Proper procedure for rearming countermeasures?

[key_stroked]

@IronMike can you update us please?

[key_stroked]

Bueller?

[key_stroked]

Is there some reason this is getting ignored?

[QuiGon]

On 3/21/2021 at 8:20 AM, Halcyon said:

Is there some reason this is getting ignored?

 

Probably because there simply is no update on this.

Edited March 22, 2021 by QuiGon

[key_stroked]

8 hours ago, QuiGon said:

 

Probably because there simply is no update on this.

 

 

That doesn't make any sense.

IronMike said Grover would get back to us, and that was back in October, 5 months ago.

 

I've seen IronMike active in plenty of threads these past few weeks, but for some reason he won't come back to this one and just give a simple update, even if it's to tell us "we don't know how it really works yet".

That would be a really bizarre statement, but it's better than just silence. I'm not really asking for much here.

[near_blind]

HB is busy, people get distracted, things fall through. IronMike might have been active in plenty of threads the past few weeks, but none of those threads involved having an answer for the countermeasure question. 

 

 

[Sideburns]

5 hours ago, Halcyon said:

 

That doesn't make any sense.

IronMike said Grover would get back to us, and that was back in October, 5 months ago.

 

I've seen IronMike active in plenty of threads these past few weeks, but for some reason he won't come back to this one and just give a simple update, even if it's to tell us "we don't know how it really works yet".

That would be a really bizarre statement, but it's better than just silence. I'm not really asking for much here.

 

This week is also the lead up to a rather large patch, 2.7, so they probably have their hands full testing and fixing for that.

[key_stroked]

Can we get an update on this? Please?

Edited April 6, 2021 by Halcyon

[key_stroked]

Still looking for an update...this is beginning to feel intentionally ignored by Heatblur.

[QuiGon]

"Ignored" is a strong word, but it is definitely kinda neglected by HB

Edited April 14, 2021 by QuiGon

[key_stroked]

@IronMike @Cobra847

Please...I'm asking in the nicest way possible. Can either of you ask Grover what he found out about how we're supposedly to correctly rearm the countermeasures after a sortie?
If I've somehow offended the team then I'm sorry. I don't know how I would have done that, but whatever it was it wasn't my intention.

I just want to know how to do this without getting a completely new aircraft and going through the startup procedure again. Can someone please answer?

[Torun]

Here's my two cents.

 

• Land.
• Open the rearm window, rearm as needed but remove the sidewinders including pylons. Chaff and flare should be input without the rail adapter count.
• Get rearmed, open the rearm window again, get the sidewinders with the chaff rail.

Now, in the 2.7 patch, the cartridge settings as shown in the kneeboard started working correctly, but I still don't trust it + I had to deal with this so long I learned how to set up manually anyway:

 

When you use the rail adapter, R10 becomes solely the rail adapter and is always C. R20 becomes R30, because the actual R10 cartridge is redirected to R20. So now you have L10, L20, Rail and R30.

 

Any combination of countermeasures in multiples of 10 is still possible. My wing usually uses 20 chaff, 40 flares + rail adapter, this makes the countermeasures F C C F. Sometimes we use C F C F for A-G missions. I'll let you figure this one out.

[key_stroked]

Well, I've tried every which way I know how to ask for an update on this. I've tried tagging people multiple times, asking politely, and the final attempt was private messaging IronMike.
All attempts have ended with complete silence.

 

I guess I know where I stand as Heatblur's customer

Edited May 13, 2021 by key_stroked

[Karon]

The last time I tried the procedure described by the manual worked correctly. I wrote about it almost two years ago exactly (jeez how Jon Snow I was - and still am), and I had no issues reaming or changing the ratio between Chaffs and Flares in the AN/ALE-39 (I do not write anything I haven't tried myself beforehand).

The LAU-138 IIRC behaved like the Fuel Tanks, swap them out and then load them up again. However, again IIRC, in order to "apply" the CM I had to change something in the payload, basically forcing the merry ground crew to work on the aircraft. That triggered the CM reload process. Then, once everything's done, double-check the kneeboard, reset the thingy and you are good to go.

 

I see if I can find some time to quickly record a brief video.

 

EDIT: just tested with the F-14A-135. It works as always had. I'm going to record a 30" video later or tomorrow.

 

EDIT2: there, 20' job. Quickly cobbled together but I hope it helps. Nice findings @The_Tau, I added your post in the description if that's fine for you.

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Karon

[The_Tau]

@key_stroked

To reload CMs

first  I set ratio in radio (by ground crew),

then I rearm (always taking 60 flares and 140 chaff in sliders). You have to rearm as well.

 

It seem it rearm (and updates kneeboard) as last step in rearming process (first it refuels, then loads weapons,  and lastly CMs). Seem to work every time EXCEPT....

 

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by The_Tau

[IronMike]

On 3/4/2021 at 9:38 AM, QuiGon said:

 

I don't think there is an answer to this yet. I myself have been experimenting with Tomcat countermeassure rearming in the past few weeks again, but still haven't found a way how to rearm countermeassures reliably (especially when flying with multicrewing).

It seems like both crewmembers (or maybe just the RIO or maybe this also depends if one of them is the server host or not) have to change the CM  loadout through the comms menu and then perform a rearming afterwards, but that often results in some other odd bugs, like inconsistent fuel loads (see pic).

 

So yeah, I would really appreciate if this could get answered/fixed!

Meanwhile I continue experimenting with different ways to rearm CMs...

 

 

 

 

Good find, QuiGon, not sure if we can do something about it, but I tracked it.

[QuiGon]

On 6/12/2021 at 2:29 PM, IronMike said:

Good find, QuiGon, not sure if we can do something about it, but I tracked it.

 

Thanks! I should have opened a new bug report thread for this, as it is a bug on its own that I just discovered while testing CMS rearming methods.

 

In regards to CMS multicrew rearming, I think I have found a way to make it work properly (with both crewmembers being clients):

1) RIO sets the CMS loadout for the missile rails through the ground crew comms menu.

2) Pilot does the same.

3) Pilot requests rearming (and changes internal flare/chaff amount if desired). After rearming both kneeboards of both crewmembers should now show the correct CMS cartridge laodout.

4) RIO sets the correct CMS cartridge loadout on his CMS panel and then presses the CMS reset switch for 5+ seconds.

 

Now the amount of available chaff/flares should actually be correct. I need to do some more testing to confirm this.

Edited June 15, 2021 by QuiGon

[IronMike]

I talked with @Super Grover couple days ago, and we will also revisit if there is not a better day to do it altogether.

thank you all for the input again, and sorry for missing this thread for so long.

[Super Grover]

Yes, I'm going to revisit the CMS procedure soon and make it more intuitive. The current version is a workaround for the rearm panel not having our custom presets, but it's too easy to end up with a wrong setup. I'll let you know about the results.

[IronMike]

In general, everyone and @key_stroked - we're never intentionally ignoring or neglecting something. We just prioritize internally, and get to things bit by bit. Since you mentioned us the first time, we talked about overhauling CMS rearm, but just did not get to it. Then a thousand different things come in between, and we simply forget about it. But: we forget temporarily, because everything, or almost everything you guys post or tell us, lands on our list. And at some point we get to an item again and then fix it, overhaul it or improve it as necessary.

Please forgive us that we're not always as active in all the threads as we want to be, lately I am trying to stay away from forums a bit more (I try to reply atm only to the most urgent stuff or what simply "jumps in my eye"), because it really eats away a lot of my time I need to spend on campaigns, testing, developing in general, etc etc. I truly love nothing more than to spend time with you guys, talk with you guys and be there for you guys, but especially before major patches I have to "restrain" myself a bit. Thank you for your very kind understanding. And please - never take it personal or as intentional if we may miss your concern for a while, in the end, we get to everything in time. 

 

Thank you, and my sincere apologies again for neglecting this for so long.

Edited June 16, 2021 by IronMike

[QuiGon]

Thanks guys, I'm glad this issue is now getting some attention again! It drives me nuts everytime I do a multicrew rearming (which I do quite often!) :thumbups:

 

@Super Grover A more user friendly approach would be great, although I do admire the intent behind the current system to be as close as real life as possible and distinguishing between the internal CMs and the launcher rails CMs.

[QuiGon]

After further observing the issue I can say the following:

 

Changing ALE-39 loadouts in a multicrew environment (both crewmembers being clients on a third party server) works fine at first try after spawning (pilot asks ground crew to change ALE-39 loadout, then asks for rearming without changing the chaff and flare sliders and after rearming is complete, both crewmembers see the new ALE-39 loadout in their kneeboards).

 

However, it does not work when trying to change the ALE-39 loadout a 2nd time. It just reverts to the default ALE-39 loadout. On the 3rd attempt it then works again, but fails again at the 4th attempt.

 

So in short: Setting the ALE-39 laodout only works on every 2nd attempt per aircraft.

 

Edit: I should add that I have not tested singleplayer and thus can't say if the problem might exist there as well.

Edited October 11, 2021 by QuiGon

[Super Grover]

That is very suspicious behaviour. I'm putting it at the top of my priorities list after we release the upcoming update.

[DSplayer]

7 hours ago, QuiGon said:

After further observing the issue I can say the following:

 

Changing ALE-39 loadouts in a multicrew environment (both crewmembers being clients on a third party server) works fine at first try after spawning (pilot asks ground crew to change ALE-39 loadout, then asks for rearming without changing the chaff and flare sliders and after rearming is complete, both crewmembers see the new ALE-39 loadout in their kneeboards).

 

However, it does not work when trying to change the ALE-39 loadout a 2nd time. It just reverts to the default ALE-39 loadout. On the 3rd attempt it then works again, but fails again at the 4th attempt.

 

So in short: Setting the ALE-39 laodout only works on every 2nd attempt per aircraft.

 

Edit: I should add that I have not tested singleplayer and thus can't say if the problem might exist there as well.

 

In my experience, if the person that changes the ALE-39 also rearms the aircraft, the loadout is correct. But if, for example, the RIO changes the ALE-39 but the Pilot rearms, the ALE-39 setting that the pilot chose is used (which is generally the stock setting). This can also happen when you rearm multiple times from both people (RIO changes ALE and rearms and then the Pilot rearms the aircraft at a later time).

[QuiGon]

Just now, DSplayer said:

In my experience, if the person that changes the ALE-39 also rearms the aircraft, the loadout is correct. But if, for example, the RIO changes the ALE-39 but the Pilot rearms, the ALE-39 setting that the pilot chose is used (which is generally the stock setting). This can also happen when you rearm multiple times from both people (RIO changes ALE and rearms and then the Pilot rearms the aircraft at a later time).

 

I always let the pilot do all the interaction with the ground crew and it does not work all the time as I explained above. On every 2nd, 4th, 6th, ... flight with the same aircraft the ALE-39 loadout is wrong. We rearm between each flight and tell the ground crew to reset the ALE-39 loadout before asking for rearming.