater to.

[jojyrocks]

14 minutes ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

The K would be identical to the base line Su-30.

The Su-27 in FC3 is an 80s Soviet S model it can't use the R77.

Won't comment on the 90s Su-30M you posted since I don't think Deka or ED will do tech demo/flying g laboratory planes and things tend to change given what customer they were trying to cater to.

 

 

Ah...yes, my mistake. What about the MK...supposed commercial version of the M version that was on export. So since DEKA listed on the table here (on their pondering on which module to do) about the MKK...then is at least the MK possible to hope for?

 

Then again...realistic hope is only for the Chinese J-11 or the Su-27SK....workload is less...

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by jojyrocks

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

That was effectively just an early Su-30MKK

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

I'm curious, what information is lacking for Deka?

What parts of the manual incomplete? Given their comments in other sections they know about the N001VE

 

Is information on the L-150 Pastel lacking?

[F-2]

Their was an SU-35UB which is a MKK with Bars Radar and Canards if your looking to add upgrades. Never went into service but almost the same plane if your looking for options.