Stick Pull Limitation

[[PTF]Ali]

Why there is limitation on pulling stick, When i pull my joystick stick on BF-109 in game, it never pulls stick fully backward on high speed where i want. Is there any way to disable this feature so there is no limitation on pulling stick backward?

[DB 605]

Why there is limitation on pulling stick, When i pull my joystick stick on BF-109 in game, it never pulls stick fully backward on high speed where i want. Is there any way to disable this feature so there is no limitation on pulling stick backward?

 

It's because of the way DCS is modelling the stick forces. Bf 109 was well known for this behaviour at high speeds, stick forces grown so much that pilot can't pull or push stick fully back or front. You have to use trim to be able to recover from high-speed dive for example.

 

Stick forces in DCS 109 are modelled after soviet test trials with G model 109 but some people (like me) believe that current implementation is exaggerated at lower speeds. Most of the test repots mention high stick forces after +550km/h.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/english/dcs-world-war-ii/dcs-bf-109-k-4-kurf%C3%BCrst/200999-bf-109-g-and-further-level-flight-trim-zero-trim-dive-recover-forces-etc

[BlitzPuppet]

I've found that it's almost impossible to dogfight like I used to (Since the 109 was released) since they changed the stick forces. Plane seems noticeably sluggish in flat turns even at 300-400kmh .

[Reflected]

I agree, stick forces seem exaggerated. They're not present on any other warbird but the 109. Even at 3-400 kph It's really hard to make the pane move. As if I was flying a Hornet with really bad flybywire.

[grafspee]

I agree, stick forces seem exaggerated. They're not present on any other warbird but the 109. Even at 3-400 kph It's really hard to make the pane move. As if I was flying a Hornet with really bad flybywire.

 

I agree, even at 300kph it is hard to keep up with unloaded stick in p-47 or p-51, my main issue is the extreme lag in stick movement, max deflection is not a big deal it can be fixed with trim.

[[PTF]Ali]

It feels unrealistic, These guys must introduce some option so we are able to bypass this artificial limiter.

[msalama]

Rather change it to something more realistic instead of bypassing it altogether, i.e. the controls stiffening should only start happening after exceeding 300MPH or thereabouts.

[[PTF]Ali]

I wish they remove this limitation which is more natural similar to other ww2 planes, it feels so awkward and not satisfying. Its artifical limiter which should not exist in this level of simulation. I wish developers get on this case. I guess people will agree with me if we can trade artificial limiter with wing break. which is more natural to be exist in DCS and real life.

[grafspee]

I wish they remove this limitation which is more natural similar to other ww2 planes, it feels so awkward and not satisfying. Its artifical limiter which should not exist in this level of simulation. I wish developers get on this case. I guess people will agree with me if we can trade artificial limiter with wing break. which is more natural to be exist in DCS and real life.

 

Problem is that in bf-109 at high speeds stick forces were so large that you cant brake wing by pulling stick. Compare to P-51 where stick forces are relatively light, pilot was able make abrupt pull ending up with damage to airframe, p-51 manual mention it in dive section.

most ppl think that used stick forces are too strong especially at lower speeds. At 300kph you can see that stick movement is sluggish.

Here you can see stick forces in FW190 which are almost 0 up to very high speed.

[msalama]

should not exist in this level of simulation

 

You're wrong. Biffers were known for needing excessive control forces at high airspeeds and that should definitely exist in DCS as well. As to whether the modelling is correct and realistic as is, is however debatable - and I, for one, don't think it is.

[[PTF]Ali]

 

You're wrong. Biffers were known for needing excessive control forces at high airspeeds and that should definitely exist in DCS as well. As to whether the modelling is correct and realistic as is, is however debatable - and I, for one, don't think it is.

 

How about just give us special option to disable this feature cause out of character you can pull the stick in real life with your joystick but in character in game you are not pulling the stick which making it virtual and artificial. Do you think there must be option on controls like stick limitation override in su27 and mig29. I'm just saying it will add more user experiences like takeoff assistance which is already there etc.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

The thing is when you could pull all the way at every speed it meant people were breaking wings all the time, and the complaint was "the 109 breaks wings so easily". You complain now about the stick forces, but before it was about broken wings, which is better to have?

 

And, to make me clear, I liked the system like it was before, could fully enjoy it because of my stick extension, and never broke a single wing the whole time it was like that :music_whistling: . But it's fine like it is now and you can perfectly fly the thing.

 

S!

[[PTF]Ali]

The thing is when you could pull all the way at every speed it meant people were breaking wings all the time, and the complaint was "the 109 breaks wings so easily". You complain now about the stick forces, but before it was about broken wings, which is better to have?

 

And, to make me clear, I liked the system like it was before, could fully enjoy it because of my stick extension, and never broke a single wing the whole time it was like that :music_whistling: . But it's fine like it is now and you can perfectly fly the thing.

 

S!

 

Do you know wing break exist for all plane in DCS? In the end it is related to pilot skills.

[Art-J]

Not quite. In the end it's more related to stick forces the real plane had and which simulators try to emulate in one way or the other. While some planes with low longitudinal stability had low stick forces and indeed allowed the pilot to overload the structure (Spitfire being famous example with its ~5 lbsF per g gradient in pitch channel), the others did not. Removing stick force limitation, even if optional, would allow virtual pilot to do things the real pilots and planes couldn't.

 

One can argue that our DCS "pilot" sitting in the 109 cockpit might not be strong enough, but removing the limit is only going to another extreme and makes things even less realistic.

[grafspee]

One can argue that our DCS "pilot" sitting in the 109 cockpit might not be strong enough, but removing the limit is only going to another extreme and makes things even less realistic.

 

Agree, removing it, is no solution at all.

 

 

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Yeah, well, tell that to those complaining about the constant broken wings :lol: .

 

S!

[[PTF]Ali]

Well its all about everyone's personal opinions and taste meanwhile every ww2 plane in dcs break wings so. :joystick:

All i purposing is to give us this feature back or give us option in special options in settings to bypass this limiter similar to assistance takeoff kind of option and people who don't like virtual limiter can turn this thing off. Honestly it feels sluggish, unreal and unsatisfying etc stuff :thumbdown:

[BlitzPuppet]

I've owned the 109 since it was first released, and I've never managed to break a wing off from over-G. I did immediately notice the stick pull when I was flying and immediately felt like the plane wasn't as aerobatic as I had remembered as originally felt like it was the easiest out of the 3 luft planes to dogfight with.

[[PTF]Ali]

I've owned the 109 since it was first released, and I've never managed to break a wing off from over-G. I did immediately notice the stick pull when I was flying and immediately felt like the plane wasn't as aerobatic as I had remembered as originally felt like it was the easiest out of the 3 luft planes to dogfight with.

 

Indeed i agree with that, I don't know why people like artificial limiter cause it is easy meanwhile it is also causing problem when we do boom and zooming with 109 it is not going to pull high G at high speed which really sucks.

[iFoxRomeo]

I've owned the 109 since it was first released, and I've never managed to break a wing off from over-G. I did immediately notice the stick pull when I was flying and immediately felt like the plane wasn't as aerobatic as I had remembered as originally felt like it was the easiest out of the 3 luft planes to dogfight with.

 

When it was in EA, there was not force limiter like we have it now. It was possible to break off one or both wings, if you forced it. Unfortunately I didn't record any videos about this.

[BlitzPuppet]

 

When it was in EA, there was not force limiter like we have it now. It was possible to break off one or both wings, if you forced it. Unfortunately I didn't record any videos about this.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it was never possible, I'm just saying that I never managed to pull it off (literally :D). I was always able to keep a balance of stability and agility...but now the whole plane feels sluggish in maneuvers over 300kph.

 

Before the change I always picked the 109 over the 190s due to the 190s loving to enter snap rolls when a wing stalled and not feeling as nice to fly. Post patch I've stuck with the 190s because the 109 just feels neutered.

[grafspee]

 

When it was in EA, there was not force limiter like we have it now. It was possible to break off one or both wings, if you forced it. Unfortunately I didn't record any videos about this.

 

You can break wing off in Bf-109 k4 as well. At least i managed to do it.

[iFoxRomeo]

 

You can break wing off in Bf-109 k4 as well. At least i managed to do it.

 

Show it, or it didn't happen:pilotfly:

[MAD-MM]

 

Show it, or it didn't happen:pilotfly:

 

Put the 109 in a dive, Trim as far back tail heavy as your are able by pushing the Nose down with the Stick and then suddenly pull up..your wings will be happy

[iFoxRomeo]

I was wrong. My memory made me believe the stick forces where weaker when the K4 was released.

I installed DCS 1.2.16. Well I only tried to break the wings. But it behaves similar to the current version. Stick forces seem to be the same.

And it is still possible to break the wings. Probably with time I got a more smooth flightstyle, hence I never broke a wing on the K4 in the last years.