Ignition Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Its difficult but once you do it once, you start to do it everytime. Practice a few minutes everyday. My biggest problem is the altitude since you dont have any reference and its easy to go up/down too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor05121 Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 No it goes into Refueling mode when the A/R door is opened. Okay, yes, "teknikully" it does but for all intents and purpose, its the same gain as T/O LDG which is the point I was making -Alex i9-12900K | RTX3080 | 32GB DDR4 | Water Cooled | Logitech X56 | TrackIR5 | 34" MSI Curved Widescreen 3440x1440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor05121 Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Ok.. I triend AAR for.. maybe 20 hours until now.. and did 1 successful... The test was just going up dand down all the time. Little more thutst, nose goes up, little less, nose come down... then the light gets green after 3 minutes and what happens... 4 - 5 seconds nothing.. then refueling starts and a moment later I am out of position.. start the game from 0 again :( I really like the F-16, but that AAR makes it that I will stop using it anymore... with Hornet or Tomcat, no problems, A-10 works too... What do you have your curves set to? I have mine the same as Chuck's Guide and I did two successful AAR hookups for the first time, I've got maybe 20 hours in the jet. I thought it was one of the easiest "tasks" to handle, and I'm still trying to learn how to land the thing lol -Alex i9-12900K | RTX3080 | 32GB DDR4 | Water Cooled | Logitech X56 | TrackIR5 | 34" MSI Curved Widescreen 3440x1440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBS17 Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Okay, yes, "teknikully" it does but for all intents and purpose, its the same gain as T/O LDG which is the point I was making No its not. It is not the same as the landing mode. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupra Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 I have mine the same as Chuck's Guide and I did two successful AAR hookups for the first time, I've got maybe 20 hours in the jet. Do you have a link to this guide? There are so many videos around.... DCS F-16C Blk. 40/42 :helpsmilie: Candidate - 480th VFS - Cupra | 06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJQCN101 Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 No its not. It is not the same as the landing mode. As someone who knows the actual DFLCS control block diagram, there's no such things as "refueling mode". It just reuses the control law as in take-off/landing gains. There's a switch to determine whether to change the logic: NOTE 1. Switch activates by ANY of the following methods: * LG Handle in DOWN position * Not in Standby Gains && [Fwd or Aft ALT FLAPS Switch in EXTEND position] && qc < 600psf * Not in Standby Gains && [Air Refuel Switch in OPEN position] && qc < 600psf EFM / FCS developer, Deka Ironwork Simulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBS17 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 As someone who knows the actual DFLCS control block diagram, there's no such things as "refueling mode". It just reuses the control law as in take-off/landing gains. There's a switch to determine whether to change the logic: Wrong there is a refueling mode in the FBW and it is not the same as the landing mode. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJQCN101 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Wrong there is a refueling mode in the FBW and it is not the same as the landing mode. Proves nothing unless you studies the actual DFLCS diagram. It is the same logic as the take-off & landing gains. Source: F-16 Digital Flight Control System Functional Block Diagrams. Data obtained from Lt. Bruce Peet, F-16 System Program Office, Wright-Patterson OH. Also in -1: AIR REFUEL Switch: Opens slipway door. Places FLCS in takeoff and landing gains when airspeed is below 400 knots. EFM / FCS developer, Deka Ironwork Simulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contact409 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Wrong there is a refueling mode in the FBW and it is not the same as the landing mode. There is no refueling mode in the FBW. If you think there is a such mode, please point it out on which manual and where it talks about it. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] I9-9900K-Gigabyte 2080Ti Gaming OC, 32G DDR4000 RAM, Track IR5, HOTAS Cougar + über Nxt Hall Sensor Mod, Slaw Device RX Viper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziptie Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Original point of this thread has been long addressed/lost. Now it is just a civilized argument for the most part, but I’d bet it won’t stay this way for long. @BIGNEWY , you should close this and let the “discussion” have it’s own thread, appropriately titled. Cheers, Ziptie i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBS17 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 There is no refueling mode in the FBW. If you think there is a such mode, please point it out on which manual and where it talks about it. It may not mention it in any manual, the FBW has a mode as mentioned and it is not Landing mode. It is something completely different from Landing mode and helps the pilot to inflight refuel. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJQCN101 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 It may not mention it in any manual, the FBW has a mode as mentioned and it is not Landing mode. It is something completely different from Landing mode and helps the pilot to inflight refuel. It is mentioned in both T.O.1F-16CM-1 and the DFLCS control block diagram that it uses take-off & landing gains, the latter of which is used by FLCS engineers and maintainers and may not be known to pilots. I sincerely do not trust any other sources other than engineering sources so could you state your sources or qualifications. I'm very curious to know how it's different from take-off & landing gains in terms of command types, command gradient, feedback types, feedback gains, etc. EFM / FCS developer, Deka Ironwork Simulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F16FLCS-SME Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Being a FLCS maintainer for 3 decades, I never heard of a "refueling mode". There are only "cruise gains" and "take off and landing gains" which FLCS guys call "slow flight". There is also "standby gains" but that is a backup used only in dual air data failures. LJQCN101 is absolutely right. Please state the source for this refueling mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor05121 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Do you have a link to this guide? There are so many videos around.... Literally google "chucks guide F-16". I'm surprised its not more well known on here -Alex i9-12900K | RTX3080 | 32GB DDR4 | Water Cooled | Logitech X56 | TrackIR5 | 34" MSI Curved Widescreen 3440x1440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBS17 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 It is mentioned in both T.O.1F-16CM-1 and the DFLCS control block diagram that it uses take-off & landing gains, the latter of which is used by FLCS engineers and maintainers and may not be known to pilots. I sincerely do not trust any other sources other than engineering sources so could you state your sources or qualifications. I'm very curious to know how it's different from take-off & landing gains in terms of command types, command gradient, feedback types, feedback gains, etc. Landing mode is completely different in the FBW than Refueling Mode. They are 2 very different modes that do completely different things. Perhaps you need to read more manuals. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor05121 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Landing mode is completely different in the FBW than Refueling Mode. They are 2 very different modes that do completely different things. Perhaps you need to read more manuals. What is your source? There are two people here with IRL knowledge on FLCS and quoting manuals saying you are wrong -Alex i9-12900K | RTX3080 | 32GB DDR4 | Water Cooled | Logitech X56 | TrackIR5 | 34" MSI Curved Widescreen 3440x1440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJQCN101 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Landing mode is completely different in the FBW than Refueling Mode. They are 2 very different modes that do completely different things. Perhaps you need to read more manuals. There's no manual that gives a better picture than a control block diagram. The FLCS engineers use the diagram to actually IMPLEMENT the software logic. So there's no better sources, thanks. Again, you proves nothing. EFM / FCS developer, Deka Ironwork Simulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drPhibes Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 What is your source? Just ignore him. Subs is on a reality-free diet, so don't expect any other proof than "god told me". Case in point (in addition to his post history on the forums), check out @ArkangelDaniel1 on twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBS17 Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 What is your source? There are two people here with IRL knowledge on FLCS and quoting manuals saying you are wrong Your friends do not come across as experts in anything. You read your manuals but the reality is that FBW Landing mode is significantly different to In flight refueling.....Just think about it. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBS17 Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Just ignore him. Subs is on a reality-free diet, so don't expect any other proof than "god told me". Case in point (in addition to his post history on the forums), check out @ArkangelDaniel1 on twitter. You read that, and just remember mournfully your happy pills. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJQCN101 Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) Your friends do not come across as experts in anything. You read your manuals but the reality is that FBW Landing mode is significantly different to In flight refueling.....Just think about it. Well I do and so does the F16 FLCS SME at https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/englis...80#post7136080. But clearly you don't. I don't think there's any reason for anyone to continue the talk with someone who won't prove anything and qualified in nothing, while judging others and saying they are wrong. Nobody cares here. Good luck living in your own world. And you don't know jack about F16 FLCS, period. Edited November 14, 2020 by LJQCN101 EFM / FCS developer, Deka Ironwork Simulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contact409 Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 It may not mention it in any manual, the FBW has a mode as mentioned and it is not Landing mode. It is something completely different from Landing mode and helps the pilot to inflight refuel. If it`s not mention in any manual. Then your statment of "FBW has a refuling mode" will be considered as a bogus statment. You believe what you want to believe. But we have F16 SME here and actual FBW FLCS diagram for reference. I think we are pretty sure who`s telling the turth. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] I9-9900K-Gigabyte 2080Ti Gaming OC, 32G DDR4000 RAM, Track IR5, HOTAS Cougar + über Nxt Hall Sensor Mod, Slaw Device RX Viper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBS17 Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 If it`s not mention in any manual. Then your statment of "FBW has a refuling mode" will be considered as a bogus statment. You believe what you want to believe. But we have F16 SME here and actual FBW FLCS diagram for reference. I think we are pretty sure who`s telling the turth. It is actually in a manual, you go and find it along with your armchair expert friends. Have you tried reading the DCS F-16 Manual, it might be in there, you can definitely notice a difference when it is engaged. There is more to that FBW than people realize, it is very, very well modeled in DCS. I doubt very much that you would touch it. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJQCN101 Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 It is actually in a manual, you go and find it along with your armchair expert friends. Have you tried reading the DCS F-16 Manual, it might be in there, you can definitely notice a difference when it is engaged. There is more to that FBW than people realize, it is very, very well modeled in DCS. I doubt very much that you would touch it. Sorry but your beloved DCS F16 Manual also states that: On the right side of the panel is the Air Refuel switch that opens or closes the aerial refueling door on the spine of the aircraft, behind the canopy and sets the flight control gains to take-off-and land. Indeed it's modelled in DCS, but a simple testing of pitch response reveals that it is just take-off and landing gains, working as intended. 1 EFM / FCS developer, Deka Ironwork Simulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor05121 Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Exactly ^^ -Alex i9-12900K | RTX3080 | 32GB DDR4 | Water Cooled | Logitech X56 | TrackIR5 | 34" MSI Curved Widescreen 3440x1440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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