After the Gazelle, buy another Polychop Helo worth the risk?

[borchi_2b]

@outlawal2:

 

A helicopter will fly straight in no wind conditions as soon it is perfectly trimmed out. There are even videos on youtube where you can see such as evidence. I have seen one video where a father flys with his teen son a bell47 and he has no hands on the controlls for 2 or 3 minutes in the video or if he did corrections, he did a small input and hed the cyclic rest in its trimmed position again without touching anything. To add ontop, the guy had some gust winds aswell. After having seen this video over a year ago, I called one of the SMEs and asked him if this would be possible with the kiowa warrior aswell, guess his answer?

 

His answer was, if the Kiowa Warrior would have been perfectly trimmed, and no external forces like wind, would push the helicopter out of its trimmed position, it would fly in a straight level line until the engine runs out of fuel, which is roughly 8% of remaining fuel, where the fuelpump is not able to suck the remaining fuel out of the gastank.

 

;)

[outlawal2]

@outlawal2:

 

A helicopter will fly straight in no wind conditions as soon it is perfectly trimmed out. There are even videos on youtube where you can see such as evidence. I have seen one video where a father flys with his teen son a bell47 and he has no hands on the controlls for 2 or 3 minutes in the video or if he did corrections, he did a small input and hed the cyclic rest in its trimmed position again without touching anything. To add ontop, the guy had some gust winds aswell. After having seen this video over a year ago, I called one of the SMEs and asked him if this would be possible with the kiowa warrior aswell, guess his answer?

 

His answer was, if the Kiowa Warrior would have been perfectly trimmed, and no external forces like wind, would push the helicopter out of its trimmed position, it would fly in a straight level line until the engine runs out of fuel, which is roughly 8% of remaining fuel, where the fuelpump is not able to suck the remaining fuel out of the gastank.

 

;)

 

That would be true if you could ABSOLUTELY PERFECTLY get trimmed out so that you are ABSOLUTELY PERFECTLY lined up with the tracks. IN REAL LIFE that is absolutely impossible to do. This is exactly the point. No matter how awesome a pilot you are, there will be SOME kind of variance to your lineup and eventually the helicopter will veer away from the tracks at some point. You could not line the helicopter up so perfectly that you could leave it as-is for 8 hours straight and have it never veer from the tracks, but you CAN with the Gazelle.

 

I give up. Apparently I am not capable of describing what the issues are eloquently enough for folks to understand what I am saying.

 

Please enjoy your module.

[borchi_2b]

I do understand what you mean. The fm update will also fix the problem of the cyclic of the gazelle. no worries. Still i have first hand evidence that a kiowa was flown hands of straight at safe altitude perfectly trimmed. the pilot is still able to give evidence of it. By that note I had done simikar with the huey ingame ;)

[swatstar98]

 

I would not say impossible :)

[RealDCSpilot]

@borchi_2b

 

Will it also fix the totally overdone sensitivity of the cyclic? Will it also fix the continous roll behaviour with just a bit of left or right cyclic input that makes it fly like a plane with wings and ailerons? Why didn't that irritate you at all over the years?

 

@swatstar98

 

Come on, 5 seconds with no hands. And you can see how the airframe is actually working against air resistance. Ridiculous to bring that here...

Edited October 8, 2020 by Alec Delorean

[outlawal2]

@borchi_2b

 

Will it also fix the totally overdone sensitivity of the cyclic? Will it also fix the continous roll behaviour with just a bit of left or right cyclic input that makes it fly like a plane with wings and ailerons? Why didn't that irritate you all over the years?

 

Well I can tell you that the sensitivity doesn't really bother me because every helicopter I have ever piloted has been EXTREMELY sensitive to inputs so I leave that one alone.

 

I can tell you that the sensitivity of the Robinson R22 is so severe that during training my instructor told me to stop trying to move the cyclic to go in the direction I wanted. He said to simply THINK about moving the cyclic and you would get it. And that worked, but it took a long time to get used to it.

 

So I can't say if the sensitivity is accurate for a Gazelle, but I can say that that aspect of the model is certainly possible so I don't include it in my personal issues I have with the Gazelle.

 

The roll behavior to me is strange as well..

[swatstar98]

It's more than 20s and you can see how the helicopter maintains perfectly the attitude without a problem. And that helicopter doesn't even has SAS, so, anyway it can be done.

[RealDCSpilot]

@outlawal2

 

Yes, that's why you have to work on the cyclic in the real Gazelle all the time. Like this:

 

From the outside it will look very stable, that's what some people don't get.

 

@swatstar98

 

I count 7 seconds without correcting.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Alec Delorean

[swatstar98]

 

there you have more time

[RealDCSpilot]

Did you read what that video is about?

 

Or is the Gazelle module actually an Rotorway Turbo under the hood?

 

Here is the same guy in the Gazelle, look at his inputs:

 

Look how it looks like when it lifts off, not straight up in the air, like pulled up on a cable. It's unstable like any other helicopter as soon the skids loose ground contact.

 

Why do we not see that in DCS?

Edited October 8, 2020 by Alec Delorean

[swatstar98]

I don't care alec, indeed, my initial post wasn't aimed at you, and anyway my point wasn't about gazelle was about helicopters as group. And I don't discuss something that is going to be changed and less with people that are not SA-342 pilot.

 

Cheers

[RealDCSpilot]

Well it's been 4 years, i really hope someone starts to care someday.

[Fri13]

Are we all flying the same Gazelle here ? the one I fly will crash if left hands off for any period of time.

You do realise it has SCAS don't you ?

 

Disable TRIM and SAS all together, and the there is no difference.

You do realise that we do know about these problems well, and you keep telling us that we have problems in our ends, with advices that doesn't fix the problems we have been discussing and what is one of the major reasons why someone might consider KW as risk?

[swatstar98]

It's as easy, wait for the kiowa, when it goes out there, and the people that have it in their hands, they will give their opinion, if you keep being skeptical about it, wait for gaz rework, discussing it again when it is going to be changed is something I don't care enough, to waste time about, because won't help anybody. Everything you said it's already in other threads in the forum, repeating them is just duplicating info. Just my 2cents, you may use your time playing or having fun until is changed instead of being here discussing something already discussed.

[outlawal2]

I don't care alec, indeed, my initial post wasn't aimed at you, and anyway my point wasn't about gazelle was about helicopters as group. And I don't discuss something that is going to be changed and less with people that are not SA-342 pilot.

 

Cheers

 

 

Then don't

 

Buh Bye

[borchi_2b]

@Alec Delorian: You are also invited to join Low Level Hell discord and discuss with real helicopter pilots there all day helicopter theories with people from all ofver the world. It is very enjoyable as long you stay reasonable and nice

[borchi_2b]

Guys, keep it civil. that goes to all of you. This topic is getting close to the risc of getting closed as many other topics where people pound on a topic ofver and over and over again.

 

This goes out to @Fri13 @Alec Delorian @outlawal2. What is your point on jumping on every discussion about the gazelle and turn it into a "shit show" each time ? This is more aimed at Fri and Alec!

I keep it professional as much as you let it flow from your side, but at some point, topics get closed because you dive into it over and over and over again. Seriously guys. You guys invest so much time in typing novels of posts, but it seems like you either do not want to read, that the gazelle will be updated, or you simple do ignore it. You rather then talk about the whole Polychop Team, try to convince the community that we are a bunch of idiots and do not know what we talk about, including the team of SMEs we have around constantly for the projects and you neglect that even we as a team and developers evolve and create better stuff.

 

I am personally sick and tired to constantly see shitshows of single individuals on the forum, which is why I am reading here maybe once per week only. Sorry, but people wonder why I personally do not concider the forum as tier 1 information platfoirm, there you have the reason.

 

Common sense, and respect shared between eachother should be to common code of conduct, even here. So if you guys do not get this solved, this topic is gettigng closed, like so many others. Maybe you realise once, that you hurt the community more then help the community with, from my perspective, some sort of personal vendetta. Please stop this, because as I mentioned it two lines before, it does not help.

 

Aswell, maybe, as open and honest we are, also not only point fingers at us, but also understand and read aswell what we have stated on multiple platforms.

 

Sincearly

 

Sven

CEO/ Lead 3d artist Polychop Simulations

Edited October 8, 2020 by borchi_2b

[Fri13]

And I don't discuss something that is going to be changed

 

Yes, we know very well that it is going to be changed in the future, after Kiowa Warrior, by using the same new methods as with Kiowa Warrior.

 

But you do know that if people that do not like Gazelle flight modeling, are considering taking the risk to get a Kiowa Warrior, and to that risk to happen it would need to be that Kiowa Warrior FM is not what expected. So how much you can expect then from Gazelle when it gets new FM?

 

and less with people that are not SA-342 pilot.

 

Cheers

 

Logical Fallacy - Argument from authority.

 

You again do not understand that Gazelle flies completely unlike any other helicopter in the world. In the whole real world there is no such helicopter behaving like the Gazelle does.

It doesn't matter does the person confirming that with a experience piloting SA-342 or not, when it already can be seen by anyone that it is broken, time after time.

 

It is nothing more than someone personal opinion for them that at what quality they accept for their personal use.

If someone is happy with a GTA III level helicopter modeling, that is their opinion but it doesn't mean that it is correct flight modeling in DCS.

 

If someone is unhappy with a Gazelle flight modeling, it is again their personal opinion but it is based to that they have expectations that DCS would uphold the level of flight modeling that is as good as possible for given resources. But that doesn't mean that flight modeling can not be incorrect.

 

A real helicopter is flown with three controls, both hands and feets working together through the different flight envelopes.

Gazelle doesn't behave anything like that. Want to go up? Raise collective up. Want to go down? Collective down. Want to turn right? Push right pedal. Want to pitch up 15 degree per second? Cyclic up proper amount and hold it there and gazelle keeps going as long the cyclic is kept away from the center. Want to Gazelle to stop rolling or changing pitch? Set cyclic to center.

 

 

Does Kiowa Warrior resemble those traits that Gazelle has?

(Old video from 10 months back).

 

Look very carefully the control input box, there you see the position of the cyclic as main cross, pedals at bottom of it and collective position at the left.

 

Do you see anything suspecious in the control inputs relative to the Kiowa attitude changes?

Like if you look 20:15 forward few seconds when He does first pitch down to accelerate, and then after that first roll to the left, that how the control input positions on each of maneuvers?

 

Like do you see how to get a helicopter roll to about 20 degree, the cyclic input is first very little given to the roll direction and then returned back to center, while the Kiowa holds the roll angle, until new input is given to opposite from the center of cyclic position (to the left) to roll it left and cyclic is moved back to center to keep it level...

 

My assumption after watching the few videos of the Kiowa Warrior that has the control input box visible, there are the same traits as Gazelle has right now. Meaning, you likely don't never run out of the cyclic range as the main rotor doesn't lose its effectiveness.

 

There are many informations missing for exact values, but considering that Kiowa Warrior is said to be very limited by its power.

 

How about the MG use?

Jump to 2:29:10 in the video for the MG.... Does it look any means wrong? (anyone should say: YES).

 

And then listen up this from 26:20 forward: https://www.fighterpilotpodcast.com/episodes/089-oh-58-kiowa/

And after that, compare what that REAL PILOT SAY and compare it to that video CONTROL INPUT BOX that how much PEDALS did he use while firing that MG?

 

Now in YOUR OPINION, does those two (the video and the interview) match by their information?

You should be able form a opinion based physics and know when something is wrong, and not need authority to say it for you....

[outlawal2]

uys, keep it civil. that goes to all of you. This topic is getting close to the risc of getting closed as many other topics where people pound on a topic ofver and over and over again.

 

This goes out to @Fri13 @Alec Delorian @outlawal2. What is your point on jumping on every discussion about the gazelle and turn it into a "shit show" each time ? This is more aimed at Fri and Alec!

I keep it professional as much as you let it flow from your side, but at some point, topics get closed because you dive into it over and over and over again. Seriously guys. You guys invest so much time in typing novels of posts, but it seems like you either do not want to read, that the gazelle will be updated, or you simple do ignore it. You rather then talk about the whole Polychop Team, try to convince the community that we are a bunch of idiots and do not know what we talk about, including the team of SMEs we have around constantly for the projects and you neglect that even we as a team and developers evolve and create better stuff.

 

I am personally sick and tired to constantly see shitshows of single individuals on the forum, which is why I am reading here maybe once per week only. Sorry, but people wonder why I personally do not concider the forum as tier 1 information platfoirm, there you have the reason.

 

Common sense, and respect shared between eachother should be to common code of conduct, even here. So if you guys do not get this solved, this topic is gettign closed, like so many others. Maybe you realise once, that you hurt the community more then help the community with, from my perspective, some sort of personal vendetta. Please stop this, because as I mentioned it to lines before, it does not help.

 

Aswell, maybe, as open and honest we are, also not only point fingers at us, but also understand and read aswell what we have stated on multiple platforms.

 

Sincearly

 

Sven

CEO/ Lead 3d artist Polychop Simulations

 

MODS:

Are you going to delete this post due to 1.1 as well?

Asking for a friend

[Fri13]

This goes out to @Fri13 @Alec Delorian @outlawal2. What is your point on jumping on every discussion about the gazelle and turn it into a "shit show" each time ? This is more aimed at Fri and Alec!

 

Okay, you make a claim that it is "on every discussion about gazelle and turn it into a "shit show" each time?".

Please give us a 10 different discussion threads about each of us where we have "turned it into a "shit show" each time"?

You made very interesting claim now, so please back it up....

 

Edit: Waiting your apology for false claims and personal attacks.

 

I am personally sick and tired to constantly see shitshows of single individuals on the forum, which is why I am reading here maybe once per week only. Sorry, but people wonder why I personally do not concider the forum as tier 1 information platfoirm, there you have the reason.

 

Yes, I read this place like once a year. Only reason why I am in this thread is that it just came up at top of the "New Posts". If you would know me, you would know my post history in YOUR FORUM, and you would not have made such claims as above because you would know they are untrue and nothing else than personal attacks to shift blame of the problems.

 

The business with customers goes in one way, if you act badly toward them, they will find it out and they will not like it. And if the community management can't be handled properly, it will lead to bad public relations and will bounce right back to the business owner. On the era of the Internet, negativity effects are counted down in hours even. So public statements and actions can have very quick effect to ruin the business.

 

Common sense, and respect shared between eachother should be to common code of conduct, even here.

 

I have given respect to people here, You have not given none to me and couple other forum members.

Common sense should be here that personal attacks do not help anyone.

 

If you read the ED forum rules, there specifically is a rule for a code of conduct that literally says:

1.2 Forum members must treat each other with respect and tolerance.

That says it all.

 

Is your claim that I and couple others ALL THE TIME COME TO MAKE A SHOW be any means respect toward us? Toward anyone else? No. You know it, and you do not like it.

 

There is as well another rule:

1.10 Product feedback and constructive criticism is encouraged when provided in a mature and courteous manner. However, feedback that is abusive, insulting or condescending is not welcome. Additionally, to bring up a particular issue repeatedly after it has already been acknowledged will be considered "trolling" - in such cases a warning will be issued to the author and the post will be removed.

 

And if anyone uses Common Sense, this thread is a poll that questions about future product of yours, that is under the topic that is the old issue existing in right it, so is it a risk to buy a such product.

So is it? Video evidences of the new unreleased product are used as evidence for a flight modeling, that is raising completely valid questions, and raising a valid reason for many to revalidate their risk judgement for the future product.

 

Edit2: To make it easier for you to backup your claims, but I can only speak from my part and not now the others you make accusations for as well:

 

I keep it professional as much as you let it flow from your side, but at some point, topics get closed because you dive into it over and over and over again.[quote

 

Please clarify what you have tried to say there with "As much you let it flow from your side"? Does the threads gets closed because it stays professional (= no name calling, no accusations, no personal attacks...) or what?

So sorry, my english skills requires you to clarify that because I only get a feeling there that what you said is "I am a professional, but only up to a point because you are not".

 

Seriously guys. You guys invest so much time in typing novels of posts, but it seems like you either do not want to read

 

So now seriously, was the earlier not serious?

You make a claim that we do not want to read (I do not want to read).

Have you read this thread from the start? Have you read the threads that you claim that we all have always started or turned to something you claim? Want to check that?

 

, that the gazelle will be updated

 

Did you read the second post #19 from me in this thread? https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4513472&postcount=19

and is getting rewriting after Kiowa Warrior, just as mentioned in first posts.

It is a dead horse as a topic as it is waiting a future to happen.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4515141&postcount=39

That is why there are people people do not like its flight behavior and they are hoping to see that new flight modeling sooner or later.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4515149&postcount=41

Shouldn't we give a Polychop a new change if Kiowa Warrior turns to be good, or at least acceptable? Hoping that they can then fix Gazelle too later?

 

Did you read those?....

 

, or you simple do ignore it.

 

....or did you simply ignore above ones?

 

Many times we few that you specifically named, literally remind people about upcoming Gazelle rewriting after Kiowa Warrior, using the same methods as made to do Kiowa Warrior.

If you would read what we have been discussing is directly to the point of this whole poll thread:

 

"After the Gazelle, buy another Polychop Helo worth the risk?"

 

Here is the breakdown you to this discussion for you:

To someone make a decision buy a Kiowa Warrior, they need to make a mind that what are the important features and capabilities of it.

If a company previous product is not up to the standards that are expected, then is there a risk that a future soon (two weeks) to be released product will not have the same situation as the previous product. Someone can take simple quick decision, some would like to know more before they make their purchase decision, and someone can take a leap of faith.

Now, if someone comes and says "I don't understand".... Then they can be helped to understand a situation. Isn't that in your opinion a good thing that when you have a problem to understand something, that you would be enlighten and helped so you would understand the topic? (People go and use it as their attack method, starting with "I don't understand how you are such a..." like it would render their saying a valid one and can hide their negativity toward topic. As it is literally "I don't know about this topic, but it is wrong").

So they get adviced and informed about the status quo (current situation in Gazelle), about the future plans (G will get the flight model fixing using KW methods), and about the information there is about the upcoming product already out there (videos of the Kiowa Warrior).

 

To someone understand that what are the risks in the future, they need to have information about what they are. Do you agree?

To someone make a claims that everything is fine now, and nothing bad will happen, they are simply ignoring the status quo, and if so, they as well do not have information about what are the risks. So can they make a proper risk evaluation?

 

We are talking about RISKS here, about the future purchase decisions that people need to make if they consider buying Kiowa Warrior.

 

You rather then talk about the whole Polychop Team,

 

Yes, because we do not go pick a specific individual and start to make a claims about that person, because it would be a:

1) Unprofessional

2) Personal attacks

3) Irrelevant

 

It doesn't matter who work for the Polychop, or what job titles they have or who is responsible for what. It does not matter!

 

The Gazelle is product of the Polychop, if someone talks about Gazelle then that is not about talking about the Polychop personnel.

The Kiowa Warrior is the product of the Polychop, again it is not about talking the Polychop personnel if talking about KW.

 

When someone says "Polychop needs to...." it is not same thing at all as "The CEO of the Polychop needs to....". Or do you disagree?

When someone says "Polychop didn't get Gazelle flight modeling right", it is not at all same thing as "The X person in Polychop didn't get Gazelle flight modeling right". Or do you disagree?

The person who is responsible for the Gazelle flight model, as well the person who is responsible for upcoming Kiowa Warrior flight model are unknown. They are individuals who doesn't matter to be named or even mentioned, because it is not about personnel but about the product of the company and its status.

Because it is not personal, and companies are not person.

 

 

try to convince the community that we are a bunch of idiots

 

Please quote the post in this thread that where anyone is called idiot?

Where individual(s) of Polychop team are called by any names?

 

Otherwise it is just personal attack from your part.

 

and do not know what we talk about

 

Please quote the post (or posts) in this thread that says that?

And then again please clarify that what you mean with "what we talk about" as the topic.

As you are just trying to generalize some attacks against you by inventing them and pointing that at us as the root for all of it by specifically picking up a few pseudonyms, and that is a personal attack and very rude.

 

, including the team of SMEs we have around constantly for the projects

 

Wow. Like please quote the post in this thread where I have said anything about SME's? Where I have even mentioned them by names or using word "SME"?

If even Polychiop have agreed, accepted, and announced that Gazelle flight modeling is wrong and it will receive a fixing after Kiowa Warrior, then isn't that same as Polychop itself have made a claim that they didn't know what they were doing in the first place because they didn't get it right and needs fixing?

Now if that same traits of Gazelle current (non-changed) flight modeling are visible in the upcoming Kiowa Warrior promotional event videos, then would you agree that a customer making a purchase decision based to material Polychop has provided is a valid to be used for risk management by comparing such a simple official statements from Polychop as: "We didn't get it right in Gazelle, but we get it right in Kiowa Warrior and fix Gazelle"? Now what should a customer do, if they truly have faith on Polychop getting Kiowa Warrior in a such situation that it is "well done" and have a faith on Polychop word "We promise to fix the Gazelle", but the Kiowa Warrior shows a traits of the status of current Gazelle?.... Not to talk about it in a thread of "...worth the risk?", as that would be "Do not Discuss at all Kiowa Warrior flight modeling, and do not compare it to Gazelle flight modeling at all!".

 

and you neglect that even we as a team and developers evolve and create better stuff.

 

Please quote on that.... As we can discuss with what we have been provided by Polychop various public events to market the upcoming Kiowa Warrior and is there risks involved that Gazelle would happen again. I started with "Kiowa Warrior status is good". But just the few days I have looked more carefully to Kiowa Warrior videos and such, it has started to raise totally valid questions that are concerning about risks being too high.

If you do not like that Kiowa Warrior is discussed as potential high risk purchase by your current customers, then you would come here to say that ED official DCS World forum that has a sub-forum dedicated for your product, is not a "Tier #1" place.

 

I have not talked about Polychop personnel, I don't even know how many there are, who there are and so on. I just found on your post that you are the "CEO" and as well "Lead 3D artist" and even your name. I didn't care that information, because I DO NOT CARE WHO IS THE PERSON AS IT DOESN'T MATTER IN COMPANY!

So when a company CEO comes with personal attacks, pointing individuals and making a lies and accusations just to outburst bad feelings, that is not good! It is not good at all!

When a individual forum member doesn't pick up a specific individual worker in the company, then it would be better that worker in that company wouldn't do it from their side. Don't you agree?

 

Your post seems to reflect outcry for "This place is so toxic, we do not come here but we want to ban all the negative people in our Discord and Facebook groups!" like some other studio did, and they got a storm everywhere because their comments, and especially because their lack of communications here. When the company try to sell products and they are not providing customer support, they are not present in the official forums, they get in the PR problems. And it doesn't help them at all to start pointing fingers and accuse people with lies.

 

As I said, I can not talk behalf of others in any previous history actions in these forums, but I can talk by mine. When you accuse someone, they have rights to defend themselves. Don't you agree?

 

So I will post here for everyone to read my 2020 year posts in Polychop forum, as you made a accusation that I am here ALWAYS causing trouble by any means I can (you do get the point you made) Here are the posts that are not in this specific thread:

08-26-2020 https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4467476&postcount=12

08-25-2020 https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4465835&postcount=5

04-22-2020 https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4300850&postcount=3

04-22-2020 https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4300838&postcount=2

04-22-2020 https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4300271&postcount=1

01-26-2020 https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4188208&postcount=6

12-22-2019 https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4148937&postcount=5

 

And then there are few 2018 and 2017 and majority of the rest are 2016 posts.

 

Now please apology from me about your made public accusations that clearly are a lie, as you have not read what I have written, you have ignored who's posts you have been reading and you have nothing else to do than build a strawman.

When a CEO sees effort to pick a individual from the forum and make so bold claims, it is better that CEO has then a courage and manners as well to correct false claims. Don't you agree?

 

I have not talked about CEO anywhere, I have not blamed CEO anywhere. So I expect then that CEO wouldn't come to write specifically about Me neither.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Fri13
Added more below Edit:. Edit2 added at below.

[outlawal2]

uys, keep it civil. that goes to all of you. This topic is getting close to the risc of getting closed as many other topics where people pound on a topic ofver and over and over again.

 

This goes out to @Fri13 @Alec Delorian @outlawal2. What is your point on jumping on every discussion about the gazelle and turn it into a "shit show" each time ? This is more aimed at Fri and Alec!

I keep it professional as much as you let it flow from your side, but at some point, topics get closed because you dive into it over and over and over again. Seriously guys. You guys invest so much time in typing novels of posts, but it seems like you either do not want to read, that the gazelle will be updated, or you simple do ignore it. You rather then talk about the whole Polychop Team, try to convince the community that we are a bunch of idiots and do not know what we talk about, including the team of SMEs we have around constantly for the projects and you neglect that even we as a team and developers evolve and create better stuff.

 

I am personally sick and tired to constantly see shitshows of single individuals on the forum, which is why I am reading here maybe once per week only. Sorry, but people wonder why I personally do not concider the forum as tier 1 information platfoirm, there you have the reason.

 

Common sense, and respect shared between eachother should be to common code of conduct, even here. So if you guys do not get this solved, this topic is gettign closed, like so many others. Maybe you realise once, that you hurt the community more then help the community with, from my perspective, some sort of personal vendetta. Please stop this, because as I mentioned it to lines before, it does not help.

 

Aswell, maybe, as open and honest we are, also not only point fingers at us, but also understand and read aswell what we have stated on multiple platforms.

 

Sincearly

 

Sven

CEO/ Lead 3d artist Polychop Simulations

 

Well I haven't jumped on all kinds fo threads, just this one, and I am not trying to be difficult. Personally, I thought I presented my point of views respectfully and tried to explain why I felt the way I did.

 

As for the *show* I can't speak as to why others feel it is necessary to insult and ridicule a perfectly reasonable opinion backed by facts and reason.

 

I only responded to the OP with my own personal opinion, I am sorry that you don't like it.

[Fri13]

@Alec Delorian: You are also invited to join Low Level Hell discord and discuss with real helicopter pilots there all day helicopter theories with people from all ofver the world. It is very enjoyable as long you stay reasonable and nice

 

How about if some of us jump on the car, drive to the airfield, start up an helicopter and experience it first hand?

 

I would love to experience first hand a co-axial helicopter flight as it being so special, closest that I would never get it is fly to India and use my connections there to have a change to fly KA-27 from India navy.

But I don't dare to ask a such favor too many times from my friends.

 

I don't need to go to Discord to "discuss with real helicopter pilots there all day helicopter theories", and man other don't either because they have exactly the way just to fly anyways and have the experience.

[M4JOR H4V0K]

@Fri13

 

I don't get what you are trying to achieve here.

 

If you are trying to point out flaws with the Gazelle, why? They have already publicly acknowledged those flaws and said they will be updating it after the KW is released. You have provided nothing new that hasn't already been said. If you do have new info of a bug that hasn't been raised and acknowledged, raise a bug report.

 

If you are trying to say that the KW is going to be flawed, what are you basing this on? Until YOU have flown it you have no idea and even then its YOUR OPINION! You do realise they have actual KW pilots not only providing info but actually flying the thing, providing feedback and even making videos. Are you saying that your opinion based on a 10 month old video of a very early build that will bear very little resemblance to what we will get our hand is more valuable than actual pilot feedback? Logical Fallacy - Fallacy of composition ;)

 

Does Kiowa Warrior resemble those traits that Gazelle has?

(Old video from 10 months back).

 

Look very carefully the control input box, there you see the position of the cyclic as main cross, pedals at bottom of it and collective position at the left.

 

Do you see anything suspecious in the control inputs relative to the Kiowa attitude changes?

Like if you look 20:15 forward few seconds when He does first pitch down to accelerate, and then after that first roll to the left, that how the control input positions on each of maneuvers?

 

That's not a right hand roll due to control input, that's Transverse flow effect! The other movements you can hardly see as they are very slight so how do you know how it handles? Just join the discord and/or ask people who actually know what they are talking about instead of spewing assumption based on nothing. The irony of you using that video to say the FM is the same as the Gazelle but ignoring the part in the video where Shiftie says "this handles nothing like anything in DCS, nothing like the Gazelle" is amazing!

 

I get that buying a module that doesn't work can be frustrating and we are all passionate about the sim but to be honest it looks to me like you have an agenda here. You are providing nothing but your assumptions, you were even invited to a discord to talk to REAL KW PILOTS, you refused all while spewing hatred towards Polychop.

Edited October 8, 2020 by M4JOR H4V0K

[Falcon_S]

...

After the Gazelle experience, you feel confident to buy the Scout?

 

Why you need pool to get answers? Who guaranty you that some/all/majority voters ever try some heli?

 

... and

...not even close of the others helos.

You had enough self-confidence to said this after "the KA-50 not looking as helicopter, its hard to describe"?

 

...and finally

After the Gazelle, buy another Polychop Helo worth the risk?

 

Risk?

[Bartacomus]

FLY THE HIP..

 

Shes Fat.. like a Fat Race Car.. with lots of switches to fiddle with.

 

all the other helicopters, you guys bought for an image or an intention.

 

if you want the helo experience. get the HIP