Bringing it to the next level. Helicopter choice.

[Mr.Scar]

Hey all,

 

I`m back again, with a question. And maybe you will be able to shed some light and help me make my decision.

 

Currently I am flying the Hog (will be around 3 months now, where the last month was the most extensive one)

 

I am having a blast and I love that machine. But what I realized is that it is helicopters that draw me the most, and always had. Read the Chickenhawk by Robert Mason, even in childhood there was a Mi-24D base next to the place where I grew up. And it was always Helis that gave me the most goosebumps on airshows, and not the jets.

 

I currently own the Ka-50 and the Huey, however I am eying the Mi-24P. And because of that, I want to ask, is it worth it getting the Mi-8MTV Magnificent Eight and learn it to prepare for the Mi-24P?

 

I know the basics on Ka-50, I know how to fly it, but mastering it in order to be proficient in combat scenarios is a long way to go. Plus, it does not have the tail rotor, and is basically fully automated. So I do realize I can "teach" me some bad habits, when trying to fly the older helis. Which brings me to the other point

 

Should I instead train in the Huey, and it will be sufficient to prepare for the Mi-24P? Because from what i see it is a fantastic incubator to learn helicopters. Autoration, navigation, countering that dreaded Vortex Ring State and more... or, should I choose the Mi-8MTV2 because from what I have read about the Mi-24P, those two have much more in common when it goes to flight characteristics.

 

My general preference is ground pounding, because I love blowing stuff up, but also dont mind a bit of utility work or troop deployment.

 

As a summary I will tell you, that if we had the AH-64D it would be a no brainer for me. I would fly it all day long and more. But aside from Wags teasing, there are no official announcements yet, so I need to choose from the available options. Also, I think it might be important to note that I do not have any rudder pedals. I use the twist axis on the joy for that, or an axis on my throttle (I have the Thrustmaster 16000 FCS stick and throttle) and it does a good job with the Ka-50 and Huey. But I wonder If it will get the job done, If you convince me to choose the Mi-8MTV2

 

Many thanks for your time and help.

 

Fly safe.

[FragBum]

For me I am waiting on both the Mi-24 and the Kiowa.

 

As for the Mi-8 it's actually a fairly agile bird and given the weight and power IMO makes a fairly good choice if your looking at the Mi-24 when it finally gets released. ;)

 

Having said that the Huey is a blast to fly as well, even if a tad under powered.

 

Vertex ring state, you mean settling with (out enough) power. :lol:

 

The Ka-50 still needs antitorque input, granted it isn't as responsive.

 

my thoughts anyway. :thumbup:

[John C Flett]

I don't have any thoughts on the two as training modules. I do think they are great modules and well worth flying in their own right, possibly my two favourite modules in DCS. I don't think you would go far wrong getting both of them, they have enough character to both be worth flying simply for the pleasure of it.

[Mr.Scar]

For me I am waiting on both the Mi-24 and the Kiowa.

 

As for the Mi-8 it's actually a fairly agile bird and given the weight and power IMO makes a fairly good choice if your looking at the Mi-24 when it finally gets released. ;)

 

Having said that the Huey is a blast to fly as well, even if a tad under powered.

 

Vertex ring state, you mean settling with (out enough) power. :lol:

 

The Ka-50 still needs antitorque input, granted it isn't as responsive.

 

my thoughts anyway. :thumbup:

 

Ah, yes. Forgot about the Kiowa :)

 

Hm, so generally you guys think picking up the Mighty Eight is not a bad idea? You got me really thinking here. I need to make up my decision.

[Art-J]

Mi-24 powerplant and rotor evolved from Mi-8, morover the rotor rotates the same direction - clockwise, with subsequent specific control inputs needed in all phases of flight. Huey "spins" the other way around. So, I'd go with the -8 just to learn the good control habits, which will transfer 1:1 to the -24.

[Fri13]

I want to ask, is it worth it getting the Mi-8MTV Magnificent Eight and learn it to prepare for the Mi-24P?

 

I would say no, if you already know how to fly Huey.

 

Why? Because the most demanding learning experience you can have is to learn handle all three controls simultaneously and in proper order. So you learn to anticipate what you need to do, to do something.

 

And while Huey is lighter, smaller, rotates to other direction and all that, you will not learn the basics so much differently.

 

The Mi-8 would teach you to fly a "larger bird" how to prepare for landings and how it will react to your inputs, but that is more about the things that IMHO you learn faster then with the Mi-24 itself then.

 

The Mi-24 is as well dual-cockpit helicopter so you are not in one cockpit like in Mi-8, and you don't have same learning for start-up procedures etc. So most what you really would get out is the familiarization for the instruments look, with small differences. Why I think you would be already better of just by learning the cockpits by looking the already released WIP screenshots.

 

IMHO, the Mi-8MTv2 is already worth to own by itself. The cooperation with the Mi-24's for assaulting and all is going to be own kind experience.

It is same as in the future when the AH-1 gets out, that you like to pair it with the UH-1H so you have nice pair to fly and experience.

 

But just for learning the Mi-24, and not going to use Mi-8 for anything else, I would say it is not so good idea.

Basically closest for Mi-24 operations you would get with it, is to fly Mi-8 with a two or four rocket pods and then perform high speed attack runs with it. You don't have same 30 mm cannon capability with gunpods, you don't have any ATGM missiles and so on.

[Mr.Scar]

I would say no, if you already know how to fly Huey.

 

Why? Because the most demanding learning experience you can have is to learn handle all three controls simultaneously and in proper order. So you learn to anticipate what you need to do, to do something.

 

And while Huey is lighter, smaller, rotates to other direction and all that, you will not learn the basics so much differently.

 

The Mi-8 would teach you to fly a "larger bird" how to prepare for landings and how it will react to your inputs, but that is more about the things that IMHO you learn faster then with the Mi-24 itself then.

 

The Mi-24 is as well dual-cockpit helicopter so you are not in one cockpit like in Mi-8, and you don't have same learning for start-up procedures etc. So most what you really would get out is the familiarization for the instruments look, with small differences. Why I think you would be already better of just by learning the cockpits by looking the already released WIP screenshots.

 

IMHO, the Mi-8MTv2 is already worth to own by itself. The cooperation with the Mi-24's for assaulting and all is going to be own kind experience.

It is same as in the future when the AH-1 gets out, that you like to pair it with the UH-1H so you have nice pair to fly and experience.

 

But just for learning the Mi-24, and not going to use Mi-8 for anything else, I would say it is not so good idea.

Basically closest for Mi-24 operations you would get with it, is to fly Mi-8 with a two or four rocket pods and then perform high speed attack runs with it. You don't have same 30 mm cannon capability with gunpods, you don't have any ATGM missiles and so on.

 

I still have not made my decision, but you did provide me with some really valid points, and things to think about, so thanks for that.

 

I think you are right, buying the Mi-8 just to prepare for the Mi-24P sounds pointless. Worst thing is, that If I would buy the Mi-8 I might actually like it even more than the Huey and it would mean I would not just buy it to train for the Mi-24P.

 

This is the toughest dilemma. I actually do not know if it will suit me 100% until i jump into the cockpit and try it out myself. I blame myself a bit for not trying it out when It was available to fly for free. I would not have made this post probably. But then again, at that time, DCS was the last thing I was thinking about. Not to mention choppers.

 

I will need to think about it. I will try to fly the Huey for now, but I will read and watch yt with the Mi-8

 

Also last question. If it goes for campaigns (i currently fly only single player) which do you think guys is maybe not the best, but most appealing and content rich if it goes for helicotpers?

[Adam]

All we need is for either the Kiowa or Hind to be released now - and your choice would be made for you. ;)

 

First in is probably going to get my purchase at the moment.

[Mr.Scar]

All we need is for either the Kiowa or Hind to be released now - and your choice would be made for you. ;)

 

First in is probably going to get my purchase at the moment.

 

Also, now that you mentioned it, a thought crossed my mind

 

Mi-8 + Mi-24P = They both supplement each other in combat

 

Kiowa + maybe AH-64? = They both supplement each other too I think

 

This is suspicious ;)

 

I will say even more, we got the Syria map and a lot seems to be a lot going on around helicopters now. Makes you wonder what surprised does ED have hidden away, but my gut tells me there is something more there than meets the eye.

 

But anyway, I think I will stick to the Huey for now. The Mi-8 is tempting and I love to watch how others fly it, and as Art-J mentioned, it would not be a bad idea to jump into the Mighty Eight. But the Huey is great learning platform, Its nimble and I think it can teach everything a heli pilot needs, that then will be more easily transferred to different helis. And I think it is the most fun one to fly. So when flying it, best thing I can do now is wait for the Kiowa and Mi-24P.

 

Thank you all so far for the input. I seem to be leaning more towards the Huey now.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Mr.Scar

[BaD CrC]

Hello Mr Scar.

Most of our pilots waiting for the Mi24 are either training on the ka50 or the Mi8. I would say the Ka50 is great to learn the AH tactics while the Mi8 is great to learn a lot of the Mi24 systems. Ka50 is a more modern, avionics wise, whirlybird than the Mi24P though.

The biggest part when you learn helicopters is more about flying than fighting, unlike the fixed wings that are very simple to fly but offer more complex avionics systems (until we got the Kiowa). A good way to start with flying choppers is with the Huey. It is simple and the FM is good. You will have all the opportunities to learn the many ways an helicopter keeps trying to kill you at any moment of the flight (VRS, settling with power, LTE, dynamic rollover, retreating blade stall, auto rotations, over torque,...). Then you can move to heavier or more complex choppers. I suspect the Mi24 will handle a bit better than the Mi8 while probably not be as agile as the Ka50.

[Mr.Scar]

Hello Mr Scar.

Most of our pilots waiting for the Mi24 are either training on the ka50 or the Mi8. I would say the Ka50 is great to learn the AH tactics while the Mi8 is great to learn a lot of the Mi24 systems. Ka50 is a more modern, avionics wise, whirlybird than the Mi24P though.

The biggest part when you learn helicopters is more about flying than fighting, unlike the fixed wings that are very simple to fly but offer more complex avionics systems (until we got the Kiowa). A good way to start with flying choppers is with the Huey. It is simple and the FM is good. You will have all the opportunities to learn the many ways an helicopter keeps trying to kill you at any moment of the flight (VRS, settling with power, LTE, dynamic rollover, retreating blade stall, auto rotations, over torque,...). Then you can move to heavier or more complex choppers. I suspect the Mi24 will handle a bit better than the Mi8 while probably not be as agile as the Ka50.

 

Totally agree, and the flight mastery part is what I honestly like the most... I do have some experience with the Ka-50. Learned its systems, weapon emplyoment, even done some missions. But at some point while flying the Shark I realized I have been missing something. I mean, the Ka-50 is fantastic, but while flying it I realized I am missing the essential heli flying skills, and depending on the autopilot made me pick up bad habits.

 

I will pick the Huey as my trainer. Will learn it to fly, navigate and train my SA in it. Once I feel confident enough, I will think about my next step. Ka-50, Mi-24P, Kiowa or the Mi-8

 

The decision has been made, thank you very much. Huey it is then :)

[Devil 505]

Scar,

 

You can not go wrong with the HIP. It will help for sure learning how to start her up, familiarize yourself with similar instrumentation, and ESPECIALLY landings. She is a big girl and has a particular way she needs to be handled bringing in. Here is a video of me flying her with the PIMAX 8K the other night. Sorry for the lag if there is any. Cannot wait for ED to get DCS up to speed with a smoother VR experience. However, if you fly in VR, she is awesome. You cannot go wrong owning all the Helo for DCS. Coming from the guy who buys every module they release. LOL.

 

[Mr.Scar]

Scar,

 

You can not go wrong with the HIP. It will help for sure learning how to start her up, familiarize yourself with similar instrumentation, and ESPECIALLY landings. She is a big girl and has a particular way she needs to be handled bringing in. Here is a video of me flying her with the PIMAX 8K the other night. Sorry for the lag if there is any. Cannot wait for ED to get DCS up to speed with a smoother VR experience. However, if you fly in VR, she is awesome. You cannot go wrong owning all the Helo for DCS. Coming from the guy who buys every module they release. LOL.

 

 

Thank you for the advice :) And honestly I have bought the Hip some days ago. I have switched to it after around maybe 20-25h in the Huey. I like the Huey but the Hip is so much more better. Feels much stronger, stable and the biggest difference for now are the landings. I have to really calculate how to approach that spot for landing to avoid a vortex ring, where in the huey everything happens so much faster. Its the weight and size, but I find the Hip much more comfortable to fly. Flying helicopters has become my bread and butter, its just so much more fun than a fixed wing. When i start those rotors it gives me big smile, and the Hip gives one more thing the Huey does not give. That zen. Crusing stable with the window open, and just having time to drink coffe. Last time I had this feeling was when doing space trucking in Elite Dangerous or mining in Eve Online/Star Citizen.

 

The Hip also gave me the answer that I will love the Mi-24P. Cannot wait for it.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Mr.Scar

[Bartacomus]

The Mi8 is my favorite to fly. Its Chunky, its demands and commands respect. Its Hard, probably the hardest module to fly. But it feels good. It flies well. Its very immersive and the sling-loading has made me appreciate DCS on a whole new level. I consider it in my top 4 modules.

1 Warthog

2 Harrier

3 and either the Mirage or the Mighty 8.

 

Its vortex ring effect is horrible, its generators are fidgety, its fire suppression is weak, and its not as nimble as the other copters. But it flies like a cadillac in racing slicks.

 

Funny enough, i HATED the Black Shark. Ive bad mouth the Ka50 for 4 years. But after learning the Hip, and practicing, im back in the Black Shark. And im loving it. Due to the Mi8. I promise you, if you make the Mi8mtv2 work for you.. you will be a monster in the Black Shark.

 

If you want tips dont be afraid to ask. Thats what i love about the DCS community. If you want the Black Shark to pay off, bind your trimmer button (i use it as an autopilot button.. basically an Autopilot bypass. Smash that trimmer switch and it will fly like a Sports Car for you)

 

We are about to have a sale, and a new Mi8 campaign is out supposedly. If you like Helos the Hip is a good'n

[Bartacomus]

Also, anyone reading this. We have to be honest about the Hind. The model we are getting has the side slung gun (this disappointed me, the turret was one of the reasons i wanted the hind. I dont like the BLack Sharks rifle, thats what we are getting in the Hind). The Hind was heavy and its stores are going to be the same as the Helos we already know. It going to Fight like the Black Shark and fly like the Mighty 8. A nice mixture of both.

 

I think what you learn in the Hip is going to greatly influence your time in the Hind. Especially engine management and super heavy loads. Thank goodness ED goes balls to the wall for immersion. Because thats going to be a complicated cockpit, just like the Mi8. Im crossing my fingers for new systems and scopes. Something to set the Hind *Apart* from the mi8 and ka50. The Turret would have done that, but we will see soon enough.

[Devil 505]

I was hoping for the hind to be released this year, but it sounds like from the recent interview a couple days ago with Simon Pearson (ED Business Dev director), it will be out 1st quarter of 2021. According to him, our Christmas present will be the Mosquito. Not complaining at all! It will only be a few months later the Hind will make her grand entrance. They are supposed to announce a few other projects expected for 2022 before the end of the year. Expecting one of those to be the Apache. Looks like next year the big thing on the radar is the Dynamic Campaign and hopefully weather. That is not to say we do not have a lot of amazing things coming from third party devs though. Kiowa should be here soon.

[fatboy]

The MI8 is a great and fun bird in DCS.Especially as it's now 50% off.:thumbup: