New AMD Radeon 6000 Series, Has Nvidia finally been dethroned?

[Thinder]

We will not agree and look at all those violence in religious dissens, so no need to decide our differing views :-)

 

I am perfectly fine at choosing my own bottlenecks to my liking. The bottlenecks available to me with my hardware I am totally aware of :-)

 

And if all fails I adjust my body :-)

 

Make your mind up, either they exist or they don't, as a matter of science, you're wrong and there is no point trying to pass this conversation for a debate on the merits of religious beliefs, it's technical, well documented and I have no interest in this sort of debate.

 

https://pc-builds.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-pc-bottlenecks/

[BitMaster]

I think you both are perfectly right, just not speaking the same language. For buying a PC I would follow Thinder's POV, once you have it..follow motomouse's POV, you can choose where the bottleneck may occur, "want fps ? scale down LOD and make your CPU the bottleneck" or "YOu like Eyecandy? well, turn up LOD and make the GPU your preferred bottleneck". That's how I read your conversation.

 

Just a matter of how you perceive the words you both wrote ;)

 

;) stay cool & calm

 

BTW, PC's are non religious, maybe evil, but that is about it :)

[LucShep]

If following AMD's benchmarks (see below), then it seems the RX6800XT will be the better choice for someone purchasing a new GPU in the higher end spectrum.

There seems to be a bigger jump in performance from RX6800 to RX6800XT, than there is from RX6800XT to RX6900XT.

So, the RX6800XT seems to be the "best bang for the buck" within the three AMD RDNA2 models. Maybe even overall, if compared to Nvidia's RTX 3080 and 3090.

 

Source: https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-6...hd-benchmarks/

 

 

AMD Radeon RX 6000 Series Gaming Benchmarks at 4K

 

[TABLE=class: tablepress tablepress-id-1346]

[TR=class: row-1 odd]

[TD=class: column-1]Graphics Card[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]GeForce RTX 2080 Ti[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]Radeon RX 6800[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]GeForce RTX 3080[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]Radeon RX 6800 XT[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]GeForce RTX 3090[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]Radeon RX 6900 XT[/TD]

[/TR]

 

[TR=class: row-2 even]

[TD=class: column-1]Battlefield V (Ultra DX11)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]79.8[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]98.1[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]101.3[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]113.1[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]110.7[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]120.5[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: row-3 odd]

[TD=class: column-1]Borderlands 3 (Badass DX12)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]43.5[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]55.2[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]58.2[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]66.2[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]66.0[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]72.5[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: row-4 even]

[TD=class: column-1]COD:MW (Ultra DX12)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]64.3[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]77.3[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]83.9[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]90.9[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]94.6[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]100.2[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: row-5 odd]

[TD=class: column-1]Division 2 (Ultra DX12)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]61.7[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]62.4[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]81.6[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]74.5[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]86.3[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]79.8[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: row-6 even]

[TD=class: column-1]Doom Eternal (Ultra Nightmare Vulkan)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]103.2[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]117.9[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]139.3[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]138.4[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]151.6[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]150.1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: row-7 odd]

[TD=class: column-1]Forza Horizon 4 (Ultra DX12)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]109.4[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]131.8[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]133.6[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]153.1[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]147.1[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]167.3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: row-8 even]

[TD=class: column-1]Gears 5 (Ultra DX12)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]58.9[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]70.3[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]76.5[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]82.6[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]81.9[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]89.7[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: row-9 odd]

[TD=class: column-1]Resident Evil 3 (Ultra DX12)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]89.1[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]101.3[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]120.4[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]117.3[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]132.3[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]127.5[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: row-10 even]

[TD=class: column-1]Shadow of The Tomb Raider (Highest No AA DX12)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]67.8[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]75.6[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]88.1[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]88.0[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]95.9[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]94.8[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: row-11 odd]

[TD=class: column-1]Wolfenstein Youngblood (Mein Leben Vulkan)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]121.9[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]123.3[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]146.3[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]148.6[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]164.9[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]157.5[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

 

 

AMD Radeon RX 6000 Series Gaming Benchmarks at WQHD

 

[TABLE=class: tablepress tablepress-id-1347]

[TR=class: row-1 odd]

[TD=class: column-1]Graphics Card[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]GeForce RTX 2080 Ti[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]Radeon RX 6800[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]GeForce RTX 3080[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]Radeon RX 6800 XT[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]GeForce RTX 3090[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]Radeon RX 6900 XT[/TD]

[/TR]

 

[TR=class: row-2 even]

[TD=class: column-1]Battlefield V (Ultra DX11)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]138.7[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]184[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]169.2[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]199.8[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]180[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]201.8[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: row-3 odd]

[TD=class: column-1]Borderlands 3 (Badass DX12)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]76.7[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]99.4[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]99.9[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]119.8[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]113.5[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]130.0[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: row-4 even]

[TD=class: column-1]COD:MW (Ultra DX12)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]107.3[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]125.1[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]134.9[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]146.7[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]148.4[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]161.1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: row-5 odd]

[TD=class: column-1]Division 2 (Ultra DX12)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]109.2[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]117.7[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]144.6[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]138.4[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]147.0[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]148.0[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: row-6 even]

[TD=class: column-1]Doom Eternal (Ultra Nightmare Vulkan)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]165.9[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]179.6[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]212[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]216.4[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]229.2[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]229.6[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: row-7 odd]

[TD=class: column-1]Forza Horizon 4 (Ultra DX12)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]150.6[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]203.5[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]182[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]230.9[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]190.9[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]236.6[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: row-8 even]

[TD=class: column-1]Gears 5 (Ultra DX12)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]100[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]126.7[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]126.8[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]142.8[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]131.1[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]145[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: row-9 odd]

[TD=class: column-1]Resident Evil 3 (Ultra DX12)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]169.4[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]201.4[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]221.7[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]229.6[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]242.9[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]248.6[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: row-10 even]

[TD=class: column-1]Shadow of The Tomb Raider (Highest No AA DX12)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]123.4[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]130.0[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]152.2[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]154.5[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]161.2[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]165.0[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: row-11 odd]

[TD=class: column-1]Wolfenstein Youngblood (Mein Leben Vulkan)[/TD]

[TD=class: column-2]121.9[/TD]

[TD=class: column-3]123.3[/TD]

[TD=class: column-4]146.3[/TD]

[TD=class: column-5]148.6[/TD]

[TD=class: column-6]164.9[/TD]

[TD=class: column-7]157.5[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[reece146]

The problem with these benchmarks is that other than presenting a general trend they really don't mean anything for a person building a machine to run DCS. By trend I mean they basically present the performance ranking of the hardware sets in a stochastic way... sorta.

 

From what I've seen of the benchmarks that are out there the only one that gives a real indication of the performance in DCS is the MSFS 2020 benchmarks. And by real indication I mean again a trend, not actual FPS of course.

 

I haven't been following the latest benchmarks with the new AMD hardware that closely but in my mind if you were considering the 3080 or 3090 then the 6900XT is making a lot more sense from a performance and cost point of view.

 

The only thing that gives me pause is whether the memory bandwidth of the AMD card will be able to match the NV cards in 4K and/or VR. I don't know if the smart access memory model for CPU+GPU can make up for this. Perhaps since DCS is so CPU bound anyway the lack of memory bandwidth does not translate into a real difference in the FPS one would experience.

 

I guess we'll know more when the real MSFS2020 benchmarks start appearing.

 

At any rate, all these new cards mostly destroy the 2080Ti so we all win regardless of what we settle upon.

 

$0.02

[reece146]

Also, for anyone still considering NVIDIA for your next purchase... WAIT!

 

Rumour mill is spinning overtime saying there will be a "re-mix" of the line with more Cuda cores per model level and more RAM. This is new/after the recent 20GB 3080 rumours were killed.

[Thinder]

 

The only thing that gives me pause is whether the memory bandwidth of the AMD card will be able to match the NV cards in 4K and/or VR. I don't know if the smart access memory model for CPU+GPU can make up for this. Perhaps since DCS is so CPU bound anyway the lack of memory bandwidth does not translate into a real difference in the FPS one would experience.

 

 

Memory Speed 16 Gbps. Max Memory Size 16 GB. Memory Type GDDR6. Memory Interface 256-bit. Memory Bandwidth Up to 512 GB/s for all cards.

https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-6900-xt

 

 

[Wali763]

First off: this discussion IMO mostly is relevant for VR, since for monitor even my 2070Super (like I have) is ok. I "only" have a 1440p monitor, but have usally 80+fps (low in Syria down to 50, highs up to 130+); with a 4K monitor, fps are lower, but still above most peoples requirements and there is also the TrackIR-Stutter anyway.... New gen cards could let me set the rest of my stettings to max, which would make very little difference overall.

 

As for VR (I should get a G2 in the next weeks) Id personally prefer a 16GB-card. As for the 256bit, from what I heard AMD did lot of internal comparisons (with 384/512bit) and that infinitycache came out on top. But right now Id try to run my G2 on my 2070Super, since with the Reverb G1 the experience was quite ok. I only sold it for some other shortcomings, not performance.

 

What seems more interesting to me is that SmartMemoryAccess-thing. May this can help resolve some of the ingame stutters (especially on the G1 I had some occasional, but bad ones) which would make much more difference than going from 45fps (with motions smoothing) to 90fps or 100% to 200% SS for me.

 

And as for features, I dont think RTX is relevant for DCS right now. When its is finally implemented in DCS we will be for sure on nextgen cards already. I dont think, DLSS will be implemented into DCS, so a more general (in the driver) approach of AMD might be more helpful for DCS. But that of course has to come first and also work. And even then it has to work in VR too. As a general approch NVs-drivers might be still better, but Im sure AMD isnt that stupid to develope first-class hardware, to only offer poor software afterwards.

 

Right now, there is an unopended (but secondhand) ASUS RTX3080 quite near to my place on offer for a very reasonable price. Still those 10GB of VRAM keep me off going for it; and also Id like to try the G2 with my current card first also.

 

Nevertheless exciting times right now and I firmly hope, that Nvidias dominance is over, but I also hope, that AMD is not getting dominant too. This can only be good for all of us and meaning competive prices and faster development. Im pretty sure, if AMD would have not posed such a threat do Nvidia, the RTX3000-series would have not turned out that potent.

[Lurker]

Another recent & interesting Leak, only the RX 6800 (non XT version) is mentioned and the benchmark is Tomb Raider, the one thing standing out is how the card appears to beat both the 3070 and the 2080Ti in Ray Tracing, when DLSS is turned off. But even if we disregard the ray-tracing parts (as they do not concern us DCS gamers) the raw power of the 6800 is intriguing.

 

https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-6800-rdna-2-graphics-card-ray-tracing-dxr-benchmarks-leak-out/

[Thinder]

Another recent & interesting Leak, only the RX 6800 (non XT version) is mentioned and the benchmark is Tomb Raider, the one thing standing out is how the card appears to beat both the 3070 and the 2080Ti in Ray Tracing, when DLSS is turned off. But even if we disregard the ray-tracing parts (as they do not concern us DCS gamers) the raw power of the 6800 is intriguing.

 

https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-6...arks-leak-out/

 

I think that to take full advantage of the RX 6000 GPU, one would need to bound them with AMD new GPU, the 9 5900X most probably...

 

But in any case, what is apparent is that even the RX 6800 will cut it at 4K, and if you look at AMD documentation they mention all 3 cards as 4K capable.

https://www.amd.com/en/graphics/amd-...rx-6000-series

 

My next upgrade (looking at end of this month) is the HP Reverb G2, but on the pipeline is a BIOS upgrade for my motherboard (B450 GAMING PLUS MAX) and a 5000 series GPU.

 

Then I'll make my choice of GPU based on performances I'll get from the CPU and my actual 1080Ti 11GB, at that time the full specs of the RX 6000 GPU will be known and I'll be able to compare, note that AMD give their RAM support for DDR 4 3200 which is good for me since it is the RAM I already have fitted to my motherborad, the CPU/GPU Default TDP/TDP will be important, I have above 250w margin but I don't want to push it too much at this level.

 

Ryzen™ 9 5900X Default TDP/TDP is 105W vs 95W for my Ryzen 5 3600X, the RX 6800 has the same as my actual 1080 Ti, but the two other cards require an extra 50W and I'm planning an extra SDD and 32GB of RAM.

[Lurker]

You did not mention what power supply you are using Thinder. AMD recommends a minimum of 650 Watts for it's 6800 (non XT).

[Thinder]

You did not mention what power supply you are using Thinder. AMD recommends a minimum of 650 Watts for it's 6800 (non XT).

 

Corsair TX750M 750W. But I have more upgrades to come after GPU/CPU, SDD and extra RAM, I prefer to keep a good headroom to avoid any PSU issues.

[Cedaway]

Just a general (but tough) question, is the size of the L3 cache relevant for DCS World? I hesitate between the Ryzen 5800x and the 5900x. There is 100MHz of difference but the L3 cache in the later is twice the size...

[Lurker]

 

Corsair TX750M 750W. But I have more upgrades to come after GPU/CPU, SDD and extra RAM, I prefer to keep a good headroom to avoid any PSU issues.

 

You will have 0 problems with that power supply. Even with more ram and an extra SSD.

[Thinder]

 

You will have 0 problems with that power supply. Even with more ram and an extra SSD.

 

As a thumb rule, I prefer to have 25/20% headroom over the maximum output, before fitting a 500GB SDD I had just under 250W available, that's down to below 240 (with those future upgrades) and I have no idea how much the Reverb G2 will use.

 

In any case I know I'll be safe but I'd rather make sure I have a margin.

[Patersonski]

 

As a thumb rule, I prefer to have 25/20% headroom over the maximum output, before fitting a 500GB SDD I had just under 250W available, that's down to below 240 (with those future upgrades) and I have no idea how much the Reverb G2 will use.

 

In any case I know I'll be safe but I'd rather make sure I have a margin.

 

For power, the G2 plugs into the wall, so your math won’t change much when you get it.

[Thinder]

 

For power, the G2 plugs into the wall, so your math won’t change much when you get it.

 

Good to know.

 

Just a general (but tough) question, is the size of the L3 cache relevant for DCS World? I hesitate between the Ryzen 5800x and the 5900x. There is 100MHz of difference but the L3 cache in the later is twice the size...

 

https://www.amd.com/en/press-release...fastest-gaming

[Lurker]

In real world benchmarks, it looks like the 6800XT is mostly behind the 3080RTX. The difference is not big but it is kind of surprising, considering it has more VRAM. It is also not true for most games, which is why I would love to see a proper DCS 6800XT benchmark.