RichardG Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 From the manual: "LOW: The Harpoon cruises to the target at low (sea skimming) altitude. Low altitude is also known as a sea skimming profile because the Harpoon travels to the target area at very low altitude. While maximum range is reduced, enemy reaction time is also greatly reduced. Cruise altitude is 5,000 feet" This contradicts itself. In game, Harpoon does NOT cruise at low sea skimming altitude. It flies at 5000 feet, or lower if launching aircraft is lower than 5000, until it aquires target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziptie Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 From the manual: "LOW: The Harpoon cruises to the target at low (sea skimming) altitude. Low altitude is also known as a sea skimming profile because the Harpoon travels to the target area at very low altitude. While maximum range is reduced, enemy reaction time is also greatly reduced. Cruise altitude is 5,000 feet" This contradicts itself. In game, Harpoon does NOT cruise at low sea skimming altitude. It flies at 5000 feet, or lower if launching aircraft is lower than 5000, until it aquires target. Isn't there a SKIM flight profile, along with LOW/MED/HIGH? Been quite a bit since I've loaded an AGM84D on the Hornet, and been a bit since I've flown the Hornet, to be fair (thanks to the A10CII) - but I am quite sure there is a SKIM flight profile... Cheers, Ziptie i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardG Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 No. That is TERM...terminal attack profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziptie Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 No. That is TERM...terminal attack profile. Ah, copy that sir. Cheers, Ziptie i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northstar98 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 The Harpoon seems a little off to me, note this is my opinion, I can't find much about it online. Having cruising profiles of 5000 feet and above kinda defeats the point of a sea-skimming anti-ship missile, as higher up, the missile can no longer hide under the RADAR horizon provided by the curvature of the Earth. To me it makes better sense to have the cruising altitude set, and then descend to sea-skimming when at the seeker search distance/HPTP and once acquired and on terminal homing, have the Harpoon do whatever specified terminal manoeuvre. IDK, it just makes more sense to me, rather than the current implementation, though I don't know if the current implementation is inaccurate. Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk. Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas. System: GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV. Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvroLanc Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 The Harpoon seems a little off to me, note this is my opinion, I can't find much about it online. Having cruising profiles of 5000 feet and above kinda defeats the point of a sea-skimming anti-ship missile, as higher up, the missile can no longer hide under the RADAR horizon provided by the curvature of the Earth. To me it makes better sense to have the cruising altitude set, and then descend to sea-skimming when at the seeker search distance/HPTP and once acquired and on terminal homing, have the Harpoon do whichever specified terminal manoeuvre. IDK, it just makes more sense to me, rather than the current implementation, though I don't know if the current implementation is inaccurate. Exactly. This is almost certainly how it's supposed to work. The cruising portion of the flight should end at (the absolute latest) when the search distance is reached, at which point the missile should be at a much lower 'search' altitude. This would only need to be 100-200 feet to give an adequate radar horizon for it's limited seeker. When a target is found the missile should then descend to the sea skimming portion, to end in the TERM profile (remain skimming or pop). It seems that the 'search altitude' is completely ignored by ED's implementation. But common sense implies it's there or a similar mechanism to get the missile lower much further out from the target than it presently does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svend_Dellepude Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 If launched at 500" they will cruise at that altitude regardles of the profile. Not saying what is right and wrong. Just saying that there is a way around it. They still get shot down though. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Win10 64, Asus Maximus VIII Formula, i5 6600K, Geforce 980 GTX Ti, 32 GB Ram, Samsung EVO SSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 They still get shot down though. As they should if fired singularly, as a group they would stand a chance if "sea skimming" but 500 ft AGL is a high easy target for a Missile Frigate. Detail The JF-17 C-802AK has two profiles - top down and sea skimming (50-15 ft AGL), combining the two attack profiles will allow the sea skimmer to get through a CIWS and hit a ship. An attack profile like this isn't available for the F/A-18C / Harpoon, so it seems a waste of effort to try to use Harpoons vs the Neustrashimyy. i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvroLanc Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 If launched at 500" they will cruise at that altitude regardles of the profile. Not saying what is right and wrong. Just saying that there is a way around it. They still get shot down though. The minimum release altitude for the Harpoon should be 2500ft. You get a 'ALT' inhibit warning on the HUD and Stores page if below. DCS might allow drop below this, haven't tried, but it's a cheaty and unauthentic workaround. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svend_Dellepude Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 @Ramsay Even if you equip 4 Harpoons and tick unlimited ammo you still have a hard time even scoring a hit against a single destroyer. One Walleye will sink it, but it's a pain to operate. @AvroLanc It's a cheaty workaround for a missile that doesn't work like it supposedly should. :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Win10 64, Asus Maximus VIII Formula, i5 6600K, Geforce 980 GTX Ti, 32 GB Ram, Samsung EVO SSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted October 30, 2020 ED Team Share Posted October 30, 2020 Hi, This is not a bug. LOW is for cruise altitude, it is not the terminal sea skim altitude. Thank you Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 This is not a bug. LOW is for cruise altitude, it is not the terminal sea skim altitude. The problem is the Harpoons only **start** to descend from LOW (5,000 ft) cruise altitude to sea skimming @ ~5 Nm, and a missile cruiser like the Neustrashimyy will start shooting them down at ~6 Nm. To be effective in DCS, the Harpoon likely needs to be at it's terminal sea skim altitude 5-6 Nm from the target, not starting it's descent phase. Other sea skimming ASM start getting shoot down at ~3 Nm (i.e. at half the range of the Harpoon), so it's much easier for them to overwhelm the Neustrashimyy's defences. i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted October 30, 2020 ED Team Share Posted October 30, 2020 The issue for the Harpoon is increasing it's radar range and adjusting RCS of ships, once we have done this it should be a lot better. thanks Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift. Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Hi, This is not a bug. LOW is for cruise altitude, it is not the terminal sea skim altitude. Thank you Low is the cruise altitude when the terminal is pop, when the terminal is skim it is my understanding that it should be skim for the whole flight aside from a brief fly up at search range to acquire. 476th Discord | 476th Website | Swift Youtube Ryzen 5800x, RTX 4070ti, 64GB, Quest 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziptie Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 when the terminal is skim it is my understanding that it should be skim for the whole flight aside from a brief fly up at search range to acquire. Same here. I must have been reading about a Harpoon that is different than the one in DCS.....? :book: Cheers, Ziptie i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted October 31, 2020 ED Team Share Posted October 31, 2020 The reply I have given is direct from the team. thanks Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardG Posted October 31, 2020 Author Share Posted October 31, 2020 The boys at Dekka have an 802 ASM that behaves correctly. Talk to them. The missile should skim at 30 feet, from any range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExNusquam Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 (edited) Resurrecting this thread, per standard aircraft characteristics for the AGM-84A, a declassified document from 1974, Harpoon should cruise at 50-200' before executing it's terminal maneuver. http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/AGM-84A_Harpoon_SAC_-_August_1974.pdf Edited May 22, 2021 by ExNusquam 1 2 476th vFG/510th vFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted May 22, 2021 ED Team Share Posted May 22, 2021 thanks I will pass to the team. 1 Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcoud Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 Hi @BIGNEWY, another point is that AI fired harpoons are actually skimming at 49 ft from quite a distance while player fired ones are not. (Currently playing liberation with friends and attacking ships together with AI flights: our harpoons are always engaged sooner than AI ones (because ours are higher) and never get through, while some AI harpoons, skimming at 50ft manage to get through) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagrum Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 (edited) On 10/30/2020 at 10:42 PM, BIGNEWY said: The issue for the Harpoon is increasing it's radar range and adjusting RCS of ships, once we have done this it should be a lot better. thanks @BIGNEWY, this has not happened, yet, correct? The flight phases just make no sense. In RB/L the missile cruises all the way to the designated target. Then it either "sees" the ship and tries to dive at ~90° at it and therefore completely ignoring the TERM settings, or it just overflys it. Seems, the missile only enters search mode just right on top of the target point. And in BOL, it always goes down to 150... ish ft right away and sea skims acording to the BRG to the target and thus ignoring the set cruise altitude altogether. Then it often actually does perform the TERM maneuver. If you then combine all this with HTPT ... and it only gets more complicated. Experimented with all this for several hours now, but I am still not yet able to tell, what effects different settings then have to the flight profile. It's not fun. Edited October 2, 2021 by Flagrum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rongor Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 I assume this issue is still not cured? Expecting the Harpoon to drop from cruise altitude to sea skimming after seeker achieves target lock still doesn't work a year later. Regardless of seeker range setting, seeker always only acquires at around 5 NM distance to the target. The Harpoon then barely reaches sea skim height upon arrival at the target. The seeker range setting is useless in the current state. Harpoons will follow set cruise altitude and initial heading until arriving the 5 NM range. Defeats the whole sea skimming concept. Randomly I see Harpoons launched by me and other players dropping down to 150 ft cruise altitude initially. I still can't make out on what this behavior is based. On 10/30/2020 at 10:42 PM, BIGNEWY said: The issue for the Harpoon is increasing it's radar range and adjusting RCS of ships, once we have done this it should be a lot better. thanks It would be great to see anything being done about it, eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift. Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 Ive noticed that Harpoons launched from AIs such as a ship, tend to skim at a proper height of 30ft iirc. Then do a nice acquisition pop up before descending back for terminal. 476th Discord | 476th Website | Swift Youtube Ryzen 5800x, RTX 4070ti, 64GB, Quest 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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