Russian fighter over Georgia?

[Force_Feedback]

Well, I hope Russia will not be saying it's a privately owned Mig-29, because general aviation does not exist there, let alone open air space (approval is always needed from military flight controllers). So, it's a Mig-29 from another dimension or something? :megalol:

[Vekkinho]

I fail to see how you can possibly make such an assumption.

 

Like I said, check egress trajectory in combination with Google maps and read some info on Caucasus based regiments here:

http://aeroweb.lucia.it/rap/RAFAQ/Regiments.html

[D-Scythe]

Like I said, check egress trajectory in combination with Google maps and read some info on Caucasus based regiments here:

http://aeroweb.lucia.it/rap/RAFAQ/Regiments.html

 

Well, for one, how would you even know the MiG-29 "egressed?" Common practice after shooting something down is to sanitize the target area - make sure nothing else is flying. Furthermore, the drone was destroyed prior to egress. In addition, even if the drone did capture the initial egress path of the MiG, the Fulcrum didn't have to make a bee-line to it's home-base - in fact, most egress routes DON'T. Moreover, why would the MiG not land where it took off from? Finally would the MiG (taking into account that it was already airborne with no drop tanks) even have enough fuel to make it all the way back to Krymsk?

 

In conclusion, the MiG might very well have landed at Krymsk/Krasnodar, but in no way can that statement be confirmed or even stated with any reasonable amount of certainty. In fact, such a statement would not even hold up in a discussion of conjecture. Oh, I'm also running out of linker phrases, so I'm gonna stop.

[X-man]

Well, for one, how would you even know the MiG-29 "egressed?" Common practice after shooting something down is to sanitize the target area - make sure nothing else is flying. Furthermore, the drone was destroyed prior to egress. In addition, even if the drone did capture the initial egress path of the MiG, the Fulcrum didn't have to make a bee-line to it's home-base - in fact, most egress routes DON'T. Moreover, why would the MiG not land where it took off from? Finally would the MiG (taking into account that it was already airborne with no drop tanks) even have enough fuel to make it all the way back to Krymsk?

 

In conclusion, the MiG might very well have landed at Krymsk/Krasnodar, but in no way can that statement be confirmed or even stated with any reasonable amount of certainty. In fact, such a statement would not even hold up in a discussion of conjecture. Oh, I'm also running out of linker phrases, so I'm gonna stop.

Clearly, you didnt watch all the videos. In one of them, the georgian Colonel shows Radar recordings on where the Mig took off from Gudauta, flew along the caost, shot the UAV, circled? and then egressed north across the GEO-RUS border...And by the looks of it, it is heading for Majkop-Krasnodar area.

 

Closest MiG-29 base would be north of Krasnodar, in Zernograd (46°50'0.06"N 40°22'46.14"E)

[Vekkinho]

In addition, even if the drone did capture the initial egress path of the MiG, the Fulcrum didn't have to make a bee-line to it's home-base - in fact, most egress routes DON'T.

 

I'm not talking of Drone footage where you can see something similar to MiG-29 (oh yes similar because we assume it was a MiG-29 and noone confirmed it really was so far). Second thing to note is that we assume it's a Russian aircraft cause we saw no red stars, flags and markings to confirm this.

 

I'm talking of the second video that showed Georgian radar screen footage and "MiG's" entire flight over Georgian airspace, check it here:

http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=80724&feedType=VideoRSS&feedName=TopNews&rpc=23&sp=true

 

After seeing that you'll notice that my assumption makes some sense especially knowing that the only MiG-29 Russian regiments in this region are Krymsk, Krasnodar, Zernograd, Armavir and Millerovo. Last 3 being a bit too far for a safe landing.

 

Your assumption of MiG having not enough fuel to land at Krymsk and Krasnodar is based upon MiG-29 performance from LOFC. Try making a mission with a AI MiG-29 taking off from Khersones and landing in Anapa, equip it with 3 fuel tanks and you'll notice it will land there on fumes, but RL MiG-29 ferry range with 3 fuel tanks is in the neighbourhood of 2500km.

 

Combat range of a MiG-29 is some 800km (w/o fuel tanks) and after watching the video from the link I've posted you might conclude that entire distance Fulcrum covered while taking off from Gudauta, spiral climbing over Gudauta, intercepting a drone near town of Anaklia and egressing some 320°NW and landing in Krymsk or Krasnodar is cca 600km. You mentioned that MiG had no external tanks but I assume was fully loaded with internal fuel when it took off, but like I said it's combat range is 800km and entire scenario of my assumption covers slightly over 600km.

[GGTharos]

Is this a MiG-29 or a Su-27? Also, if it is a MiG-29 does anyone know which type? The missile seems to come right off the wingtip - it would be reasonable for the angle to make it look that way if it's one of the 8-pyloned migs, but not a 6-pyloned one, I think.

[Vekkinho]

Clearly, you didnt watch all the videos. In one of them, the georgian Colonel shows Radar recordings on where the Mig took off from Gudauta, flew along the caost, shot the UAV, circled? and then egressed north across the GEO-RUS border...And by the looks of it, it is heading for Majkop-Krasnodar area.

 

Closest MiG-29 base would be north of Krasnodar, in Zernograd (46°50'0.06"N 40°22'46.14"E)

 

Actually I think it took off, spiral climbed, engageded UAV and flew the straight line out of there. UAV is a yellow square flying southbound.

 

You can also see that the range between MiG and UAV is pretty larger than what UAV footage showed, meaning it's got some kick ass lens onboard!

[Vekkinho]

Is this a MiG-29 or a Su-27? Also, if it is a MiG-29 does anyone know which type? The missile seems to come right off the wingtip - it would be reasonable for the angle to make it look that way if it's one of the 8-pyloned migs, but not a 6-pyloned one, I think.

 

 

Like I said few posts above:

where you can see something similar to MiG-29 (oh yes similar because we assume it was a MiG-29 and noone confirmed it really was so far)

[Vekkinho]

BTW is anyone of forum members from that area (Kubansk, Abkhazia, Cherkesiya)?!

[3Sqn_Fudd]

Is this a MiG-29 or a Su-27? Also, if it is a MiG-29 does anyone know which type? The missile seems to come right off the wingtip - it would be reasonable for the angle to make it look that way if it's one of the 8-pyloned migs, but not a 6-pyloned one, I think.

 

This is a question which I was thinking of early GG...

 

At first I thought the pilot may have been giving a little bit of right rudder and trying to go more pure of an aspect on the UAV ... so the relative motion b/w the missile and plane look like the missile is starting out on the outside....but the opposite is the case. The jet is actually drifting to his own left (hence why he crosses the missile smoke trail.)

 

at any rate... I digress...

 

There I think only three theories left...

 

1) The resolution is not good enough to tell...

2) It is a Mig-35 and is new to the area.. would fit an export designation to abkhazia...

3) Wing vortices are immediately pushing the trail to the outer part of the wing...like this

 

http://www.sikunews.com/img/siku/publish/2007/10/mig29-ovt2.jpg

 

Not the same aspect in the picture.... but in the video you can see the pilot is pulling the stick when firing

 

WHo knows... still very interesting video!

[Brit_Radar_Dude]

A slightly more worrying aspect of the radar section of that video is what appears to be a civil airlane just to the West of the engagement zone. Only watched that vid (Groove's post #14) a couple of times, but what kind of distance would folks guess from the engagement zone to that airlane?

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Russia says rebels downed plane

 

BTW, why didn't the UAV operator zoom better on that airplane?

[Pilotasso]

To me it is clear thats a Mig-29, not a Su-27. The plane in the video has smooth wing tips as opposed to the flanker that has missile rails in that location.

 

Furthermore, the nose of the mig is unmistakenably smaller than the Su's. Overall dimentions apears to be small compared to the smoketrail.

[Ender]

I beleive they've (army) got some "hand-made" reasons, why mig flied over gruzian border. and a meaning of a "border" in that area is a little bit dummy - a drone was hit over the sea, and nobody has fixed an aircraft coordinates and confirm that the plane have crossed the border... so just nobody cares about the incedent since there is no evidence.

[bigbelgian]

Its politics and propaganda so we will never know for sure...................

I know who did it...................it was "LUKE SKYWALKER with the X-FIGHTER" under the influence of the Dark Force

 

Here is the evidence.:D:doh:

[Kusch]

OK this is Su-27!!! Please change thread name ;)

 

Beter quality (full screen)

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7358761.stm

[Weta43]

You can also see that the range between MiG and UAV is pretty larger than what UAV footage showed, meaning it's got some kick ass lens onboard!

It can't be that large - there's part of the structure of the UAV in shot & if it were taken with extreme zoom it would appear wide, & move a lot across the shot as the camera pans, but it doesn't ...

[IvanK]

..

[Kuky]

To me the fighter looks like MiG-29, not Su-27. The missile in video had about 3sec travel time and trying same aspect shot in lock on, it takes 3sec travel time for R-73 to hit its target some 1-1.5km ahead.

[Force_Feedback]

The R-73 has a 7700N engine, however, the burn time or specific impulse is never stated :(

 

But we can calculate how fast it was going at the time of impact, problem is, we don't know the launch speed.

 

About using a missile to take out a drone, remember when that Israeli F-16 used a Python-5, in a, almost insane off-aspect shot to take out a Hezbollah drone? How much do you think a Python-5 costs?

[Fox One]

deleted by mod - politics

 

 

I think you have recently watched the movie "Wag the dog" :D

[Vekkinho]

I think you have recently watched the movie "Wag the dog" :D

 

Are U saying it was F-15 :lol:!

 

No of course not, F-15 wouldn't take off from Gudauta but the radar footage starts with the red dot representing bogey straight over Gudauta but this doesn't mean plane actually took off from Gudauta. We can only guess. We haven't seen the everything we should to make some seroius jugdements and conclusions but what if that plane just flew over Gudauta to make it look like it took off from there. and radar footage cropped to the moment the plane was over it. We see no radar footage that shows 5-10 minutes before.

 

This new find by Kusch compromised the MiG-29 theory because it seems the plane in video had parallel vertical fins (just like Flanker has). This might be deceiving because verticals were pretty highlighted in the video so we're unable to clearly say are they really parallel or they just seem taht way. MiG has slightly offset verticals but apart from verticals general shape of the fuselage and engine nacelles of the plane in the video describes Fulcrum. Su-27 has longer LERX and engine nacelles are further back under the fuselage and more spread.

 

All my writing here is just a guess (my opinion and perception), because there's a lot of factors that might change general appearance of that plane. Camera aspect ratio affecting the shape of the plane, lighting affecting appearance of vertical fins etc.

 

Video seems pretty narrow in horizontal aspect something like a 3:3 so the plane in question also seems like it has a small wingspan but is pretty high!

[Vekkinho]

...and discussion in last few posts (#45 thru #53) should be avoided.

 

No politics here please! Move to Times, Pravda or Newsweek Forum!

[Sanakius]

"vekkinho" you are correct, ..i apologize, .. no more, ..

[Vekkinho]

NP Sanakius,

 

We don't want this interesting thread get closed by our moderators just because stupid politics got in the way!

 

Check the title and stick to it!