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[REPORTED]AGM-154 JSOW always off target or simply disappears


Symbiont

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Are you on OB or Stable? After the end of September patch I was getting this behavior with the JSOW A, but after yesterday's OB patch they are now working correctly for me.

 

Edit: I'm playing the newest OB if that wasn't clear

 

I've done several tests yesterday on OB, after updating it with the latest patch (DCS 2.5.6.57264 Open Beta - 04.11.2020). Are your JSOW launches being from closer than about 25nm of the target? As I've posted yesterday, across several tests, all launches from distances greater than 25nm (from 33000ft at speed of 280) miss the target, but all launches closer than 25nm work as intended. Maybe you could quickly try the two possible distances and see if both work as you said?

 

Here is a test I did just a few minutes ago. 2 launches, one miss and one hit, clearly proving that there's a distance-related problem: F18-JSOW-25nm-Test-MISS+HIT.trk

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I won't be able to test until later but I believe I was within 25 miles of the target. I will check to your parameters and reply. Not to go off topic but I believe these and the JDAMs were plagued by likely the same issue if you could also test those.

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Are you on OB or Stable? After the end of September patch I was getting this behavior with the JSOW A, but after yesterday's OB patch they are now working correctly for me.

 

Edit: I'm playing the newest OB if that wasn't clear

 

This has happened before and after the patch. I'm in open beta.

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Hi everyone, I have yet to learn if this is a bug or just an operating error: Whenever I drop a JSOW (both flavors) it either: Drops clusters (A) / explodes © 1-2 km off the target, drops to the ground without doing anything, or simple disappears close above the target. In every case it's way off my target. I also noticed that the missile starts a sudden random bank whenever close to the target area. The target is not moving and there is no AA nearby.

 

I more than triple checked the entire procedure and made sure everything is correctly set, I use TOO mode, use a waypoint I set up as precise, used reasonable height setting for A variant and so on. I have this problem in various missions, either fast missions or multiplayer. I can't figure out what the issue is, watched videos, read the instructions, did everything accordingly. I'm now exhausted and I hope someone can give me a pointer what I'm still doing wrong.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

@Symbiont Can you use the track files I've already uploaded here (F18-JSOW-25nm-Test-MISS+HIT.trk) and the information I've provided a few posts above to proceed with the report? I'm pretty sure I've narrowed down the issue to something that is totally easy to replicate, so they can work on it.

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  • 2 weeks later...
However, I did a lot of tests, and all 154A missiles launched from closer than about 25nm of the target are working perfectly fine, as intended. Note that it apparently depends on speed and altitude, so I'd say anything closer than 23nm to be safe. I've tested now after the 4th/Nov update, so no excuses...

 

[…]

 

Now, as far as I'm aware, the AGM-154A missiles shouldn't have this limit range of about 25nm with the given altitude and speed, so I'm guessing it's a bug? Hopefully the guys from ED can do something with the data I'm providing here.

Please guys, test this range/altitude/speed and let us know if that's, in fact, the issue.

 

I'm seeing the same thing, but the way I've managed to trigger it suggests that it's not a matter of ranger, or at least not just a matter of range. I've seen the same swerving behaviour at as little as 8nm in one test. My suspicion is that it's a matter of time (which in most cases correlate to range in a pretty linear fashion).

 

For one, the range calculations and the display on the SA page are just outright lying at the moment. If I fly low and it tells me that the “in range” limit is 7nm, the missile itself will happily fly out to 2–3 times that and still reliably hit targets. For another, irrespective of range, I see that off-target swerve at roughly the same moment no matter what: when the JSOW pitches up to begin its terminal guidance phase and tries to figure out if it needs to dive or turn to match the attack angle parameters. It does this even if it has no parameters or no angles to conform to.

 

The swerving off target seems to happen if this terminal manoeuvre is started later than 60 seconds into flight. It is as if the missile figures that, oh no, it won't make it given its current energy and location so it goes inert and aims away from the target spot. Except that sometimes during that swerve, it figures out that it can make it after all, turns back onto the target, levels out and hits just fine. There's a range band where that turning away will truly put it off target with no ability to recover so it will just turn away and hit the ground. But anything shorter than that, it will already be in the terminal phase and homing in; any longer than that, it will have enough room (and energy) to manoeuvre back in spite of that initial swerve. And the SA range display and the “in range” cue both completely misidentify the ranges involved. My first thought was that it was a battery issue and it just couldn't stay aloft all the way to the target without running out of juice, but after having seen it recover and hit even at way outside “max range” and even after a full two minutes of flight time, that idea has been written off.

 

So my suggestion for further sleuthing is: when you are able to consistently repeat the behaviour, at what time into flight does it occur? When you are consistently able to make hits, at what time does the terminal phase begin?

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'm experiencing this issue as well; conditions are:

 

  1. Type: 154A
  2. Mode TOO
  3. Release within Range
  4. Alt 30K feet
  5. MSN Heading 000 (also tried using HDG Undefined, same result)
  6. TGT altitude 15 ft (as set by mission editor)
  7. eFuz set to Instant

Behavior is the JSOW will overfly the target, bank hard left and appear to establish a new attack angle. It never succeeds with this, and after the hard bank falls out of the sky. I'm wondering if the weapon thinks it's supposed to be ingressing from a different angle and it severely overcorrecting way too late.

 

Anyone heard any updates on this problem?

 

 

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Have the same issue with current OB (2.5.6.58125), which is easy to reproduce.

  • AGM-154A
  • release @ 30 k ft
  • EFUZ: INST
  • TERM: all default

Result:

flew over the target area and crashed into the ground.

 

Same behaviour occured for me first in the combat mission "Patriot Express" (yesterday).


Edited by AstonMartinDBS

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  • BIGNEWY changed the title to [REPORTED]AGM-154 JSOW always off target or simply disappears
  • ED Team

Thank you for the track replays, it confirms the bug, I have already reported this issue to the team.

 

 

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

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On 12/15/2020 at 8:50 AM, jppsx said:

jsow is totaly broken .

This issue concens to AGM-154A only. The AGM-154C works well AFAIK.

[Modules] A-10C, A-10C II, AH-64D, F-14A/B, F-16C, F/A-18C, FC3, Ka-50, P-51D, UH-1H, CA, SC
[Maps] PG, NTTR, Normandy, Sinai, Syria, TC

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[Checklists] A-10C, F-16C, F/A-18C, AH-64D, Ka-50, UH-1H

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For me JSOW C can be launched when the TMR timer is still at 3 minutes left... Lol.

 

65nm, 30k, 300knots

 

Either the weapon doesn't work well, or the maths for the timer are incorrect.


Edited by Joni

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EDIT: this bug happens at erratic ranges. When launching from 65nm and JSOW A it doesn't happen.


Edited by Joni

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Just now, Gripes323 said:

Manual release?

 

Yes

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So any news if the behavior I described is realistic or not?

 

Thanks.

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Yeh, the LAR calculation for jdam seems also to be broken. I will more investigate on this before to report as a bug.


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On 12/18/2020 at 7:11 PM, Joni said:

So any news if the behavior I described is realistic or not?

Thread is marked as [REPORTED], so it's definitely a bug. Otherwise it would have been marked as [CORRECT AS IS].

[Modules] A-10C, A-10C II, AH-64D, F-14A/B, F-16C, F/A-18C, FC3, Ka-50, P-51D, UH-1H, CA, SC
[Maps] PG, NTTR, Normandy, Sinai, Syria, TC

[OS] Windows 11 Pro
[PC] MSI Pro Z790-A, i9-13900K, 64 GB DDR5-5200, RTX 4090 24 GB GDDR6X, 2 x SSD 990 PRO 2 TB (M.2), Corsair 5000D Airflow, HX1500i, H150i RGB Elite, Acer X28, TM HOTAS Warthog (Grip@WarBRD Base), MS SW FFB2, Thrustmaster TFRP, TrackIR 5 & TrackClip Pro
[Checklists] A-10C, F-16C, F/A-18C, AH-64D, Ka-50, UH-1H

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8 hours ago, AstonMartinDBS said:

Thread is marked as [REPORTED], so it's definitely a bug. Otherwise it would have been marked as [CORRECT AS IS].

 

Dude, the reported bug is a different one, nothing to do with what I said.

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