Very small icons in Radar and HSD

[Zohardv]

Hi All.

My radar screen shows very small icons for aircraft blips. Much smaller than the bullseye and waypoint symbols, for example. Also the font for target data is very tiny and unreadable. Is this a known issue? How can I address that?

 

Thanks

[Focha]

I am affraid that the symbology scale and resolution is realistic but because we are using a monitor, it looks small and unreadable. I tend to make some view points for the MFDs to quickly zoom in.

[Furiz]

Here is a video of the F16 cockpit, compare his knee size with the MFD, you'll notice its quite accurate, our problem is the monitor size.

 

 

[Rhinozherous]

Do you use the Thrustmaster Cougar MFD? They are quite exact in size to the real thing. Pretty small.

[nickos86]

The F-16 MFDs got around 4.2*4.2 inch (~10.7 cm) of usable area

https://www.astronautics.com/pdf/product_brochures/F-16_4-Inch_MFD.pdf

 

The A-10C got a 5*5 inch (12.7 cm) usable area (at the moment the easiest MFD to read in DCS)

https://www.scribd.com/document/320356499/A-10C-MFCD-Dimensions

 

The F/A-18C got 4.93" x 4.97" (~12.5 cm) usable area (number 2 in readability in DCS after the A10)

http://pdt-usa.com/DDI_2003.pdf

 

The size differences of the useable areas are quite small. If the readability of the MFDs was bad in RL as it in DCS right now - it would be a huge design flow. If the pilots could not read the LINK data, or radar data or HSD data - what would it be good for?

 

In DCS at the moment you can't read the MFDs without an intense zoom in with the TRACK IR or in VR... I have to extract the MFDs to an another screen in order to understand what's written there. That a huge problem for the sim.

It's seems that there is a big difference in the POV and the way the cockpit was modeled between A10/18/16. The "sunk" F16 MFDs cause the font being tiny and unreadable (maybe a scalability solution should be implemented).

 

ED - please address/comment to this issue.

The rest of community - what are you doing to be able to read the MFDs?

[Thunderchief2000]

 

ED - please address/comment to this issue.

The rest of community - what are you doing to be able to read the MFDs?

 

I fly in VR, so I move my head closer. unfortunately I'm not sure much can be done. Its intrinsic to an accurately 3D modelled cockpit. do you use TrackIR or some other form head tracking, if not I highly recommend it.

 

A much larger and higher resolution display would help I guess.

[falcon_120]

The F-16 MFDs got around 4.2*4.2 inch (~10.7 cm) of usable area

https://www.astronautics.com/pdf/product_brochures/F-16_4-Inch_MFD.pdf

 

The A-10C got a 5*5 inch (12.7 cm) usable area (at the moment the easiest MFD to read in DCS)

https://www.scribd.com/document/320356499/A-10C-MFCD-Dimensions

 

The F/A-18C got 4.93" x 4.97" (~12.5 cm) usable area (number 2 in readability in DCS after the A10)

http://pdt-usa.com/DDI_2003.pdf

 

The size differences of the useable areas are quite small. If the readability of the MFDs was bad in RL as it in DCS right now - it would be a huge design flow. If the pilots could not read the LINK data, or radar data or HSD data - what would it be good for?

 

In DCS at the moment you can't read the MFDs without an intense zoom in with the TRACK IR or in VR... I have to extract the MFDs to an another screen in order to understand what's written there. That a huge problem for the sim.

It's seems that there is a big difference in the POV and the way the cockpit was modeled between A10/18/16. The "sunk" F16 MFDs cause the font being tiny and unreadable (maybe a scalability solution should be implemented).

 

ED - please address/comment to this issue.

The rest of community - what are you doing to be able to read the MFDs?

 

You are forgetting they are readable in RL because: 1-The definition of our eyes is much better than current VR and monitors (in general) and 2-Pilot normally have at least above average visual acuity.

 

So yes, they can read the MFD, but i'm sure is more comfortable in a hornet than in a F16 given size and position.

 

And regarding how i do it, i play in VR exclusively and i have a HOTAS button for quick zoom in, so i just look at the MFD and press that button when i need it, bending myself towards the MFD also helps if i need to, it should be the exact same for trackir users.

Edited September 22, 2020 by falcon_120

[Furiz]

2-Pilot normally have at least above average visual acuity.

 

So yes, they can read the MFD, but i'm sure is more comfortable in a hornet than in a F16 given size and position.

 

 

Wrong,

 

they have just as normal eyesight as any of us, some wear glasses.

 

 

Its just that that the resolution of human eye cant be matched at the moment.

And if you plug it into a large 4k TV it would be much more readable.

 

 

Use the VR zoom to zoom into them when needed.

[Topo]

Beside the obvious resolution, there is the placement also...

in the 16 they are a bit far, aren't they?

I'm in VR too, and i move close to read.

[Zohardv]

First of all. I use a VR headset. I can easily read most pages of the MFD. In my opinion, there is a problem with the radar icon's scale. See attached screenshot.

 

Second, I have many hours in the viper's cockpit (not as pilot, unfortunately) and I can surely say that most comfortable and well designed. The MFDs are quite close and readable very easily.

[nickos86]

. The MFDs are quite close and readable very easily.

 

I've also heard this feedback from multiple real life F-16 pilots.

I think that for the sake of the game the scalability should be reviewed again by ED. There should be some king of a solution...

[Cupra]

If I put those on a screen fitting Thrustmaster MFD´s it is compelte useless. I have to move my head so much forward.. not fun at all :(

[nickos86]

Take a look at pictures taken at the F16V simulator from Athens Flying Week-2015

(pictures from Panos Valasis facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150407825179015&type=3 )

 

Notice the proportions between the 'A6' and the '25' of the altitude in the AAR page or the HSD page. It's actually readable there.

I've got Thrustmaster MFDs. If i put them in the same distance as they should be away from me i can still easily read the 'GAIN' or 'SUM' writings. Therefore i should be able to read the '25' as well...

[DrBackJack]

ED could implement a symbology scale option for the MFD's.

[falcon_120]

Wrong,

 

they have just as normal eyesight as any of us, some wear glasses.

 

 

Its just that that the resolution of human eye cant be matched at the moment.

And if you plug it into a large 4k TV it would be much more readable.

 

 

Use the VR zoom to zoom into them when needed.

Not in my country. Glasses are not allowed, neither corrective surgery like laser.

 

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[Cupra]

And if you plug it into a large 4k TV it would be much more readable.

 

 

Not really.. I use a 43" 4K sscreen 50cm away... it is not better readable unless I zoom the MFD to total screen size. SA goes away complete :(

[Harlikwin]

IDK, I fly in VR with a reverb, and while "not great" I can generally read the MFD's, but they could be much more clear.

[Zohardv]

IMHO the icons and fonts should be at least 120% bigger, for the sake of usability, even if it's not 100% realistic or accurate. Would be much appreciated.

[Cupra]

They have a lot of stuff in DCS that is not "relistic".. but gamer are not always with 120% visibility.. my eyes are old and not as good as they have been at 20... ;) If someone does not want to use it, he can stay small, but the option of making it a little bigger would be really nice.

[Zohardv]

Are there any intention to address this?

It's really frustrating and makes the radar almost impossible to use while in VR. I always need to lean forward so I could read the radar data.

[SkHiTech]

+1

VR Oculus Rift S here, same issues...please think about increase readibility of MFD for VR players, even if it's not 100% real, who cares, i'm not a 20y.o. real fighter pilot anyway eheh ;-)

 

Thank you

[fudabidu]

And this is exactly why one of my axes is always reserved for zooming.

[Ziptie]

+1

VR Oculus Rift S here, same issues...please think about increase readibility of MFD for VR players, even if it's not 100% real, who cares, i'm not a 20y.o. real fighter pilot anyway eheh ;-)

 

Thank you

 

Do you have VR zoom bound to anything? What about VR spy zoom? These are both a "must" in my opinion and I use them all the time. I do this, to try and keep from leaning forward - and now that I've started using my racing harness (have a combined race sim / flight sim setup) - my upper and lower body movement is much more limited, while still being able to rotate my head with normal movement.

 

I use VR zoom often for getting a clearer view of the MFD/DDI/AMPCD displays (across the A10C, F18C, F16C) and sometimes use the VR spy zoom when scanning a target area (ground or air). I have 20/13 corrected vision, so yes - we are all at a disadvantage over what we would be when seated in the real aircraft and attempting to interpret the displays. Such is the life when playing a game and being much more limited in scale - compared to real life.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[SkHiTech]

Unfortunately it's not just about the zoom issue, I have poor definition in Oculus Rift S compared to a full hd monitor and small things like fonts in the mfd are poorely rendered, I can't increase the pixel density (currently on 1.3) to solve this issue or I will get a tremendous drop of framerate. So I think today with the cost of a high-performance vr set (reverb and so on) and the consequent very high end pc the VR would be very difficult to use, for the masses the gear Oculus Rift-High end Pc would be the most common scenario, therefore I think an effort in mdf visualization improvement will result in help for many out there.

[Ziptie]

Unfortunately it's not just about the zoom issue, I have poor definition in Oculus Rift S compared to a full hd monitor and small things like fonts in the mfd are poorely rendered, I can't increase the pixel density (currently on 1.3) to solve this issue or I will get a tremendous drop of framerate. So I think today with the cost of a high-performance vr set (reverb and so on) and the consequent very high end pc the VR would be very difficult to use, for the masses the gear Oculus Rift-High end Pc would be the most common scenario, therefore I think an effort in mdf visualization improvement will result in help for many out there.

 

Yes it certainly would help to have a higher definition VR headset, but as you say the cost increases with that, as does the cost of the PC that you would need to run that higher quality headset.

 

That being said, I have a very underpowered GPU for what DCS has become - and use the original Oculus CV1 headset. Might help that I have 20/13 vision I guess, but I can still read the MFDs in the Viper and A10C, along with the DDIs in the Hornet. They aren't crisp, but still readable. Possibly just become used to it and able to decipher the text because of that. I can certainly say that after flying in DCS, the real world is much clearer and easier to see :lol:

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie