23-09-2020 Patch Feedback thread

[will-]

Horribly loud Jester Menu/RWR/Radar Alt ETC sound still excists for over 3 updates now.

 

Please make this a top priority because it makes the tomcat awfully unpleasant to fly with it trying to blow my eardrums out.

 

adjust the volumes in the plane.

[HunterICX]

adjust the volumes in the plane.

 

 

adjusting the volume knobs in the plane like that of the ICS don't affect the Jester Menu background noise when the menu is open. The sounds like that of the Jester Menu, RWR and Radar Alt. are compared to the other sounds in the pit very loud.

Edited September 25, 2020 by HunterICX

[IronMike]

adjusting the volume knobs in the plane like that of the ICS don't affect the Jester Menu background noise when the menu is open. The sounds like that of the Jester Menu, RWR and Radar Alt. are compared to the other sounds in the pit very loud.

 

 

 

 

Can you show us your sound settings, too, please? Thank you.

[Zooker]

What is TCS trim support?

[HunterICX]

Can you show us your sound settings, too, please? Thank you.

 

 

Here they are:

 

[Eldur]

Was the HUD recorder really an issue? I appreciate the attention to detail if real world drivers were removing it, but I barely notice it's there and I fly in VR full time.

 

That's the point. You won't really notice it that much in VR anyway, but on a screen it would obstruct quite a bit of the HUD image I'd guess. What bothers me now though, but that's clearly ED's fault there, is that I always see that friggen tooltip for the switchology, which is bad enough in other modules already. They really have to get that straight. Yesterday! I just wish they'd read the VR subforums... it's like a No Fly Zone for them as it seems. Bummer...

[IronMike]

Here they are:

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you, I see now. In general we recommend not using "hear like in helmet", in our opinion it is an option that should not exist in the first place. It cripples the sounds basically, cuts off a range, and thus more or less destroys the work of the sound artits. It throws all the fine tuning over board, too.

 

Instead I would turn the "helmet" slider down slightly, which will also lower the Jester volume and the radio calls from AI, which are too loud at 100% as well when not using "hear like in helmet". With that option on, there is nothing we can do to fix it, without unbalancing it for everyone else who doesnt use the option but the pure sounds as tuned by us. All in cockpit sounds, etc are already tuned to sound like in a cockpit. I can only say it again: we strongly recommend against using "hear like in helmet".

 

Apologies if this an unsatisfying answer.

[QuiGon]

What is TCS trim support?

Adjusting the TCS (Television Camera Set) line of sight to boresight.

[HunterICX]

Apologies if this an unsatisfying answer.

 

 

It's never an unsatisfying answer if it helps the issue, I'll get on working on turning of that feature, adjust the volume sliders of the helmet instead and see if I can find a balance so it won't blow my ear drums out :thumbup:

 

 

Thanks for looking into it and giving me something to work with.

[captain_dalan]

Possible memory leak. FPS is high (generally above 50) but periodically drops to bellow 20 for short periods of time, and then returns to normal. The dips don't last longer then a second.

 

Not sure if introduced with the current patch, as i didn't flew long enough previously. Happened to me on two occasions with the F-14. Generally after about 40-60 minutes of flying. First time during the AAR Caucasus mission, and the second time, during a home made BVR one-on-one mission. Plugged into the F-16 and F-18, to see if i can reproduce in those planes too. So far negative. Maybe i need to fly them for a longer period of time.

 

Oddly, swapping a plane seams to eliminate the stutters. Switched to the F-16 after the 2nd occurrence then back to the F-14. Everything went smoothly. No time to do further tests this evening.

 

All the flights were in SP.

 

Fiddling with graphics settings and erasing contents of the metashader or fxo folders. The issue didn't reappear.

 

On something completely unrelated, thanks for the new Sparrows! FOX 1 is fun again!!! :thumbup:

[RustBelt]

Thank you, I see now. In general we recommend not using "hear like in helmet", in our opinion it is an option that should not exist in the first place. It cripples the sounds basically, cuts off a range, and thus more or less destroys the work of the sound artits. It throws all the fine tuning over board, too.

 

Instead I would turn the "helmet" slider down slightly, which will also lower the Jester volume and the radio calls from AI, which are too loud at 100% as well when not using "hear like in helmet". With that option on, there is nothing we can do to fix it, without unbalancing it for everyone else who doesnt use the option but the pure sounds as tuned by us. All in cockpit sounds, etc are already tuned to sound like in a cockpit. I can only say it again: we strongly recommend against using "hear like in helmet".

 

Apologies if this an unsatisfying answer.

 

Sorry but no, the loud as heck switch noises and fake engine volume is NOT tuned to sound like being in the cockpit while flying. It's a cartoony exaggeration. The Radio, RWR, and Jester volume worked fine a few updates ago WITH "hear like in helmet" on.

[dssrtfx]

Is there a place to file bugs? Or just reply here?

I and my squadron mates flying the F-14 have Sparrows go dumb off the rails every time. If you've got a place I can throw some Tacviews, I can show this happening.

Happens with a PD-STT lock and launch as well as Pulse modes, either through ACM or through P-STT.

 

 

Ha found the bug report place, posting now.

Edited September 27, 2020 by dsrtfx

[LASooner]

Being able to remove the camera is neat; however, now in VR, the normal pointer cross changes to a larger green 'switch below' symbol which is a tad annoying. Perhaps make it an option rather than a in cockpit button?

 

I recommend they move the target to the base of it, so it doesn't do this in your FOV. I noticed this in VR head pointing as well, since you many times are looking right in that general area and having the cross switch to the green indicator is indeed annoying.

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by LASooner

[Uxi]

Instead I would turn the "helmet" slider down slightly, which will also lower the Jester volume and the radio calls from AI, which are too loud at 100% as well when not using "hear like in helmet"

 

Excellent tip. I knew something was bugging me but not what and this helped! Thanks!

 

Any graphical or keybind settings you'd recommend off the top of your head?

Edited September 27, 2020 by Uxi

[Uxi]

I recommend they move the target to the base of it, so it doesn't do this in your FOV. I noticed this in VR head pointing as well, since you many times are looking right in that general area and having the cross switch to the green indicator is indeed annoying.

 

 

Agreed. I tried this for a couple traps today. Honestly would rather have a keybind, as well since trying not to use the mouse anymore.

[draconus]

Sorry but no, the loud as heck switch noises and fake engine volume is NOT tuned to sound like being in the cockpit while flying. It's a cartoony exaggeration. The Radio, RWR, and Jester volume worked fine a few updates ago WITH "hear like in helmet" on.

 

I concur. I have always used the "hear like in helmet" feature because it's great simulation of what it says. It worked fine in other modules and it did in F-14 too before. Without the option it sounds like... without helmet and is unbearable. The switches are too loud and are not connected to the appropriate volume slider. With the option for helmet we should hear clearly the comms, audible warnings, RWR, Sidewinder tone (I might have missed sth) while cockpit switches, ECS, engines and external sounds should be muffled. All should be muffled when there is no el. power.

[Nobody Special]

The contacts on the free flight mission are all notching you, two of them are choppers. It takes significant maneuvering and radar work to get them on scope, I wouldnt read too much in to that. Try one of the BVR missions instead, see how that goes.

 

Don't the rotors provide a return at rather high doppler?

[HunterICX]

I concur. I have always used the "hear like in helmet" feature because it's great simulation of what it says. It worked fine in other modules and it did in F-14 too before. Without the option it sounds like... without helmet and is unbearable. The switches are too loud and are not connected to the appropriate volume slider. With the option for helmet we should hear clearly the comms, audible warnings, RWR, Sidewinder tone (I might have missed sth) while cockpit switches, ECS, engines and external sounds should be muffled. All should be muffled when there is no el. power.

 

 

It began when they added the feature to put Jester to headphones in the ''DCS 2.5.6.52196'' update from 15/07.

 

 

before that the ''Hear like in Helmet'' feature worked fine for me too in the Tomcat.

[Whiskey Greg]

At 10nm the cone is so thin, that it is better to switch to the pilot acquisition modes, even a small movement of your nose will put the target just outside of the radar's gimbals quickly, especially with a changing distance to target and no STT lock of course. If you were chasing the guy, it is possible the closure rate was too small for the radar to pick it up, which again makes the use of PAL, etc.. preferable.

 

We did an online test last week on the 104th server and some squadrons joined to fill it with numbers. Unfortunately - and that is not to say we dont believe some of you experience issues - for us everything worked perfectly. And I don't mean that as an overstatement, it literally worked down to the tee as expected, all of it. Understandably, this was the disappointing part. We finally wanted to see the Jester RWS bug for ourselves, the TWS-A issues, etc etc.. However in 3 hrs of online flying, everything worked as advertised. Solid locks, solid sanitization and sorting of targets, and yes expected ghosting here and there, etc, but nothing out of the ordinary. I bagged a 6-0 until the end where I got shot down, because we started recapping the issues while still flying, else, we would have all landed intact with a shared 15 or more kills in between us. The phoenix, while doing its wonky thing, guided to target, Jester behaved like a good pupil... meanwhile we were praying for a bug to happen... Why am I saying this? I think there is currently a mix between real issues that happen which we acknowledge 100% (I mean we have seen proof enough, even if we ourselves cannot reproduce it), but also a bit of user error, or limited understanding of the radar/ learning curve etc that muddies the line atm a bit between what really is buggy radar behavior, and what is simply an old radar working as advertised. I will open a new thread soon, so we can observe new reports only and clean out a bit old impressions, etc... Of course this is not meant to pass judgement on anyone's radar skills.

 

That's just on a side note to let you guys know how our internal testing went last weak. Suffice to say, we really hoped to experience the issues ourselves. But, it also points towards these issues likely becoming less likely, so to speak. Which is very positive, at least from our point of view. If they would be frequent still, we would have seen at least something. Yet, we didn't. Even in the density of reports and player feedback I get directly from online players, it seems to have improved lately a lot. Hence, for the time being, I am approaching all reports concerning the radar with caution. Needless to say that we don't take them any less serious because of that.

 

Please let me know how your other missions went. If you have the PG map, try on devil's edge. Personally I get 100% detection every time I fly it and 100% kill ratio on both 29s.

 

 

I am 100% willing to chalk it up to user error. I am about the furthest thing from an expert there is. I only mentioned it because before the patch I was always able to pick up those targets, but not after. Certainly I could have been doing something wrong. I'll assume that I was, and I'll go keep playing.

 

I also hopped into MP since I posted that "issue" and my radar seemed to be working fine (other than Jester dropping lock after the AIM-54s come off the rail).

 

I have much to learn! Thanks, Mike!

 

 

Cheers

[IronMike]

It's never an unsatisfying answer if it helps the issue, I'll get on working on turning of that feature, adjust the volume sliders of the helmet instead and see if I can find a balance so it won't blow my ear drums out :thumbup:

 

 

Thanks for looking into it and giving me something to work with.

 

 

 

 

Let me please know how it went with the changes.

[IronMike]

I concur. I have always used the "hear like in helmet" feature because it's great simulation of what it says. It worked fine in other modules and it did in F-14 too before. Without the option it sounds like... without helmet and is unbearable. The switches are too loud and are not connected to the appropriate volume slider. With the option for helmet we should hear clearly the comms, audible warnings, RWR, Sidewinder tone (I might have missed sth) while cockpit switches, ECS, engines and external sounds should be muffled. All should be muffled when there is no el. power.

 

 

That "muffling" completely cripples our sound work. You need to adjust cockpit and helmet sliders to achieve the volume of your personal preference, but the sounds are tweaked to sound like they would in a cockpit (minus the fact that you wouldnt hear switches at all, but we do that to offer an alternative to the lack of haptic feedback).

 

I can only say it again: we strongly advice against using "hear like in helmet" and if you do, we cannot guarantee that our sounds actually sound as intended and that you can mix them to your liking in a proper way.

 

It shouldn't extist as an option in the first place - imho, it is a slap in every sound artist's face and nothing else. That said, I know many like the effect it makes, and that is completely fine, but again, if you use it, we cannot guarantee that our sounds actually sound as they were intended to sound.

 

 

That doesn't mean we are not willing to look into the Jester sound issue, we're just getting mixed results ourselves atm, only 1 of our devs finds it too loud, the rest of us seem to be fairly happy, also due to our own slider settings for world, cockpit and helmet respectively - which doesn't mean we dismiss that some of you find it too loud at all. It's just difficult to find a good middle ground. And atm it is not tied to cockpit sound, and not to ICS volume, since we implemented Jester and cockpit alert sounds via headphones, which poses another obstacle. We'll keep looking in to it.

Edited September 29, 2020 by IronMike

[Lt_Jaeger]

Don't the rotors provide a return at rather high doppler?

Could someone elaborate on this statement?

 

I know first hand that helos leave a distinct pattern on an Doppler radar wich even prevent notching.

 

How about in the Tomcat?

 

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[viper2097]

I know this is a minor one and stands last in line, but still:

NEW! Added ability to hide HUD Camera: click the HUD camera in the cockpit to remove it. (F-14 pilots could carry hex wrenches to remove the HUD camera, especially for landing.)

 

Won't you add a little delay between clicking and disappearing with the sound from a wrench turning? Would be awesome :pilotfly:.

[IronMike]

I am 100% willing to chalk it up to user error. I am about the furthest thing from an expert there is. I only mentioned it because before the patch I was always able to pick up those targets, but not after. Certainly I could have been doing something wrong. I'll assume that I was, and I'll go keep playing.

 

I also hopped into MP since I posted that "issue" and my radar seemed to be working fine (other than Jester dropping lock after the AIM-54s come off the rail).

 

I have much to learn! Thanks, Mike!

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

Anytime, however - it's not necessarily user error. But even I find myself often in a situation where I did not sanitize the sky properly or put the AWG-9 at a disatvantage and then curse the radar for a brief moment, before looking at my own doings.. We just need to be careful atm with reports that are not 10/10 reproducable, means happen wrongly every single time. In general TWS was a "fairly unreliable" radar mode, and not necessarily the mode preferred to engage targets. It is easy to forget that, as it self advertises as some kind of uber mode, but in fact of course it splits a lot of radar energy across many targets, etc... Maneuvering has a huge impact on it, own aircraft as well as target, and so on. Those are all things that need to come to mind and be kept in mind as well, when talking about "radar issues" that are not 100% reproducable. :)

[IronMike]

Could someone elaborate on this statement?

 

I know first hand that helos leave a distinct pattern on an Doppler radar wich even prevent notching.

 

How about in the Tomcat?

 

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To be honest, I am not sure, but from what we gathered, I would very carefully suggest "maybe". Mainly due to the fact that helos usually fall way below the notch filter limits, but even if they did produce some kind of return with the rotors, not sure if it was significant enough for one, or even doable/ reproduceable in DCS for that matter. Gyro or Naquaii can probably give you a better, more correct and more knowledgeable answer to this question, I'll forward it to them.

 

 

EDIT: changed it to "maybe", Naquaii will elaborate on it later (and better).

Edited September 28, 2020 by IronMike