jumbo Posted October 6, 2020 Posted October 6, 2020 (edited) Hello there! Accordinng to A1-AV8BB-TAC-050, "When RIPPLE is selected, one aircraft firing pulse fires all rockets with a 40-millisecond interval between departing rockets". In game, I set FF Rocket Fire Mode = Ripple Fire, set QTY=2 with four LAU-68 pods installed. Whith these settings, 14 rockets from two pods should be fired when pickle button is pressed. In fact, 14 rockets are fired from all 4 pods leaving them half-empty. Track file is attached.av8b_ripple_rockets.trk Edited October 22, 2020 by jumbo
RAZBAM_ELMO Posted October 8, 2020 Posted October 8, 2020 Hello there! Accordinng to A1-AV8BB-TAC-050, "When RIPPLE is selected, one aircraft firing pulse fires all rockets with a 40-millisecond interval between departing rockets". In game, I set FF Rocket Fire Mode = Ripple Fire, set QTY=2 with four LAU-68 pods installed. Whith these settings, 38 rockets from two pods should be fired when pickle button is pressed. In fact, 38 rockets are fired from all 4 pods leaving them half-empty. Track file is attached. In the TACMAN does it state that that is from all four pods or just two. AFAIK doctrine is to use two pods at a time. Well do some investigating and inquire with the SME if needed. Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass. — Dave 'Preacher' Pace, USN.
RAZBAM_ELMO Posted October 21, 2020 Posted October 21, 2020 So from the SME "The crew doesn’t physically set the pod, I do." and regarding the ability to set the ripple mode from the team "That is selected on the ME before the mission start, so it is analogous to ground crew physically setting the pod." Also some context of how its done in real life from the SME "In order to ripple fire pods two things must be true. The pod must be physically set to ripple on the back of the pod. You need to enter the right stores code on the stores page, I don’t think you guys simulate this, which is fine, it’s superfluous if you ask Me. The jet only knows the pod is set to ripple because of the stores code you enter. With a ripple pod stores code entered, quantity and multiple works like this: Quantity is the number of pods that will ripple fire their rockets Multiple is how many will fire simultaneously With 4 pods loaded you can enter up to Q4M4 Which I don’t think is actually authorized. There are limitations to how many you can fire at once, 2 at a time is normal for ripple fire If they have 4 pods set to ripple and enters quantity 2, two pods should fire, With Q2M1, two pods will fire sequentially, 1 then the other So with this behaviour, it is as intended in order to simulate restrictions on the amount of rockets fired in a ripple salvo. Moving to resolved under AS INTENDED 1 Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass. — Dave 'Preacher' Pace, USN.
Frederf Posted October 21, 2020 Posted October 21, 2020 This is not correct behavior. There is no restriction as to the number of rockets fired only the number of pods fired simultaneously and this restriction (2 or 4) varies based on pod model. LAUs can be physically configured in two ways: first one rocket per pulse (apple), fire all rockets per pulse (orange). This apples/oranges info is loaded onto the airplane by stores codes (e.g. 45 = 68S, 46 = 68R) and may or may not represent the actual physical configuration If the physical store and the stores code entered are different then some weird (but predictable) stuff can happen. If the LAUs are configured "oranges" then it is physically impossible for less than all rockets to be fired, except for LAU-10 which can apparently not complete the sequence if the pulse isn't long enough. The other LAUs do not mention this behavior. If the LAU is configured apples then one rocket is fired per pulse. The airplane can fire multiple rockets by simply sending multiple pulses. When a LAU which is set to ripple by the switch on the pod receives a single release pulse all of the rockets in that pod will fire regardless. Text below is not necessary but is additional info. When selecting "oranges" rocket launchers the system uses QTY differently. As opposed to "apples" launchers, QTY refers to the quantity of launchers and not the individual rockets. If X pods are loaded then QTY and MULT both have a maximum value of X regardless of how many rockets are in each pod. E.g. QTY 10 MULT 2 is never a valid setting for "oranges" pods because the airplane cannot carry 10 rocket pods at once. The rule that MULT can't exceed QTY applies the same for both "apples" and "oranges." Valid "oranges" settings for LAU-3 (LAU-10 similar) are: QTY1MULT1 19 rockets from one pod QTY2MULT1 19 rockets from one pod followed by 19 rockets from second pod QTY2MULT2 38 rockets from two pods simultaneously QTY3MULT1 19 rockets from one pod followed by 19 rockets from second pod followed by 19 rockets from third pod QTY3MULT2 38 rockets from two pods simultaneously followed by 19 rockets from third pod QTY3MULT3 57 rockets from three pods simultaneously QTY4MULT1 19 rockets from one pod followed by 19 rockets from second pod followed by 19 rockets from third pod followed by 19 rockets from fourth pod QTY4MULT2 38 rockets from two pods simultaneously followed by 38 rockets from two pods simultaneously QTY4MULT3 57 rockets from two pods simultaneously followed by 19 rockets from two pods simultaneously QTY4MULT4 76 rockets from four pods simultaneously Valid "oranges" settings for LAU-61 (similar LAU-68) are: QTY1MULT1 19 rockets from one pod QTY2MULT1 19 rockets from one pod followed by 19 rockets from second pod QTY2MULT2 38 rockets from two pods simultaneously QTY3MULT1 19 rockets from one pod followed by 19 rockets from second pod followed by 19 rockets from third pod QTY3MULT2 38 rockets from two pods simultaneously followed by 19 rockets from third pod QTY4MULT1 19 rockets from one pod followed by 19 rockets from second pod followed by 19 rockets from third pod followed by 19 rockets from fourth pod QTY4MULT2 38 rockets from two pods simultaneously followed by 38 rockets from two pods simultaneously The airplane will fire MULT 3 or 4 for LAU-3 or LAU-10 but not for LAU-61 or LAU-68. For the latter two types only MULT 1 or 2 is selectable. This is true for both "apples" and "oranges" launchers.
RAZBAM_ELMO Posted October 21, 2020 Posted October 21, 2020 This is not correct behavior. There is no restriction as to the number of rockets fired only the number of pods fired simultaneously and this restriction (2 or 4) varies based on pod model. LAUs can be physically configured in two ways: first one rocket per pulse (apple), fire all rockets per pulse (orange). This apples/oranges info is loaded onto the airplane by stores codes (e.g. 45 = 68S, 46 = 68R) and may or may not represent the actual physical configuration If the physical store and the stores code entered are different then some weird (but predictable) stuff can happen. If the LAUs are configured "oranges" then it is physically impossible for less than all rockets to be fired, except for LAU-10 which can apparently not complete the sequence if the pulse isn't long enough. The other LAUs do not mention this behavior. If the LAU is configured apples then one rocket is fired per pulse. The airplane can fire multiple rockets by simply sending multiple pulses. When a LAU which is set to ripple by the switch on the pod receives a single release pulse all of the rockets in that pod will fire regardless. Text below is not necessary but is additional info. When selecting "oranges" rocket launchers the system uses QTY differently. As opposed to "apples" launchers, QTY refers to the quantity of launchers and not the individual rockets. If X pods are loaded then QTY and MULT both have a maximum value of X regardless of how many rockets are in each pod. E.g. QTY 10 MULT 2 is never a valid setting for "oranges" pods because the airplane cannot carry 10 rocket pods at once. The rule that MULT can't exceed QTY applies the same for both "apples" and "oranges." Valid "oranges" settings for LAU-3 (LAU-10 similar) are: QTY1MULT1 19 rockets from one pod QTY2MULT1 19 rockets from one pod followed by 19 rockets from second pod QTY2MULT2 38 rockets from two pods simultaneously QTY3MULT1 19 rockets from one pod followed by 19 rockets from second pod followed by 19 rockets from third pod QTY3MULT2 38 rockets from two pods simultaneously followed by 19 rockets from third pod QTY3MULT3 57 rockets from three pods simultaneously QTY4MULT1 19 rockets from one pod followed by 19 rockets from second pod followed by 19 rockets from third pod followed by 19 rockets from fourth pod QTY4MULT2 38 rockets from two pods simultaneously followed by 38 rockets from two pods simultaneously QTY4MULT3 57 rockets from two pods simultaneously followed by 19 rockets from two pods simultaneously QTY4MULT4 76 rockets from four pods simultaneously Valid "oranges" settings for LAU-61 (similar LAU-68) are: QTY1MULT1 19 rockets from one pod QTY2MULT1 19 rockets from one pod followed by 19 rockets from second pod QTY2MULT2 38 rockets from two pods simultaneously QTY3MULT1 19 rockets from one pod followed by 19 rockets from second pod followed by 19 rockets from third pod QTY3MULT2 38 rockets from two pods simultaneously followed by 19 rockets from third pod QTY4MULT1 19 rockets from one pod followed by 19 rockets from second pod followed by 19 rockets from third pod followed by 19 rockets from fourth pod QTY4MULT2 38 rockets from two pods simultaneously followed by 38 rockets from two pods simultaneously The airplane will fire MULT 3 or 4 for LAU-3 or LAU-10 but not for LAU-61 or LAU-68. For the latter two types only MULT 1 or 2 is selectable. This is true for both "apples" and "oranges" launchers. Right so the dude flying this thing daily and who flew it in combat checks everything out and says yeah that good and correct, leave it as is to be accurate is wrong........LIKE I SAID we are leaving as is to simulate the restrictions one would be under if they flew the actual jet and the limits imposed on them by the USMC. Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass. — Dave 'Preacher' Pace, USN.
Marsvinet Posted October 21, 2020 Posted October 21, 2020 I think both of you glossed over the actual problem. What Jumbo is trying to report is that when he has the pods set to Ripple (The physical switch that should dump all rockets, no exceptions for the -68 as noted by Frederf), even though he has only set two of them to fire via the ACP (QTY-2) and though only one pod at a time (MULT-1), it fires half of each pod, even though that should be A: Physically impossible and B: Is not what was ordered via the ACP. Just watch the track and observe the 68R on the STRS page and the QTY-2, MULT-1 on the ACP, but 3-4 rockets go out of each pod. Shows it clear as day.
Frederf Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 Having half a pod left after firing makes as much sense as having half a bomb left after release.
jumbo Posted October 22, 2020 Author Posted October 22, 2020 So from the SME "The crew doesn’t physically set the pod, I do." and regarding the ability to set the ripple mode from the team "That is selected on the ME before the mission start, so it is analogous to ground crew physically setting the pod." Also some context of how its done in real life from the SME "In order to ripple fire pods two things must be true. The pod must be physically set to ripple on the back of the pod. You need to enter the right stores code on the stores page, I don’t think you guys simulate this, which is fine, it’s superfluous if you ask Me. The jet only knows the pod is set to ripple because of the stores code you enter. With a ripple pod stores code entered, quantity and multiple works like this: Quantity is the number of pods that will ripple fire their rockets Multiple is how many will fire simultaneously With 4 pods loaded you can enter up to Q4M4 Which I don’t think is actually authorized. There are limitations to how many you can fire at once, 2 at a time is normal for ripple fire If they have 4 pods set to ripple and enters quantity 2, two pods should fire, With Q2M1, two pods will fire sequentially, 1 then the other So with this behaviour, it is as intended in order to simulate restrictions on the amount of rockets fired in a ripple salvo. Moving to resolved under AS INTENDED That's definitly I'm talking about: "With Q2M1, two pods will fire sequentially, 1 then the other" - your words. Instead all 4 pods fired at once, disregarding RIPPLE settings in ME and ASCMI settings. Pls review my trackfile - you can see it by your own.
Frederf Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 First a question, 38 rockets? Four launchers carry 28 rockets total. Half of that would be 14. And yes Q2M1 should fire 7 rockets from one pod followed by 7 rockets from another pod for a total of 14. The fired two pods should be empty and the unfired two pods should be full.
jumbo Posted October 22, 2020 Author Posted October 22, 2020 @Frederf Sorry, my bad. Of course I meant 14 rockets of 28 to be fired from 2 pods. Instead 14 rockets are fired from 4 pods, which, I suppose is incorrect. Edited the very first post to avoid futher confussion.
jumbo Posted October 22, 2020 Author Posted October 22, 2020 By the way, just found another issue: whith Rocket Fire Mode = RIPPLE in ME and Q2M2 is set by ASCMI, all 28 rockets from 4 pods are fired at once by one pulse. Need trackfile?
RAZBAM_ELMO Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 By the way, just found another issue: whith Rocket Fire Mode = RIPPLE in ME and Q2M2 is set by ASCMI, all 28 rockets from 4 pods are fired at once by one pulse. Need trackfile? set as a separate bug report. I was in single player last night trying it all out and it was working fine for me. Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass. — Dave 'Preacher' Pace, USN.
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