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Door Gunners not engaging (AGAIN)


Guile

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Hi all!

 

YES this has been addressed, YES it was corrected, but seems like it has broken again.

 

Using the same mission file (Flight of two UH-1H. 1-1( is player, 1-2 is AI), engaging infantry targets.

 

while offline/single player, door gunners from both acft engage targets.

 

load the mission file onto my server (stand alone, same open-beta version). Only the door gunners on 1-2 (AI) engage.

 

check the server logs, effectively 1-1 is not engaging at all. 1-2 is engaging. ROE is set for FREE FIRE at all times. I even cycled to the settings to attempt to correct it.

 

seems the problem only happens in multiplayer. excerpt from the server log is below.

 

2020-10-15 21:38:32.647 INFO NET: client[2] occupied unit 285

2020-10-15 21:38:43.743 INFO Scripting: event:type=birth,t=46953.03,initiatorPilotName=Hawker,initiatorMissionID=285,

2020-10-15 21:38:43.745 INFO Scripting: event:t=46953.03,type=birth,initiatorMissionID=286,

2020-10-15 21:38:47.007 INFO Scripting: event:t=46956.311,type=takeoff,initiatorMissionID=286,

2020-10-15 21:38:48.241 INFO Scripting: event:type=takeoff,t=46957.546,initiatorPilotName=Hawker,initiatorMissionID=285,

2020-10-15 21:39:42.023 INFO Scripting: event:weapon=M134 Minigun,t=47011.34,type=start shooting,initiatorMissionID=286,

2020-10-15 21:39:42.071 INFO Scripting: event:weapon=M134 Minigun,t=47011.38,type=start shooting,initiatorMissionID=286,

2020-10-15 21:39:42.819 INFO Scripting: event:weapon=M134 Minigun,t=47012.13,type=end shooting,initiatorMissionID=286,

2020-10-15 21:39:43.507 INFO Scripting: event:weapon=M134 Minigun,t=47012.82,type=start shooting,initiatorMissionID=286,

 

285 is player, 286 is AI.

 

I would appreciate any suggestions to fiz this issue. Thank you.

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  • ED Team

Hi

 

Can you attach a track replay, bare in mind gunner with 7.62mm will not engage anything they can not penetrate.

 

They seem to be working for me if I am engaging light armour or soft targets

 

thanks

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

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Hi, thanks for the fast response!

 

If you browse through the first post, they are using the minigun to engage infantry. 1-2 (AI) engages, but not 1-1 (Player).

 

This happens only while in multiplayer using the same mission file. During single player both aircraft engage without an issue.

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Interesting. It's during the day, enemy is clearly visible. And only in multiplayer. If I use the same mission file in the mission editor, gunners engage.

 

This issue had been resolved roughly a month ago, but it came back a few days ago. I really hope ED looks into it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just tried flying Mission 6 in the Argo campaign and my door and co pilot gunners are not engaging infantry units in the open with very clear fields of view and slow speeds. They WOULD engage the mortar units that were at max range off to my south, but not infantry units within 200meters of the chopper. Seems like they are busted again.

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It’s absolutely ridiculous how the AI functions. I’ve built this simple mission and the AI are attacking infantry and ACP with M60 door gunners. Rockets and mini guns are not being utilised, I tell a lie, occasionally a rocket maybe fired but that’s probably because the door gunners ran out of ammo.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/english/dcs-world-topics/missions-and-campaigns/104815-uh-1h-missions/page7#post7131170

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Who knows given the frankenstein weapons selection we have for the huey.

 

It looks like an Australian Bushranger except those only had fixed forward firing miniguns on the front pylons. In the Bushranger both pilots can operate the weapons (miniguns and rockets).

But what we have in DCS is actually the UH-1B/C weapon systems. In those the pilot on the left hand seat operates the minigun and the pilots on the right hand seat operates the rockets (he can also operates the miniguns when they are fixed forward)

So there's isnt any answer to the question: How do they do it IRL? because that configuration doesnt exist IRL

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I haven't tested again, but I just learned about the gunner status menu where you have to tell them their ROE. I imagine mine are defaulted to "hold fire" and I simply didn't know I had to change their ROE, so they never engaged.

 

They always default to Weapons Hold. but that was not the issue, they were really having trouble engaging. seems to have been corrected since the last 2 OB updates. Case Closed!

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  • 2 months later...

@Guile Did you ever see this resolved? Did ED ever actually admit that they have an issue and/or are looking into it, or are we stuck with this?

 

I'm also having random issues too on latest stable release (especially on multiplayer servers) where AI gunners will simply not engage at random times. It's frustrating as all heck to be 100ft from enemy units on the ground and the copilot do nothing at all. In the past I had to change to the left hand seat to fire and fly at the same time -not possible at the moment now because multicrew doesn't allow me to switch seats live on slots where multicrew is enabled. 

 

I love the UH-1. I probably have more hours in it now than any other airframe in DCS (I don't know for sure because DCS keeps resetting my logbook when I test out missions and do some Fratricide to test triggers 🙄)  but this issue is beginning to make me want to ditch it because it's pointless getting shot down just because crew won't engage. I can't figure out why they won't engage. I've recycled ROE (as it seems on the odd occasion that helps, but not often). I'm aware that they have issues at night too, but this is daylight, nothing between me and the enemy in front.

 

Sometimes I can rotate the heli 180° when the right hand gunner won't engage and the left hand gunner engages immediately upon turning. Other times the LH and RH are happy to shoot but the copilot gunner seems to go to sleep. I've nicknamed him "Wilson" now... as in "You're useless Wilson!" from the movie Castaway.

 

Copilot seems to be the worst, with RH gunner being the next in line of incompetency. I don't know if that's coincidence, me seeing things that aren't real or if there's something really going on - but the AI gunners truly are useless.

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Yes the copilot definitely is the worst: doesn't do anything at all. I'm doing the UN campaign, and all he does is shouting at me: "Gonzalez: miniguns!" - That's your job, not mine!
In Mission 8 the doorgunners only opened fire when I hovered within 50m of the target. I only got away with it because the Insurgents completely ignored me...

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4 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Yes the copilot definitely is the worst: doesn't do anything at all. I'm doing the UN campaign, and all he does is shouting at me: "Gonzalez: miniguns!" - That's your job, not mine!
In Mission 8 the doorgunners only opened fire when I hovered within 50m of the target. I only got away with it because the Insurgents completely ignored me...

 

Yeah - I haven't been able to figure out what the go is. Some times they engage no problems at all and are quite active.

 

Other times I've noticed the copilot have a fraction of a second shot at a target, doesn't kill and then just waits 10 seconds or more before having another go, again with the smallest of a birst (as though he's accidently 'tapped' the trigger). Then other times, he's in - pouring it on like donkey kong asthough ammo is unlimited.

 

I've been trying my hardest to find a pattern because there's no such thing as true randomness when it comes to computers - but it alludes me. I can return to the same server, same part of the map with units I had a problem with - and it operates differently to before. 

 

One thing I have found that helps a little is to always cycle the ROE on all 3 spots, but even then - it's like a 25% reduction in problems - not a full answer.

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It's definitely the module though, not a problem with DCS itself since doorgunners in the Mi-8 do their job just fine.

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  • 3 months later...

For now, I don't do missions that require AI gunners on MP servers. Troop transport only or maybe rockets if I am feeling daring but I am terrible with rockets. Occasionally the AI gunners will fire on infantry who are blanketing me with tracers from a hundred yards away but not usually.  I seem to remember a year ago the AI gunners were all expert snipers and would shred any soft target within 500 yards.  It felt like cheating to fly low through a mortar battery and watch them wipe out the entire group in one or two passes.  I am glad they nerfed that a bit.  I think the nerf went a bit too far though.

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I tried flying with doorgunners once, then got into a dogfight with a Mi-8. Both gunners would aim at the enemy but didn't shoot. I was holding the heli straight, 90 degrees off him, but the gunner still just looked. This happened in multiplayer, and i never tested it after that, but it surely frustrated me. My gunners also seem to cycle the firing modes on their own, without me pressing anything, which results into copilot flicking the switch from rockets to miniguns, i then fly at the target ready to fire my hydras, can't do it and die.

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I'm still finding this very hit and miss. Some times the gunners seem to be very happy to oblige and spray rounds everwhere - wiping out many ground troops. Other times they refuse to shoot - at all - ever.   Very frustrating. 

 

The only 'trick' I know at the moment is to cycle the ROE for the gunners, which I think may have worked once or twice - but doesn't in the majority of circumstances.

 

It would be very handy to have some more information. Whether gunners get 'target fixated' (ie, if they select a target and they they stay on that target until it's dead - meaning they won't engage another one, and maybe I'm pointing my helicopter in the wrong direction, or have flown to a differnet spot), or whether it's possible to see what the AI gunners are computing with debugging, etc. 

 

Bignewy's asked for a track file which is fair. I unfortunately play on MP servers where trackfiles don't play back correctly so don't think it's going to be of use. I may have to spend some time trying to do single missions to see if I can get it to replicate in those because it seems without us providing track files - this issue won't get resolved. 

 

If anyone else has trackfiles with this occurring - can you please post as many as you have here.

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  • 6 months later...
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