Get the M2000 or not? (Newbie)

[timetodoit]

Hi guys, I’m on the fence of getting this plane on the next sale. But I’m really new to the game, I did try it in 2016 but not too much.

 

Right now I own the F15 and I’m looking for a A2A plane, I fly mainly multiplayer and I’m still getting wrecked online with the F15.

My question is... should I get the Mirage and will I “get good” in it on multiplayer? Or will I have a worst experience?

 

Thank you

[myHelljumper]

If you want to be competitive in MP the mirage will not help you. Only 4 missiles, small radar, Fox1 only...

[Wagner]

Only 4 missiles, small radar, Fox1 only...

 

 

And that's why it will make you a better fighter ! You may learn a lot of things about BVR :smartass: but, in the other hand, it will often be frustrating against Fox3 trucks... :joystick:

[Rudel_chw]

Right now I own the F15 and I’m looking for a A2A plane, I fly mainly multiplayer and I’m still getting wrecked online with the F15.

My question is... should I get the Mirage and will I “get good” in it on multiplayer? Or will I have a worst experience?

 

The F-15 is the easiest DCS aircraft for MP A2A, so if you want an aircraft that will improve your kill/loss ratio then keep with the F-15 and just practice more and study your gameplay using a tool like Tacview.

 

On the other hand, I really enjoyed the Mirage .. but I fly DCS for different reasons to yours, I love to learn the aircrafts in detail, so the F-15 was too arcade for me, very far from the real aircraft .. but I admit that I don't fly MP.

[Harlikwin]

No.

[Gladman]

its a good module. Depends on your MP. If your in a coop squad then its a good buy, if your just doing MP dogfights by yourself, no.

[ZHeN]

And that's why it will make you a better fighter !

this

 

surviving in Fox3 environment: 1) will bring more satisfaction 2) will bring knowledge on how Fox3 trucks operate 3) will make you develop more sophisticated tactics 4) will boost your situational awareness to the level, which you would never reach in Fox1 environment (and mainly - make you understand it's not the missiles or aircraft that win the fight, but situational awareness and the pilot)

 

currently in DCS Mirage 2000C is simply the king of Fox1 environment - you don't have to be a good pilot in order to win

 

red Fox1s are broken, blue Fox1s are slow

in this scenario you can kill pretty much anything in the Mirage head on, not developing any sophisticated strategies and tactics

Edited October 7, 2020 by ZHeN

[Ramsay]

Right now I own the F15 and I’m looking for a A2A plane, I fly mainly multiplayer and I’m still getting wrecked online with the F15.

 

My question is... should I get the Mirage and will I “get good” in it on multiplayer? Or will I have a worst experience?

 

Both the F-15C and Mirage are good DCS aircraft, however the F-15C is a Fox 3 aircraft and assuming you're vs other Fox 3 aircraft - to use the Fox 1/2 Mirage well, you need to anticipate/understand their tactics and will likely be at a disadvantage i.e. need to use sneak/pop-up tactics.

 

Look at which aircraft are shooting you down, you may find a pattern, OTOH the opposing team/players may just have better teamwork/communication.

 

As newbie/singleton, I suspect you are having trouble with SA, so a data link aircraft like the F-16C or F/A-18C may a better choice to "improve" on the F-15C -

 

• I prefer the A2A work flow and extra power of the F-16C and it's in a state where it's worthwhile in A2A.

 

• The Hornet is an ideal "trainer" but for PvP where perhaps you want to run-in, lob some missiles and runaway, the F-16C may be the better choice.

 

Note that without team work, good SA and tactics, the "better" pilot(s) will always win - no matter what you choose.

 

As newbie you should expect heavy losses, which is ok - provided you can learn from them. Learn to anticipate your enemy and what they'll do i.e. go defensive *before* the missile warning, etc.

 

If you haven't already - Memorise the different missile ranges and how they change with altitude, speed and aspect, test BFM and what works in DCS, etc.

 

If/when frustrated - join a squadron (speed up your training / share the frustration), switch to PvE/A2G or take a break (another module/game).

Edited October 7, 2020 by Ramsay

[gavagai]

Even if it is a WVR fight the F15 is superior because it flies like an arcade game. It can do 12+ g break turns all day without consequence, while the Mirage fbw system will limit you to a little over 9.

 

Good advice from other pilots. Learn anything else and you will get better faster.

[Schmidtfire]

Honestly, get a plane you are interested in. That simple :)

The full fidelity addons are great but require a fair bit of time and study to be enjoyed properly.

So don’t run off and spend a lot of dollars on a plane because it does XYZ best.

 

DCS is not an E-Sport game. Modern Air Combat is in development and will be a title more aimed towards fast combat and competitive multiplayer.

[flameoutme]

I don't play MP, but love the M-2000. So well engineered. So well presented.

[jasonbirder]

It might not make you better in MP...but it is certainly the sweetest A2A plane...in terms of fun to fly, the campaigns available for it and the challenge of being succesful...plus she's also a beauty!

[Kang]

Honestly, get a plane you are interested in. That simple :)

The full fidelity addons are great but require a fair bit of time and study to be enjoyed properly.

So don’t run off and spend a lot of dollars on a plane because it does XYZ best.

 

DCS is not an E-Sport game. Modern Air Combat is in development and will be a title more aimed towards fast combat and competitive multiplayer.

This. The Mirage is a very good module. It's also a great plane, rather unique among the ones available in DCS. If you feel like you might enjoy it, go for it. I haven't got any regrets.

 

If you are mostly interested in getting a plane that is a superior fighting machine... yea, probably not a good idea. The whole fact that you have to actually manage your systems and don't have the semi-automatism of FC3 is going to be trouble.

[Thinder]

It's a very good module and at the way the Falcons guys are crying it is O.P not so bad in M.P either although I do not play M.P yet.

 

Relatively easy to fly, hard to master and you might not get on with it, but if you do you'll love it.

 

F-15 is nice to have, BWR AMRAAM and all but not at the same level than the Mirage in terms of simulation of course, the Mirage is very accurately simulated to the point French Air force uses it for training at Squadron level.

 

Apparently the pilots were surprised at the way it was so precisely simulated.

 

So if you want to buy a good module, don't mind the stupid "competitiveness" you can find at War Gaming, then yes.

 

It's a pilot aircraft, it requires attention to get the best out of it, not a F-18 with 10 AAMs or a F-16 with a huge engine but it can beat them both, like it does in real life (in fact most of the time).

 

Once you're into it, you need to understand how to fly it (angle of attack, lift/drag ratio), that's how you can beat the competition, if you try otherwise, you'll be a Falcon feeder.

https://stormbirds.blog/2018/05/04/razbam-details-unprecedented-with-armee-de-lair/

 

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[kotor633]

Personally, I would save the money for this module. Is for example better placed in an A-10C (II), F-14, Mig-21, JF-17, FA-18C ...

[Thinder]

 

DCS is not an E-Sport game. Modern Air Combat is in development and will be a title more aimed towards fast combat and competitive multiplayer.

 

 

That's why we need a -5F/Mk2 variant, the C systems and weaponry are simply not on par with the F-16 Block 50 and F-18.

 

In real life, the 5F/Mk2 equipped with MICA and new ECM suites are more than a match fore them.

 

As it is, the 2000C is isolated in a category of its own, limited as it is by its combat capabilities.

 

 

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[dundun92]

It depends on how "easy" you want your kills tbh. The Mirage forces you to work for kills but its very doable in PvP, esp vs less experienced pilots in airquake. I can say that if you stick with it you will 100% improve your overall SA and tactics, which you can apply to any aircraft. Its a steeper learning curve than say an F-16, but its no joke in PvP.

[gavagai]

It's a very good module and at the way the Falcons guys are crying it is O.P not so bad in M.P either although I do not play M.P yet.

 

I'm a "Falcon guy" and I don't have any trouble fighting the M2KC with the Viper guns-only/WVR. Anyone who complains doesn't understand the strengths/weaknesses of the two airframes.

 

less than 400 knots M2KC has the advantage

more than 400 knots F16 has the advantage

[jojo]

It’s also a matter of time frame.

 

DCS goes from WW2 to jets with L16, JHMCS + AIM-9X & Fox 3.

 

In the middle we have Fox 1 shooters.

During the Cold War it was mostly Fox 1 (excepted AIM-54 on Tomcat, but Phoenix guidance limitations aren’t simulated yet :music_whistling:)

Until the mid-90’, Fox 3 weren’t very widespread...

[Thinder]

I'm a "Falcon guy" and I don't have any trouble fighting the M2KC with the Viper guns-only/WVR. Anyone who complains doesn't understand the strengths/weaknesses of the two airframes.

 

You're more than a "Falcon guy" to my book, I'm a "Mirage boy" simply because my flying skills are barely enough to handle it despite the fact that I fly it almost exclusively.

 

A few things have been said about the 2000C fewer were justified and if you believe those from Air Forces which flies both the Falcon and Mirage, we also have reasons to complain.

 

You don't see Mirage 2000 players trolling Falcon topics to do that, it says a lot about how they intend to win...

 

 

less than 400 knots M2KC has the advantage

more than 400 knots F16 has the advantage

Not only it is a tad more complicated than that, but it is also false in real life.

 

Your engine and inlet are optimized for Maxh 1.0, and Critical Mach way lower: Withing this zone, its Cd is way higher and thrust is falling real fast in supersonic, and we don't mention the transonic region where the Falcon is aerodynamically limited.

 

What people doesn't take into account are the true characteristics of the Delta wing and it includes lower drag at low AoA, it's about drag and AoA, not absolute turn rates figures.

 

A Mirage 2000 will happily accelerate passed M 2.2 if not throttled down, its physical flight envelop is limited by kynetic heating and safety procedures, not its aerodynamics or engine thrust (Max Mach and Ceiling), M53 flight envelop is M 2.5/65.600 Ft.

 

If the Falcon flight envelop was as representative of the real life as is the case for that of the Mirage, you wouldn't win more often than in real life, meaning at equal skill, the 2000 would win most of the time.

 

In real life, the Falcon is the best multirole, the Mirage the best fighter.

 

 

It’s also a matter of time frame.

 

DCS goes from WW2 to jets with L16, JHMCS + AIM-9X & Fox 3.

 

In the middle we have Fox 1 shooters.

During the Cold War it was mostly Fox 1 (excepted AIM-54 on Tomcat, but Phoenix guidance limitations aren’t simulated yet )

Until the mid-90’, Fox 3 weren’t very widespread...

 

Couldn't be truer, the true equivalent in this game of the F-16 and F-18 would be the -5F.Mk2m a completely different story for those two aircraft to deal with.

 

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Edited October 8, 2020 by Thinder

[gavagai]

Correct. My remarks only apply to DCS and the simulation.

[OnlyforDCS]

A lot of people pushing their aircraft of choice. Which is fine I guess. As a newcomer that's coming form the FC3 F15, I think that the Mirage is an IDEAL plane to transition to.

 

It's systems are fairly simple enough that they can be quickly learned and assimilated. It's radar is very user friendly (IMO much better in that regard than the F15s), it carries a relatively light armament that's very easy to use, it has the best FOX1 in the game, it is FBW and very easy to fly and it is pretty much feature complete.

 

Oh and one more thing, this aircraft is no slouch in multiplayer once you get to grips with it. But it is NOT an air superiority fighter, and is not meant to be used as one. Once you figure that out you can do pretty well even on the airquake servers. Learn to pick your fights, fly with wingmen.

 

I'd say go for it.

[ZHeN]

But it is NOT an air superiority fighter, and is not meant to be used as one.

facts

[myHelljumper]

It did not stop the AdA from pushing it in this rôle ^^.

[jojo]

It did not stop the AdA from pushing it in this rôle ^^.

 

Yes, because nothing else was available :D But it became true with Mirage 2000-5F :thumbup:

 

I would say that indeed it’s a good module to make the transition from FC3 to full fidelity module, because it simple and very handy.

It’s true too that you should fly with wingman in MP, with any module, but even more with Fox 1 shooters.

 

But the question was for a module to make his newbie life easier in MP, I don’t think M-2000C will provide that.

Edited October 8, 2020 by jojo