More VRAM helps a lot with DCS VR performance

[RealDCSpilot]

@Gunnars Driver

 

This also maybe interesting for you.

[Gunnars Driver]

@Gunnars Driver

 

This also maybe interesting for you.

 

Yes, Ive noticed it.

Regulary seing close to 11 out of 11. In fact I have reduced settings to lower the VRAM use/allocation and I think it made me see stutter less often.

In missions I sometimes see RAM up to 27-28 Gb.

 

And of course, I see low usage in FS2020 but its not 3D double frames(yet).

[RealDCSpilot]

And of course, I see low usage in FS2020 but its not 3D double frames(yet).

 

Yep, this will be very interesting...

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

Guys please stop posting gpuz screens that only show "ALLOCATED" vram. That says almost nothing about actual usage, and almost nothing about how much Vram you actually need. If you're all buying 3090's because of 'allocated' Vram, well then whoopsie i guess.

I've made a thread asking ED to shed some light on ACTUAL vram usage, but i don't think they even have a clue themselves. Apparently it's not something WE can 'measure', this info needs to come from ED but they don't know either i suspect.

https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/english/reality/pc-hardware-and-related-software/290411-dear-ed-could-you-please-give-us-some-insight-in-vram-usage

[Gunnars Driver]

Guys please stop posting gpuz screens that only show "ALLOCATED" vram. That says almost nothing about actual usage,

 

 

So your thought is that the allocated memory do not have anything to do with the used amount?

I think, as we dont have a better source it is of interrest.

 

If my GPU allocates 9Gb in one game/mission, and 6 or 15 in another game/mission, would it not use about the allocated amount?

 

I know I could get stutter when I increased settings that showed close to 11Gb on my 2080ti and I know the stutter reduced or dissapeared when reducing the settings so I had a better margin. This despite the reports for GPU usage not hitting 100%.

 

I didnt get a higher allocation with the lower adopted settings when changing to the 3090 but when I increase the settings I see usage over 11Gb.

 

Why do we think it allocates only 8 or 9 Gb in some games/servers and 15Gb or so in others?

Are we that sure it never uses more than 11Gb ?

I think it does.

 

After windows 10 Fall creators update a few years back Microsoft said that the reported VRAM in the performance tab is used VRAM.

So you can check there.

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

No we're not sure it doesn't use more than 11GB. That's why i'm desperately trying to get something out of ED on this matter. But they may not even know themselves :( . However, going by allocated memory may not be the wisest. When i play resident evil 2 , crank everything up , the game allocates 15 GB of VRAM . But not a single hickup, and still above 100 fps. There's also no sudden 'drop off' point when i increase VRAM allocation over the 11GB framerate wise.

I just wish ED could tell us a bit more about it, but as it stands now it may be to soon to start recommending a card that's twice as expensive for what could only be a 6-11% increase in the most optimum cases .

In fact, at this point if i had no interest in raytracing/RTX , and was only playing DCS i'd buy an AMD card instead.

Here some microsoft FS :

 

So altough it could well be that the extra Vram actually helps, we're far from sure. I've also seen other people post very different results than yours.

[Gunnars Driver]

Logging in to a certain server is starts with 15.6Gb wich after a few seconds increases to 15.6 and then 15.7Gb. When selecting aircraft the reported VRAM increases to 17.1Gb. This is the Fpsvr values and the performance tab in windows show a little bit more( fpsvr onfly shos the actual thread usage and not all processes of windows. The windows desktop probably accounts for the difference between these two. After a while I se 18.1Gb in fpsvr, increasing steady to 19.3Gb.

You still think the GPU only uses 7Gb or so(this discussion was present when Nvidia increased the VRAM from 8 to 11Gb also, at that times "it never went pass 8Gb). If it uses a lower value, Why on earth would it progressively increase the allocation to 19.3GB ? During this flight, after landing it decreased the reported memory to 17.3-17.5Gb, as seen in the picture. When closing DCS the reported VRAM in the task manager is 2.3Gb, so that add up.

 

Heres a statment refering to microsoft that the performance tab reports the used VRAM and not the allocated: https://www.extremetech.com/computin...reators-update

 

First, last week, we questioned whether the GPU would report total memory requested (which is what tools like GPU-Z do) or actually report total memory utilized. Here’s what Microsoft had to say:

The memory information displayed comes directly from the GPU video memory manager (VidMm) and represents the amount of memory currently in use (not the amount requested). Because these are exposed from VidMm this information is accurate for any application using graphics memory, including DX9, 11, 12, OpenGL, CUDA, etc apps.

 

This might be an interresting read:

You probalby could use GPUView if you dont believe microsoft.

 

[Edit]Bugger! I seem to have moved the fpsvr in the pic below so that the VRAM usage cannot be seen.

 

 

 

[Gunnars Driver]

Here it is directly from microsoft:

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/direc...-task-manager/

 

The data in the Task Manager is gathered directly from VidSch and VidMm. As such, performance data for the GPU is available no matter what API is being used, whether it be Microsoft DirectX API, OpenGL, OpenCL, Vulkan or even proprietary API such as AMD’s Mantle or Nvidia’s CUDA. Further, because VidMm and VidSch are the actual agents making decisions about using GPU resources, the data in the Task Manager will be more accurate than many other utilities, which often do their best to make intelligent guesses since they do not have access to the actual data.

 

 

As I read the article, its clear that used memory is reported. I would also guess that people did read this article or similar and mixed up the text avout allocated memory that really is split DRAM allocated as video memory. The allocated part has nothing to do with the dedicated video RAM we have on hour gaming video cards.

 

What I found after reading and checking in the task manager and fpsvr the reported memory in fpsvr during dcs gaming the amount reported is more or less the same. Fpsvr is clear that the reported valuers for fram times etc only coers the actual thread and that there could be other processes taking more time(ive checked this earlier and there was no deviation for me), so the reported delta between 19.7Gb in the task manager/performance tab and 15.3-15,7Gb is closae to the 2.2-2.4Gb used if I close DCS.

 

My conclusion is that What I read in the fpsvr is at least quite close to the used VRAM.

[tobaschi]

DCS runs butter smooth now. I have even underclocked the 3090 to save power and it runs cold and will serve me for many years. So happy with the 3090.

 

I also have a 3090 but it runs anything else than butter smooth. The F-16 on Syria map with pixel density of 1 runs good (looking left outside the cockpit down on the ground during lowpass). The F-18 on the other hand shows awful microstutter on the ground when i do the same (flying low and lookling left or right outsite the cockpit on the ground).

 

Each increase of the pixel density increases the problem.

 

Index+Syria+F-18+3090 is everything else than smooth.

[flameoutme]

I recently watched a you tube video of the DCS f-16 with fpsVR running with a 3080, and I was amazed at how smooth and clear the image was. It may be that with hi res ground textures turned on would exceed that, but all indications are that it's the power of the GPU that will take DCS far. I for one can't wait to find one and buy one.

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

 

3080 still almost impossible to buy , 3090 is slowly becoming a little available. And i do get the Vram sentiment. I mean i would also rather have 24 GB . But 1000 dollars more, just for the chance it may be a little better in DCS , i can't sell that to myself.

That's why i SO MUCH WANT ED to respond and say something about VRAM usage !!

Because don't get me wrong, i'll ALMOST to go full retard and buy the weird 3090 instead :D

[tobaschi]

[YOUTUBE]

[/YOUTUBE]

 

3080 still almost impossible to buy , 3090 is slowly becoming a little available. And i do get the Vram sentiment. I mean i would also rather have 24 GB . But 1000 dollars more, just for the chance it may be a little better in DCS , i can't sell that to myself.

That's why i SO MUCH WANT ED to respond and say something about VRAM usage !!

Because don't get me wrong, i'll ALMOST to go full retard and buy the weird 3090 instead :D

 

buying a 3090 don't will solve the problem anyway, at least if you fly the F-18 in Syria. With the F-18 + Syria on a 3090 you still get ugly stuttering

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

I can't embed this video, forum is broken

[Gunnars Driver]

 

I also have a 3090 but it runs anything else than butter smooth. The F-16 on Syria map with pixel density of 1 runs good (looking left outside the cockpit down on the ground during lowpass). The F-18 on the other hand shows awful microstutter on the ground when i do the same (flying low and lookling left or right outsite the cockpit on the ground).

 

Each increase of the pixel density increases the problem.

 

Index+Syria+F-18+3090 is everything else than smooth.

 

Probably to high settings for the map/aircraft.

There are a few settings that isnt worth using for VR and also some make about the same effect: choosing the one that use less recources could be a win. One example is Supersampling vs MSAA. MSAA reduces jagged lines but Supersampling also does, plus intease the sharpness of the instrument panel.

Ise too much of both= 5090ti needed.

 

Havent gotten the Syria map (yet?).

I have buttersmooth flights with F-18 in Kaukasus with Reverb, still with the same graphic settings as with the 2080ti. It was smooth before, tuned for 2080ti it of course isnt that hard for the 3090.

 

I recently got the Pimax 8KX and I havent tuned anything yet( still wait on the mighthouses), so using 8KX with these settings is hard on the GPU. With normal FOV(150) it keeps up with the 37.5 fps needed for reprojection but it isnt that smooth if I look to the side at low level high speed. Tuning will be needed.

 

 

 

[Gunnars Driver]

[

 

3080 still almost impossible to buy , 3090 is slowly becoming a little available. And i do get the Vram sentiment. I mean i would also rather have 24 GB

 

Yes, I understand the 3080 shortage doesnt help the ”which to get” issue.

 

To be clear, I dont say anyone absolutely need 24Gb VRAM. Regardless of which GPU we buy we need to tune the settings in DCS. ( Other games might differ. I already had every setting in Asetto Corsa on absolute maximum with the 2080ti).

So we get a new GPU and we tune the game and the system. When done we have smooth gaming. What might differ is the final setting, how high we can tune things.

 

Articles say that the new Ampere GPU( 30X0-series) use VRAM on another way, more effective than Turing/RTX20X0 series.

10Gb in 30X0 series might be better than 11Gb in 20X0, as 3080 is sold with only 10Gb It probably is.

 

For me, Im quite sure that I have been limited in DCS with 11Gb with the HP Reverb and I also had the Pimax 8KX on order. It was quite easy for me to do the choise, as I could afford it.

 

 

 

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

I just want ED to respond and gives us more insight first :mad::mad:

[dburne]

Very interesting discussion.

I have an EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra scheduled for delivery sometime tomorrow afternoon.

I look forward to seeing how it does for me in VR coming from an EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3.

[Gunnars Driver]

I just want ED to respond and gives us more insight first :mad::mad:

 

 

 

How should they respond?

VRAM usage will depend on which VR Headset (resolution), graphics settings and the played game( single or multiplayer, weather etc).

 

I do not think ED follows all thread like this either so I do not think you could expect to get an official answer here.

 

I would say checking in Win10/task manager/performance tab is the best answer you can get.

Advaned users may be able to use GPUView but it wont be as easy to use as lokking in the task manager.

[kevman]

TBH i dont think that 24 Gb Ram will help much with DCS or any game. The reason I bought a 3090 is because I did not want to reduce my ram to below my current 1080ti. The 3080 should have been at least 12gb in my opinion.

Sure I could have waited for the mythical 3080ti but the 3090 came up on NV website for the RRP of $1499 so I was like what the hell. The 3080ti is likely to be a better deal but I am not sure when it will come out plus it will be in strong demand so it could be well into next year before I could get one. Sometimes time (and not waiting) is more important the money.

 

AMD also looks promising but I am locked in with G-sync and decided I dont want to give it up. I plan to make the 3090 last at least 4 years and skip the next gen (so having decent ram is more important). As long as I dont get tempted by higher res displays (currently running index and 3440x 1440) I think this is completely reasonable.

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

 

 

 

How should they respond?

VRAM usage will depend on which VR Headset (resolution), graphics settings and the played game( single or multiplayer, weather etc).

 

I do not think ED follows all thread like this either so I do not think you could expect to get an official answer here.

 

I would say checking in Win10/task manager/performance tab is the best answer you can get.

Advaned users may be able to use GPUView but it wont be as easy to use as lokking in the task manager.

 

They could give ballpark numbers, something, ANYTHING

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

@High TE=Gunnars Driver;n7131022]Logging in to a certain server is starts with 15.6Gb wich after a few seconds increases to 15.6 and then 15.7Gb. When selecting aircraft the reported VRAM increases to 17.1Gb. This is the Fpsvr values and the performance tab in windows show a little bit more( fpsvr onfly shos the actual thread usage and not all processes of windows. The windows desktop probably accounts for the difference between these two. After a while I se 18.1Gb in fpsvr, increasing steady to 19.3Gb.

You still think the GPU only uses 7Gb or so(this discussion was present when Nvidia increased the VRAM from 8 to 11Gb also, at that times "it never went pass 8Gb). If it uses a lower value, Why on earth would it progressively increase the allocation to 19.3GB ? During this flight, after landing it decreased the reported memory to 17.3-17.5Gb, as seen in the picture. When closing DCS the reported VRAM in the task manager is 2.3Gb, so that add up.

 

Heres a statment refering to microsoft that the performance tab reports the used VRAM and not the allocated: https://www.extremetech.com/computin...reators-update

 

 

 

This might be an interresting read:

You probalby could use GPUView if you dont believe microsoft.

 

[Edit]Bugger! I seem to have moved the fpsvr in the pic below so that the VRAM usage cannot be seen.

 

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Hey man i completely missed this post. Thank you for this, i'm going to investigate . :thumb_up:

 

Edit* Well i don't know what is going on at all. 10GB fills up just from entering the game . Then i load a mission , fly around, it stays filled up but never touches the 'shared gpu VRAM' . Meanwhile i'm at 55 fps, with 300% supersampling and 2xmsaa, visibility range extreme, and textures @ high in VR with the Reverb.

If i was struggling with Vram i would suspect less smoothness and lower FPS .

I still think that graph shows allocated by the game, not used. And i think in the task manager bar, the 'allocated' is just the amount of Vram on your card.

 

gpu-z also shows the exact same number as task manager.

 

Multiplayer is even weirder, but i think that has a lot to do with the framerate of the server you play on. Reminds me of ARMA. Everything would be ok after a fresh server restart, then 10 minutes later the server is running at 2 fps, and everybody is having a terrible experience.

 

I wish ED would stop making new modules for a while and just get that new engine out. I'm reliving ARMA nightmares right now.

[Gunnars Driver]

 

They could give ballpark numbers, something, ANYTHING

 

 

 

 

If you did read the microsoft statement i linked to, it stated that the GPU VRAM usage in the perfomance tab is the correct value. The performance tab gets the value from VidMm which is the operative system GPU Video memory handler.

 

The memory information displayed comes directly from the GPU video memory manager (VidMm) and represents the amount of memory currently in use (not the amount requested). Because these are exposed from VidMm this information is accurate for any application using graphics memory, including DX9, 11, 12, OpenGL, CUDA, etc apps.

 

As I said before, theres a lot of misinformation on the net. I guess the use of the term [allocated] comes from people mixing dedicated VRAM with shared DRAM memory.

 

I cant really be more clear about this.

 

As for the OP I also enjoy no stutter when loading missions. Why, I dont know but its really freeing to avoid it.

 

[dburne]

I will be moving from 2080 Ti with 11GB vram to 3090 FTW3 Ultra with 24 GB vram here in the next day or two.

Will be interesting to see how it does in VR for me.

[some1]

About the only way to tell if more VRAM really helps in DCS, would be to test 3080 and 3090 in the same scenario and measure if the performance gain is higher than it should be just from the increased GPU core processing power.

 

Other than that, you're comparing apples to oranges. The difference could be from VRAM size, it could be because of GDDR6X memory on the newer cards, different architecture, clocks etc.

[Eldur]

 

That's actually a sad reality. DCS should not be eating up that much VRAM. Stutter after switching aircrafts suggests memory leak. DCS is not releasing the resource it already used. And more VRAM will of course help but that shouldn't be.

 

That happens on every F coming from F10 already. And well, I knew the OP's thesis already when 2.5 was new and it literally obliterated the 3.5G of my 970 even at the very lowest possible settings (looking almost like Flanker 2.5) on an empty Caucasus miz back then. That card was hopelessly deprecated from one day to the other.

 

And TBH, since the 3090 with a price tag in excess of 2000 (yes, in Europe that is, nVidia geopricing politics just suck) is simply too much for my wallet. I'll be looking for 3080ti/S probably with 16+ GB, hopefully. Or maybe switch sides to REDFOR and get a 6900XT or maybe just a 6800XT. But I'll be getting rid of that 3rd gen bottleneck first.